New One On Me !!
 

Thought some of you folks might get a kick out of this one. I have been at this deer hunting thing for 50+ years and never seen anything like this behavior.

Thursday morning I was easing into my stand well before daylight, walking in as quietly as I could manage and into the soft breeze. The area was loaded with scrapes and rubs, and has been a good area to hunt for many years. About 100 yards from where I had put my climber two days before, my head light caught "eyes" and the silouette of a big bodied deer. Would look away and then back. Did this for a least 30 seconds, which seemed like minutes! So I reached into my bocket for a compact but high intensity flashlight just to get a better look. "Spotted"' the deer, not yet knowing what it was for sure ..... what a man! Fat, thick body and a head full of antler.

Well I expected this buck to bolt anytime, but instead it stayed right there and worked a scrape 2 more times, stopping breifly to look back at me every now and then. He urinated in the scrape, hookled branches above and eased off into the woods. I was about 60 - 70 yards from the buck, standing stone still and down wind.

What got me is this was a mature buck and I did not expect it to dilly-dally around while I was so close. I may have screwed up "spotting it", but I am going to hunt that area a few more times for sure. Maybe he'll come though pushing a doe when the strus heats up.

think back..........remember when you use to horn the brush so to speak, that's where he was, good thing you didn't have tinks 69 on your boots or you would have a story you could never tell without losing your man card
RR

Had you done that in my state while in possession of a gun or bow, you would have been in violation of the law.

:bash: ^^^

Deer do some goofy things during the rut. About 10 years ago while archery hunting I had used a drag line on the way into my stand. On the way out after dark ran into a buck following the trail. And he just refused to move. I shooed him, whistled, talked, stomped feet, finally he left reluctantly. Thankfully he didn't decide to fight or mount me.
-Jake

Yep, lucky you didn't bend over to tie your boots.:D

No he absolutely would NOT have been. It is unlawful to FIRE on a lit up animal. Not to light them up while walking in. If that were the case every single one of us on this forum would have violated the law by walking in to our stands with a flashlight. That's EVERY state not just PA. I've lit up hundreds of deer over the years walking in and out of stands. Not a thing illegal about it and if a GCO tries to ticket you for it then he would be in for a hell of a ride in a courtroom.

Do not presume to know the laws in PA better than I do. It is one thing to accidentally shine on a deer with a headlamp when walking into your stand. It is quite another to pull out a flashlight and intentionally shine the deer when in possession of a gun or bow, that my man is illegal, and intentionally shining deer while in possession of a firearm in PA is a serious charge and not really hard to prosecute in my experience. So before you talk in absolutes, you really should know the law. Just so I won't have to spend all evening arguing with you:

§ 2310. Unlawful use of lights while hunting.
(a) General rule.--Except as set forth in subsection (b), it
is unlawful for any person or group of persons to engage in any
of the following activities to any degree:
(1) Cast the rays of an artificial light of any kind on
any game or wildlife or in an attempt to locate any game or
wildlife while on foot, in any vehicle or its attachments, or
any watercraft or any airborne craft while in possession of a
firearm of any kind, or a bow or arrow, or any implement or
device with which any game or wildlife could be killed or
taken even though no game or wildlife is shot at, injured or
killed.

Same in Vt. Shine a light in a field at night to "spot deer" and you get pinched. People have been written up just pulling into a field access road casting lights on a deer briefly and then backing out. If the warden is watching you are guilty of spotlighting a field at night and having a gun in the vehicle isn't necessary for the ticket..

"Mens Rea" folks. Look it up. Was it illegal, sure. Did it matter in this situation? Not a bit.
-Jake

I don't need to look it up, I prosecuted those kinds of cases in fact I prosecuted about 3,000 Game Code cases and it is illegal no matter how you try to make it not illegal. It is illegal to intentionally shine a light on big game while possessing a bow or firearm When you have prosecuted as many game code cases as I have, then try to tell me what the law says and how it is prosecuted. Was the op's first encounter with the buck accidental, yes, was it intentional when he pulled out a flashlight and continued to watch the deer while in possession of a weapon? Yes. What you don't know about the PA Game Code is that it is a strict liability law, look that up! Strict liability means that there need to be no intent to violate the law, all you have to do is violate the law, therefore mens rea doesn't apply.

what was your official job title?
RR

Wildlife conservation officer, what was yours? Do You know perhaps Lt Col Bill Daniel or Col Jim Fields both retired from WV DEP?

not blowing smoke about all my procecutins, all you did was presented evidence correct? did you ever slant it in anyway to try and insure a conviction? careful, eyes are on this
RR

Sometimes, Oldtimr. The best thing to say, is wow. Interesting.
Not go off half-cocked. Especially when your not a LEO, any longer.

RR, what kind of crap is that? In PA a WCO prosecutes cases at the Minor judiciary level themselves, at the county court level a DA does it. I don't know what you are getting at. I made a statement that shining a flashlight on a deer while in possession of a weapon is illegal in PA, I posted the law that says so. I don't have to prove a damn thing to you or anyone else, if you don't believe it, come to PA and run around in the dark and shine deer with a weapon in your possession until you get caught, I am sure the judge and a WCO will be more than happy to prove it to you. And Sonnyhunter, I never go off half cocked and it matters not if I am still an active WCO, the law has not changed since I retired and I didn't forget almost 33 years worth of experience and I stated a matter of fact so perhaps someone else will not get caught doing the same thing in PA and get prosecuted and pay a big fine. The problem here is some people who think they know the law decided to run off at the fingers and they were wrong and made a big deal out of something that wasn't a big deal.

I was walking into a high seat at zero dark thirty, hear this crashing sound and fired up my flashlight. A third year old Red Deer Buck was raising a ruckus. He decided I was his new play toy. Thankfully I was in a stand of Pine that was about half mature and hadn't been thinned yet. Seems like forever I was dodging around Pine trees and trying to keep trees between me and him. It went on for a long time, best guess is 3/4 of an hour. I was getting a little panicky and huffing like a steam engine after awhile. I never really did figure out if he was playing or looking for trouble or both. It was more like hide and seek than a serious sort of thing.

Now that i know the law, the next time I'll turn out my light and play that game in the dark. :)

No disrespect OT. The point, is this. You're on a hunting forum. Sitting at home, on a computer. On a hunting forum. You're retired. Enjoy the story. Say "wow, neat experience." If you enjoyed the chase that much you shouldn't have retired. I clearly stated it was illegal. And I clearly stated that it didn't matter. You're not going to prosecute him. So the only thing you're doing is looking for a forum fight. We don't need that here. Appreciate the story and say so, or move on.
-Jake

Mudderchuck, exactly. My guess is 99% of people would have kept the light on that deer. And the 1% that wouldn't are probably lying.
-Jake

No Boca, I wasn't loking for a fight, I made a simple statement and someone cames along and says it is absolutely wrong, it was not, then you came along and say it doesn't matter because of mens rea, that is not true. If you read the law I posted it says exactly what I said, it is unlawful to intentionally shine a light on big game while in possession, not to accidentally do it, the first time was accidental, the 2nd time intentional. And these things are prosecuted in PA if seen. I made the statement so people know it and don't find themselves in trouble and I won't be told I am wrong if I am not, hence the argument.

reckon pa doesn't mention officers discretion in their laws, so on your way to your stand before first light, you hear something big moving in the leaves, put your light on it to identify it, if its a deer, and the wco is there you get a citation, sounds reasonable to me
RR

I clearly stated it was illegal(I've said that a few times now). Mens rea speaks on the intent of the crime. As an officer you are, or at least should be, capable at looking at intent and acting accordingly. As an officer, if I saw this happen, it gives me an opportunity to stop and speak with the individual and check things over. Me personally, if I find no other violation, then I say "Just so you know shining a deer like that is illegal, here's why, now you know. Have a nice day, and good luck."
Neither of us need lectured on these things, we both know them. My point is this. You're in an internet forum. You're at home on your computer. You are typically the first to jump all over someone calling them illegal. Including times when nothing was illegal (I believe we've had this conversation previously as well) because you assumed something. Sit back, relax, enjoy the forum, and give hunting advice because I know you've got allot of it to give.
And you're correct your first statement was just making it known that the action could potentially be a violation depending on what state you're in and somebody wrongfully said it wasn't. I see that you were just defending your correct statement. But again, internet forum, we're not in the field here.
-Jake

All points well taken. Here in Vt there is no spotlighting at any time whether a weapon is on the scene or not. Most of our wardens will write up someone who is shining for the purpose of spotting wildlife. Good post Jake and thanks for OT's bringing the law into the discussion. No need to argue since the law is pretty clear.

Well ... kicked up quiet a stir! I had no intention of doing so. Just intended to relate what I thought was some unusual activity. Why he did not spook?

And yep, even though the deer was already "lit up" unintentionally with a low intensity light beam, I never thought about that using a bit stronger , though mini flash light, to see what it was would converting to "intentional". Good critique. I'll be more careful in the future.

Mojo, I've been up close and personal to deer in the dark plenty of times, I think they just seem more secure then...

Many times, I've had deer around my stand when I wanted to climb down but didn't want to spook them so I would stay up until an hour or two after sundown...It was amazing how much more vocal they were too, after dark... :)

I can see why the early settlers used a canoe and torch to kill game, it would be pretty efficient...

This makes me wonder how Wisconsin, can allow night hunting for deer. Wisconsin just passed it for tribal members, starting NOV. 1 this year. I have heard that Minnesota and possibly two others have similar laws. But I don't recall which ones they were.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/332594042.html

Wow, thanks for the article sconnyhunter, i heard rumors about the Chippewa deer night hunt but didn't know it all ready began. It sounds like a dangerous and unethical federal ruling to me.

Your Welcome.

It is dangerous. :fighting0007:
Of the five caveats that the DNR asked for. Only one was accepted by the court.
That of having an earthen back stop with 125 yrds of the shooter.
The other 4 items the DNR asked for were, as follows.
*prior notification of activities in a given area
*pre-scout an area in proximity to a hunting activity
* that night hunters be rewuired to use a spotter
*that tribal hunters start after the 9 day deer hunt.
The WON has an article as well in the Oct. 30 issue. Starting on the front page, and continuing later.

What this boils down to is special privileges for a special class of people.
I think its time to reconsider the treaties that were signed, and abolish them.

Back to the original question posted by Mojo. A couple of years ago I had a buck chasing a doe right past my stand. I called to him several times to try and get him to stop for a shot but he totally ignored me completely focused on following the doe. Finally found an opening and fired. He reared up on his hind legs ran about 30 yards and stopped trying to figure out where the doe had run off to. My second shot dropped him in his tracks. When I went up to him I only found the second shot. I back tracked to where he had been when I shot the first time and found a branch had deflected the bullet only showering him with bullet and wood fragments. Still, he was so focused on staying with the doe that he completely disregarded being shot at.

When the bucks are letting the little head do the thinking for the big head nothing else matters. I'd definitely go back to the spot and give it a shot just be very careful moving into your stand.