question for all members
11-21-2015, 07:58 AM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eastern wv
Posts: 3,646
got in invite in '08 and when we were on the rifle there was benches, a grill, a keg of beer, and 40 people behind us, and southern folk think a hurricane party is a big time.
RR
11-21-2015, 08:18 AM
#12
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: idaho
Posts: 2,773
I have heard that the ethical man knows its wrong to do something. The moral man just doesn't do it.
That being said.
We all have different morals and ethics to live with. If a person can make the shot cleanly. I have no problem with it. Sure a deer can move in the split second it takes to travel 758 yrds.
But my 7mm Magnum covers that distance in less than a second. The bullet has hit the deer before the deer hears the shot.
The deer isn't going to move enough to affect shot placement.
Like super hunt said, most people don't have the time or space to practice these shots. There just aren't that many long range ranges to shoot at. That kind of space costs a lot of money. They have no business attempting shots like that.
I know my rifle after 20yrs of shooting it. But i know that i have no business trying past 200 yrds. That is my comfort zone.
That being said.
We all have different morals and ethics to live with. If a person can make the shot cleanly. I have no problem with it. Sure a deer can move in the split second it takes to travel 758 yrds.
But my 7mm Magnum covers that distance in less than a second. The bullet has hit the deer before the deer hears the shot.
The deer isn't going to move enough to affect shot placement.
Like super hunt said, most people don't have the time or space to practice these shots. There just aren't that many long range ranges to shoot at. That kind of space costs a lot of money. They have no business attempting shots like that.
I know my rifle after 20yrs of shooting it. But i know that i have no business trying past 200 yrds. That is my comfort zone.
besides the movement arguement can also be made for close shots.
how many deer have been missed or wounded during archery because of string twang when arrow is released? is it unethical or immoral to hunt with a bow? (rehtorical, I am sure many would say yes)
or how many close rifle shots have been missed because deer saw hunter right as he shot, or he hurried shot in fear animal would run away?
point is plenty of deer have been wounded by " close ,ethical" shots also.
I WOULD HOWEVER SAY, THAT I WOULD BE RELUCTANT TO ALLOW A TEN YEAR OLD TO try a five hundred yard shot. though that said, there are many ten year olds that can outshoot many adults
Last edited by kidoggy; 11-21-2015 at 08:20 AM.
11-21-2015, 08:33 AM
#13
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eastern wv
Posts: 3,646
my statement about the 10 year old was used as an example how easy it can be, they shoot from a prone position with a rear support we have the TIMEto get the rifle set up,I instruct them on the scope settings, and instruct them on how to aim, and when to send itIts basically the same as a 100 yard shot once they are calmed down.
I have let 16 folks that had their introduction to long range and 15 of those made 1 shot kills that were recovered at ranges from490 to 722 yards, the 16th one made a killing shot but the deer made it to adjoining property and the landowner refused us access.
the shooter run the gamut from middle school kids, to college girls to veteran hunters who just never shot long distance.
RR
I have let 16 folks that had their introduction to long range and 15 of those made 1 shot kills that were recovered at ranges from490 to 722 yards, the 16th one made a killing shot but the deer made it to adjoining property and the landowner refused us access.
the shooter run the gamut from middle school kids, to college girls to veteran hunters who just never shot long distance.
RR
11-21-2015, 08:38 AM
#14
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: On an Island in Vermont
Posts: 22,594
Question RR...are you self taught, ex military, or did you have a mentor to work your way to the level you are at today? I have a buddy who lives in NY who is a re-loader and shooter. He has access to a 750 yd range and he played around with some long range stuff with a bull barreled 308 Savage he bought just to mess around with that distance. He said it was a blast but certainly didn't achieve the accuracy to hunt at that range.
11-21-2015, 08:55 AM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eastern wv
Posts: 3,646
CI, here s my story, I'm sure I've posted it here before but here goes
I was 21 years old, had hunted for years, killed a lot of stuff, deer season 1981
saw a buck chasing does up on the hill above my grandma's farm, my rifle at that time was a Remington model 760 270 with a 4x redfield, I layed down, put the fat part of the crosshair on the deers spine and squeezed, he hit the ground flopping, my only thought was daaayum! I need tolearn how to do this on purpose.
I started buying more powerful flatter shooting rifles, got a 7 mag, then a 270 weatherby, I was stuck at 450 yards, this was before you could buy a mil-dot or BDC scope.
In 1996 I bought a turn key custom 7mmstw from mark bansner, while burning up that 600 dollar barrel I figured out if I sighted it in 2.6" high at 100 I was 19" low at 500 so shots got easier to 600 yards, but how could you get past that? in 1998 I finaly joined the computer age, I joined here and during a google search found a forum called long range hunting, that is where I got the most knowledge from, those guys are amazing, they told me what I needed, where to get it and how to use it, anyone who has doubts should join there, read and ask questions.
you need good shooting rifle with thecapacity to deliver the required energy at your maximum distance, a rangefinder to tell you how far to your target, and a drop chart adjusted to your load, a way to read atmospheric conditions and practice and more practice, I was as good as I will ever be in 2008, was hoping to take a deer at 1 mile but life got in the way, when my daughter was diagnosed with diabetes, the money I use to spend on shooting now buys her medicine I just do the best I can and try to help others who are interested in it
RR
I was 21 years old, had hunted for years, killed a lot of stuff, deer season 1981
saw a buck chasing does up on the hill above my grandma's farm, my rifle at that time was a Remington model 760 270 with a 4x redfield, I layed down, put the fat part of the crosshair on the deers spine and squeezed, he hit the ground flopping, my only thought was daaayum! I need tolearn how to do this on purpose.
I started buying more powerful flatter shooting rifles, got a 7 mag, then a 270 weatherby, I was stuck at 450 yards, this was before you could buy a mil-dot or BDC scope.
In 1996 I bought a turn key custom 7mmstw from mark bansner, while burning up that 600 dollar barrel I figured out if I sighted it in 2.6" high at 100 I was 19" low at 500 so shots got easier to 600 yards, but how could you get past that? in 1998 I finaly joined the computer age, I joined here and during a google search found a forum called long range hunting, that is where I got the most knowledge from, those guys are amazing, they told me what I needed, where to get it and how to use it, anyone who has doubts should join there, read and ask questions.
you need good shooting rifle with thecapacity to deliver the required energy at your maximum distance, a rangefinder to tell you how far to your target, and a drop chart adjusted to your load, a way to read atmospheric conditions and practice and more practice, I was as good as I will ever be in 2008, was hoping to take a deer at 1 mile but life got in the way, when my daughter was diagnosed with diabetes, the money I use to spend on shooting now buys her medicine I just do the best I can and try to help others who are interested in it
RR
Last edited by Ridge Runner; 11-21-2015 at 09:05 AM.
11-21-2015, 09:16 AM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Virginia / West Virginia
Posts: 4,906
Hey, I have no issue at all with long range shooting. It impresses the heck out of me. RR you are as good as anyone I know (though I don't know you personally).
It takes alot to get proficient, and I respect that. My only issue is like super said...the people that buy a "magnum" rifle and assume they can shoot deer at long distances. That's a recipe for disaster.
Keep poppin em long distance RR. Good luck next week...I'm heading to the cabin tonight. Should be a nice week weather wise!
It takes alot to get proficient, and I respect that. My only issue is like super said...the people that buy a "magnum" rifle and assume they can shoot deer at long distances. That's a recipe for disaster.
Keep poppin em long distance RR. Good luck next week...I'm heading to the cabin tonight. Should be a nice week weather wise!
11-21-2015, 09:17 AM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NE Kansas
Posts: 1,101
Where I see an ethical issue in long range hunting is in fair chase. As you well know, an animal like a deer has its senses and capabilities as defense mechanisms.
There's a point in there where the animal loses all chance of detecting a hunter, and if it's simply because of technology, I see a problem. Fair chase hunting is about using one's skills at stealth and concealment to avoid detection and then be able to make the kill. For that the game has to have a chance to see you, smell you, hear you, etc.
It's a gray area, for sure. I wear camo and shoot a modern bolt action.
I'd rather see hunters try this as an alternative: See how close you can get to a deer. Can you stalk to within bow range? That's far more impressive than a long shot to me, because I know how easy it is to spook a deer when hunting.
There's a point in there where the animal loses all chance of detecting a hunter, and if it's simply because of technology, I see a problem. Fair chase hunting is about using one's skills at stealth and concealment to avoid detection and then be able to make the kill. For that the game has to have a chance to see you, smell you, hear you, etc.
It's a gray area, for sure. I wear camo and shoot a modern bolt action.
I'd rather see hunters try this as an alternative: See how close you can get to a deer. Can you stalk to within bow range? That's far more impressive than a long shot to me, because I know how easy it is to spook a deer when hunting.
11-21-2015, 09:25 AM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eastern wv
Posts: 3,646
so FF whacking them from afar is cheating through use of technology, but wearing camo made with same technology, and using scents to fool the deer, while setting in a state of the art treestand is ok
RR
RR
11-21-2015, 10:02 AM
#19
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,695
Yes I agree with you RR, that argument really holds no water. As far as a deer's senses go, they are as apt to NOT detect you at 100 yards as they would be out to 1000. With that argument, you would basically be left to using your teeth as your hunting weapon. Guns, bows, even sling shots are technology. True fair chase would be climbing up in a tree and jumping on a deer's back and choking it out like any other predator on the planet.
11-21-2015, 10:44 AM
#20
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: south eastern PA
Posts: 15,431
As long as a person practices and knows their limitations I have no problem with it. The people I know that do it have a crew of people who wait in the general vicinity of the area the shooter is set up to watch so he can lead them in if he kills one. These guys tend to be in place all day, they do not move around and shoot from one side of a valley to the other.
