Heavy for caliber for close range shots
#11
Hunter you should save your money and not worry about buying cartridges loaded with premium bullets for whitetails. Standard Winchester or Remington cartridges will do just fine in the 139-150 range.
Heavier bullets in a given caliber tend to be designed with thicker jackets for deeper penetration on larger game. Deer don't need them.
And don't get caught up in the fictional brush bucking theory because it just ain't so. Any, and I mean any bullet will deflect if it hits a twig. In fact I've read the in actuality that faster rotating bullets recover quicker than the so called brush buckers like the 35 Rem etc. But they still deflect and may miss or worse, wound an animal without a recovery.
Heavier bullets in a given caliber tend to be designed with thicker jackets for deeper penetration on larger game. Deer don't need them.
And don't get caught up in the fictional brush bucking theory because it just ain't so. Any, and I mean any bullet will deflect if it hits a twig. In fact I've read the in actuality that faster rotating bullets recover quicker than the so called brush buckers like the 35 Rem etc. But they still deflect and may miss or worse, wound an animal without a recovery.
It also depends on what you hit, I don't shoot if it is a impossible shot, but a little tall grass, a tall green weed or a twig is enough sometimes.
The larger mid velocity calibers most often have heavier bullets, the weight seems to help them deflect less.
I have caught many Deer over the years using the tall grass, that the mower misses, next to a barbed wire fence. They seem to like using it as cover to sneak across open areas. I've shot through a wisp of grass or tall weeds and had some bullets come apart, the Deer ended up looking like I'd used a shotgun. I had one Deer that looked like road kill. It doesn't happen often, but often enough to be a consideration.
It has happened too many times to be fiction. I've also had numerous hole in hole out with no expansion, the majority with heavier bullets. But I sure haven't tried every possible bullet available. I Mostly shoot Core Lokt now, a reasonable compromise IMO.
It is often a compromise and no one bullet is going to perform best in all situations.
Another consideration is what your rifle prefers. Mine prefers a 165- 167 gr pointed boat tail. Yours may like something else.
#12
Hunter you should save your money and not worry about buying cartridges loaded with premium bullets for whitetails. Standard Winchester or Remington cartridges will do just fine in the 139-150 range.
Heavier bullets in a given caliber tend to be designed with thicker jackets for deeper penetration on larger game. Deer don't need them.
And don't get caught up in the fictional brush bucking theory because it just ain't so. Any, and I mean any bullet will deflect if it hits a twig. In fact I've read the in actuality that faster rotating bullets recover quicker than the so called brush buckers like the 35 Rem etc. But they still deflect and may miss or worse, wound an animal without a recovery.
Heavier bullets in a given caliber tend to be designed with thicker jackets for deeper penetration on larger game. Deer don't need them.
And don't get caught up in the fictional brush bucking theory because it just ain't so. Any, and I mean any bullet will deflect if it hits a twig. In fact I've read the in actuality that faster rotating bullets recover quicker than the so called brush buckers like the 35 Rem etc. But they still deflect and may miss or worse, wound an animal without a recovery.
As far as the grass and brush bucking, big and slow bullets like a 30-30 or a .45-70 have a tendency to overcome grass and twigs a bit better than your fast movers. But that is NOT the reason they are called "brush guns". The term brush gun comes from people using a rifle that is shorter, more maneuverable, and you aren't afraid to get it a bit roughed up from traveling through the heavy stuff. It has absolutely nothing to do with the caliber although brush guns are most generally thought of as 30-30, 444, .45-70, 35rem and mostly they are lever actions. Mostly a cheaper cost rifle for use out to 150 or so yards.
#13
There you have it! Your description is exactly why they are called brush guns, short and quick handling, not because they can plow through brush and still be on the mark. I saw a demonstration once on TV where they showed that a lighter faster bullet actually did better shooting through brush than a 30-30 and a .35 Rem. In fact, I would not have shot at all in the situations shown in the demo. I do not believe in shoot and hope or a magic bullet.
#14
I had a little 2 inch sapling that a buck was standing right behind (by right behind I mean like an inch or 2) that my crosshair covered. I shot dead center through that sapling with a 240gr corelockt bullet. (was my .444 marlin) Buck fell over one way, sapling fell over the other Blew through the sapling, still hit right where I was aiming (high shoulder) and took out the spine. Was right at 50 yards. Needless to say I was surprised.
If I had to guess Oldtimr, Id have to say the lighter faster bullet did better because of flatter trajectory so probably flew the path with less contact in the flight path than a rainbow big and slow slug. But if a little one does make contact, especially at the beginning of the speed curve, they have much more chance of going off course or even blowing up. But I agree that choosing a clear shot lane make much more sense that trying to "thread the needle".
If I had to guess Oldtimr, Id have to say the lighter faster bullet did better because of flatter trajectory so probably flew the path with less contact in the flight path than a rainbow big and slow slug. But if a little one does make contact, especially at the beginning of the speed curve, they have much more chance of going off course or even blowing up. But I agree that choosing a clear shot lane make much more sense that trying to "thread the needle".
#15
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,230
I had a twig smaller than a pencil deflect a 300 gr bullet from my 375 H&H mag in Cameroon once. Cost me a huge Western Hartebeest bull. If an elephant gun can be deflected then anything can. After the shot at that bull we saw the twig fall, cut cleanly by the bullet. I knew exactly where I was holding and that bullet never touched a hair on that bull.
Last edited by flags; 04-19-2016 at 04:12 AM. Reason: typo
#18
ANY bullet, no matter the caliber or weight WILL BE DEFLECTED!
If you are familiar with angles and trajectory, you should know that at 2 inches, the deflection will be at a minimum, and still well within the kill zone.
Add a foot or more to that deflection and you have at best a "clean miss," or worse, a wounded animal to track!
No caliber or weight can defy physics! Waiting for a better shot opportunity is the ONLY choice! "It was the opportunity of a lifetime!" Is still a piz-poor excuse for taking an obviously risky shot!
Last edited by JagMagMan; 04-18-2016 at 07:37 PM. Reason: spelling
#19
Therein lies the key super_hunt! (by right behind I mean like an inch or 2)
ANY bullet, no matter the caliber or weight WILL BE DEFLECTED!
If you are familiar with angles and trajectory, you should know that at 2 inches, the deflection will be at a minimum, and still well within the kill zone.
Add a foot or more to that deflection and you have at best a "clean miss," or worse, a wounded animal to track!
No caliber or weight can defy physics! Waiting for a better shot opportunity is the ONLY choice! "It was the opportunity of a lifetime!" Is still a piz-poor excuse for taking an obviously risky shot!
ANY bullet, no matter the caliber or weight WILL BE DEFLECTED!
If you are familiar with angles and trajectory, you should know that at 2 inches, the deflection will be at a minimum, and still well within the kill zone.
Add a foot or more to that deflection and you have at best a "clean miss," or worse, a wounded animal to track!
No caliber or weight can defy physics! Waiting for a better shot opportunity is the ONLY choice! "It was the opportunity of a lifetime!" Is still a piz-poor excuse for taking an obviously risky shot!
#20
Chill a little Super!
The last part of my post was not directed at you personally! Looking at how I wrote it, I can see the implication though, sorry, my bad!
Also, I am not trying to judge anyone for unforeseen accidents, chet happens!
I once accidentally killed 2 deer with my 7MM RM. I waited until the deer in the back was well clear of the front deer. At 150 yards and no downward angle, I shot, killed and recovered the first deer, not realizing that I hit the second one too! A few days later I found the second deer while investigating Buzzards! To this day, I am at a loss to explain exactly how the bullet deflected through deer #1 at such an angle to take out deer #2!
I do despise the intentional taking of risky shots though!
The last part of my post was not directed at you personally! Looking at how I wrote it, I can see the implication though, sorry, my bad!
Also, I am not trying to judge anyone for unforeseen accidents, chet happens!
I once accidentally killed 2 deer with my 7MM RM. I waited until the deer in the back was well clear of the front deer. At 150 yards and no downward angle, I shot, killed and recovered the first deer, not realizing that I hit the second one too! A few days later I found the second deer while investigating Buzzards! To this day, I am at a loss to explain exactly how the bullet deflected through deer #1 at such an angle to take out deer #2!
I do despise the intentional taking of risky shots though!