question for all members
11-22-2015, 06:02 PM
#61
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eastern wv
Posts: 3,646
wow, the6.5 being marginal went straight to I/m hunting overbait all I can say is bronco bring the 300 winny on, maybe you can learn something, even if you feel you know all there is.
jeep wasn't blowing smoke about my 7mm AM, it will run a 160 accubond at 3575 or a 180 berger at 3300, its taken deer at .77 miles, I respect the military guys but they aren't the only ones who can shoot.
RR
jeep wasn't blowing smoke about my 7mm AM, it will run a 160 accubond at 3575 or a 180 berger at 3300, its taken deer at .77 miles, I respect the military guys but they aren't the only ones who can shoot.
RR
11-22-2015, 10:57 PM
#62
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern California
Posts: 18,381
Trying to impose your ethics on someone else for behavior that is legal is being a bit presumptuous to say the least. As Clint said so well in Magnum Force, a man's got to know his limitations. Distance, camo, scents, even baiting, etc.--If it's legal, it's likely legal for a reason. If it's not your cup of tea, don't do it. If it exceeds your skill set (distance mainly), then don't do it. People that bow-hunt would say all of you are taking some unfair advantage. People that only use a knife would cast aspersions on a bow-hunter.
Each of us that hunts has an ethical responsibility to only take shots that we think we have a high probability of making, whether with a rifle, bow, pistol, spear, etc. It isn't what platform you use since they're all legal--It's how well you can use it.
The distance for those high probability shots can vary from member to member and hunter to hunter. Some people put in extensive time, training, equipment, money, etc. and practice, practice, practice until their operational distance is much further. Some people (like another member already stated) only fire a handful of rounds a year and have a much shorter operational distance.
RR has posted on this board for a long time and has outlined his preparation, practices and hunting ethics on multiple occasions. The members who know him well (including me) have been satisfied with his proficiency and ethics. Every now and then, somebody will attack him for his hunting distances. It never seems to fail that after 10, 20, 50 or more pages of argument and bantering, the real reason comes out. That person criticizing RR usually has their own self-imposed limits based on their own abilities and is now trying to impose their skillset limits on RR. Or maybe even just their beliefs and what they think is ethical.
If you can make the shots and consistently kill the animal cleanly at whatever range, it's ethical. It's legal and he's cleanly killing the animals. His shooting distances may not fit in with your ethics or somebody else's but it's still ethical as a hunter for him to shoot at those distances. And it's legal. You're entitled to have your own opinion and ethics but so is RR.
And to answer your OP question RR about why LR hunting is not ethical? Well, I think you already answered your own question in your first post. Often, it's because "those who know the least about what you do think they know the most."
Each of us that hunts has an ethical responsibility to only take shots that we think we have a high probability of making, whether with a rifle, bow, pistol, spear, etc. It isn't what platform you use since they're all legal--It's how well you can use it.
The distance for those high probability shots can vary from member to member and hunter to hunter. Some people put in extensive time, training, equipment, money, etc. and practice, practice, practice until their operational distance is much further. Some people (like another member already stated) only fire a handful of rounds a year and have a much shorter operational distance.
RR has posted on this board for a long time and has outlined his preparation, practices and hunting ethics on multiple occasions. The members who know him well (including me) have been satisfied with his proficiency and ethics. Every now and then, somebody will attack him for his hunting distances. It never seems to fail that after 10, 20, 50 or more pages of argument and bantering, the real reason comes out. That person criticizing RR usually has their own self-imposed limits based on their own abilities and is now trying to impose their skillset limits on RR. Or maybe even just their beliefs and what they think is ethical.
If you can make the shots and consistently kill the animal cleanly at whatever range, it's ethical. It's legal and he's cleanly killing the animals. His shooting distances may not fit in with your ethics or somebody else's but it's still ethical as a hunter for him to shoot at those distances. And it's legal. You're entitled to have your own opinion and ethics but so is RR.
And to answer your OP question RR about why LR hunting is not ethical? Well, I think you already answered your own question in your first post. Often, it's because "those who know the least about what you do think they know the most."
Last edited by CalHunter; 11-22-2015 at 11:00 PM.
11-23-2015, 06:26 PM
#65
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eastern wv
Posts: 3,646
Yup, right here down town pumpkin central of a CWD containment area and I'm whackin milksuckers on a corn pile
he's digging deep but he never acknowledged my post about retained energy at 800 and 1k,
thought by his wording in his posts he was blowin smoke.
if he comments again I will in detail pick his posts apart.
RR
he's digging deep but he never acknowledged my post about retained energy at 800 and 1k,
thought by his wording in his posts he was blowin smoke.
if he comments again I will in detail pick his posts apart.
RR
11-23-2015, 11:42 PM
#67
Spike
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 32
I don't know some may call it a rant, here goes
I post some about killing deer at long range, its legal, I enjoy it, I do have a pretty good grasp on what I'm doing, took me over 20 years to become comfortable doing it, spent a lot of money, and countless hours preparing, learning, getting efficient at it.
for years I sat on the same rock and killed way more deer at 2 to 80 yards than most folks can comprehend. Why do folks scorn it?
why am I an unethical slob because I know exactly where my bullet will hit 8 football fields away if the conditions are to my liking?
I once started a thread about a kill beyond 1K, I was constantly explaining over and over why I took the shot what I went through as far as variables to make sure I was right, yet still 23 pages of its not ethical, too many variables. I had the thread deleted because those who know the least about what I do think they know the most.
so why is LR hunting not ethical?
If I can get a legitimate reason I will respond, but the typical reasons which most talk about I will not address such as
you don't know the wind (yes I do I measure it)
you don't know the wind over there (yes I do I measure it here and compare it to there)
the deer don't know your there (if they knew you were there at 50 yards would you get a shot?)
so have at it
RR
I post some about killing deer at long range, its legal, I enjoy it, I do have a pretty good grasp on what I'm doing, took me over 20 years to become comfortable doing it, spent a lot of money, and countless hours preparing, learning, getting efficient at it.
for years I sat on the same rock and killed way more deer at 2 to 80 yards than most folks can comprehend. Why do folks scorn it?
why am I an unethical slob because I know exactly where my bullet will hit 8 football fields away if the conditions are to my liking?
I once started a thread about a kill beyond 1K, I was constantly explaining over and over why I took the shot what I went through as far as variables to make sure I was right, yet still 23 pages of its not ethical, too many variables. I had the thread deleted because those who know the least about what I do think they know the most.
so why is LR hunting not ethical?
If I can get a legitimate reason I will respond, but the typical reasons which most talk about I will not address such as
you don't know the wind (yes I do I measure it)
you don't know the wind over there (yes I do I measure it here and compare it to there)
the deer don't know your there (if they knew you were there at 50 yards would you get a shot?)
so have at it
RR
In your case RR, you seem to be one of those hunters that puts more effort into making extremely long shots happen than you do into closing the distance, or any of the other skills that I consider to be the mark of a good hunter. I wont call you a slob, or unethical, or wrong in any way, but from where I stand I feel that hunters like you are completely missing what I feel is "the point". Great shooting, poor hunting, I'd rather hear stories about 5 pin bowling than look at your cardboard score cards, if you shot them from 10 miles I still wouldn't care.
Last edited by Exophysical; 11-23-2015 at 11:47 PM.
11-24-2015, 01:17 AM
#68
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wherever liberalism must be eradicated.
Posts: 2,734
IMO To me the act of big game hunting involves the reading of sign, the consideration of wind, the use of stealth. For me taking an animal involves immersing myself in the world of that animal, almost living the life of that animal for a period of time. When these things are not present, for me, it wasn't a good hunt. Shooting at extreme distances may take more shooting skill than it does to shoot a deer out of a pickup truck, but IMO it doesn't take a whole lot more hunting skill.
In your case RR, you seem to be one of those hunters that puts more effort into making extremely long shots happen than you do into closing the distance, or any of the other skills that I consider to be the mark of a good hunter. I wont call you a slob, or unethical, or wrong in any way, but from where I stand I feel that hunters like you are completely missing what I feel is "the point". Great shooting, poor hunting, I'd rather hear stories about 5 pin bowling than look at your cardboard score cards, if you shot them from 10 miles I still wouldn't care.
In your case RR, you seem to be one of those hunters that puts more effort into making extremely long shots happen than you do into closing the distance, or any of the other skills that I consider to be the mark of a good hunter. I wont call you a slob, or unethical, or wrong in any way, but from where I stand I feel that hunters like you are completely missing what I feel is "the point". Great shooting, poor hunting, I'd rather hear stories about 5 pin bowling than look at your cardboard score cards, if you shot them from 10 miles I still wouldn't care.
That is what RR is doing as well. Challenging himself to do better. With every shot.
11-24-2015, 02:32 AM
#70
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: On an Island in Vermont
Posts: 22,589
I see it the same way Sconney. My own way of hunting mirrors Exo's mostly because that's the way I was taught, always done and partly because I don't have the skills or specialized equipment for LR shooting. RR pushes his own personal envelope just as Exo does...just from different distances using other methods. I see similar comparisons with some sportsmen lobbing arrows with a trad bow while others buy $1200 carbon compounds shooting at 340 fps. Modern scoped in lines with the newest projectiles shoot 200 yds about as well as center fire rifles while the open sight flinters shooting a patched round ball are distance limited by their equipment. Respect given to everyone who pushes for more expertise using whatever technology or methods they own. Being open minded allows for many more options.
Last edited by Champlain Islander; 11-24-2015 at 02:34 AM.
