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Old 11-25-2015, 01:31 PM
  #121  
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Well Superhunt, what is happening in this thread isn't teaching anything other than one segment of hunters believe they have some kind of moral high ground over other hunters, especially by two posters. It is one thing to just go out and take shots that a person is not competent at taking and quite another to practice and hone long distance shooting. I don't shoot at the distances that RR shoots, not even close, however if a person is competent at a thousand yards it is the height of elitism to claim what the do is not hunting and different methods of hunting are more ethical. If a person is good at what they do and their kill to shot ratio is as good as those who shoot at shorter ranges, and that would include me, what right does anyone have to demean their method? And make no mistake about it, that is exactly what has been happening on this thread by those who disagree with that kind of hunting! As anyone who has been here for any period of time will know, RR and I do not see eye to eye on a lot, however when hunters criticize other hunters for using a perfectly legal method to take wildlife that is different from what they do, and the person using those methods are perfectly competent at what they do, they are helping those who would end sport hunting. Yes, RR asked the question, however the discussion has gone beyond why others don't take long range shots to anyone who does isn't hunting, just shooting, and that is pitiful. This thread has outlived its usefulness.

Last edited by Oldtimr; 11-25-2015 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:36 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by Champlain Islander View Post
Sounds like a whole new hobby with a ton of room for improvement and learning. I have to ask what are the realistic limits to success as far as target shooting. With ballistics in mind... just how far can one expect to have accuracy? Shooting long distance on game here in Vt isn't practical since the fields are small and the woods are thick so any education I would get would be for targets.
CI that is dependant on the accuracy capability of your rifle/load combo, a rifle that shoots 2" groups at 100 will do no better than hit somewhere in a 14" circle at 700 yards, for target shooting that could well be "good enough" it depends on what you want to achieve
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:39 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by Exophysical View Post
To be fair, he did ask for it, it was delivered. This is not a conversation I would have indulged in had the op not asked.
Yes, Ridge asked and members shared . My statement was general and applies to all of us. It will be just as true today, tomorrow or yesterday.
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Old 11-25-2015, 02:11 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by Champlain Islander View Post
Sounds like a whole new hobby with a ton of room for improvement and learning. I have to ask what are the realistic limits to success as far as target shooting. With ballistics in mind... just how far can one expect to have accuracy? Shooting long distance on game here in Vt isn't practical since the fields are small and the woods are thick so any education I would get would be for targets.
Originally Posted by Ridge Runner View Post
CI that is dependant on the accuracy capability of your rifle/load combo, a rifle that shoots 2" groups at 100 will do no better than hit somewhere in a 14" circle at 700 yards, for target shooting that could well be "good enough" it depends on what you want to achieve
RR
To expand on that a little CI, a well bedded, trued action, and better than average barrel are needed for long range accuracy. Not to mention a good optic and well tuned ammo matched up to your chamber (basically what your rifle likes to eat the most). Barrel harmonics comes into play at ranges past 400 yards, twist rates for varying weights/lengths of bullets to find that special match up between rifle and barrel. Top end trigger with perfectly clean, crisp break and 0 creep. Different powders/primer combinations. Even sizing and trimming your cases as well as case wall thickness comes into play when playing the long range game. When I reload for my long range rigs, I go so far as to make sure my bullets are within 1/16th of a grain in difference. Hard to get closer than that. Then you have the hundreds of hours on the trigger sending round after round learning each and every little nuance about your rifle and how each shot feels on the break. All the calculations needed for things such as Barometric pressure, temperature, actual humidity, wind speeds and direction, your muzzle velocities and Ballistic Coefficient of the particular bullets you are sending. And that's just the basics! Sounds like a lot of work, and it really IS but it is enjoyable. But it sure aint cheap to get to where you can send accurately, and more importantly, CONSISTENTLY into the ring or steel.
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Old 11-25-2015, 03:08 PM
  #125  
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Thanks for the advanced info SH 54. Wow way more than this old Vermonter could ever have time to learn. Lots of science and engineering in the pursuit of perfection for long range expertise. With that in mind I can offer congratulations to those shooters who have honed their craft. Back to my question...with the best of the best...how far can a person accurately shoot and thinking about a military use.
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Old 11-25-2015, 03:25 PM
  #126  
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There have been several confirmed sniper kills over 2,000 yards in modern times. Also, one in 1967 to Carlos Hathcock. I have no idea if these guys could "target shoot" at these distances, but they managed to get confirmed kills. There are people out there able to reach a mile as well. Which is a little over 1700 yards I believe. A quick youtube search shows some videos at 2,000 and even some over 3,500 yards but I didn't watch any of those. Some of the more knowledgeable guys will have to say how far they've grouped on paper.
-Jake
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:05 PM
  #127  
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Kirby Allen killed a 1/2 grown marmot at 2200 yards, craig Slick I think his name is, is on a quest for a prairie dog at 2 miles.
The official 1000 yard 5 shot group is like 4" fired at thunder valley range in ohio.
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:10 PM
  #128  
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Hunting is normally that the first round is the one that counts. You may or may not get second chance and as often as not, your first round tells you what the atmospherics are doing at extreme ranges.

The atmospherics gave me more grief than most other things. I could usually keep a decent group, but the group would move around the paper as the air temperature changed. I'd start shooting early and as the range warmed up, the point of impact would change.

With my .308 bullet drop was around 55 inches anyway at 500 meters, the air layers, the temperature and even the bullet going from near mach 3 to mach 2 would have some effect. In other words a lot of variables. I've always had a small talent for picturing various events in my mind and correlating an outcome. And was consistent enough to shot fairly tight groups. My problem was the shot groups would move around the paper as atmospheric conditions changed, minute of angle changes were common from one hour in the morning and say two hours later. Rain, wind, ground fog. ambient temperature, even how warm my rifle was would have some effect.

First round hits on antlered game, above around 500 meters are iffy. At least for me. 350 is about my limit for a reliable hit. Real world you are rarely shooting flat, it is either uphill or downhill and that is a whole other can of worms.

Something else many people forget is that a bullet doesn't fly in two dimensions, up and down. Besides the wind, it flies in kind of a corkscrew.

Maybe I'm just not smart enough to grasp all the variables and spit out a good enough solution to reliably bring down Antlered game at extreme distances.

Maybe i need to bring a ballistic computer with me.

The way I see it is, long range shooting is just another skill set. Man is a pack hunter, but the individuals in the pack all bring different abilities and skill sets to the hunt. Some are better at sneaking and creeping, some are faster, some are better shots, some better at tracking or reading sign. My skill set is I seem to find game when nobody else does, I don't know exactly how I do it, instinct I guess. For years the county paid me to do game counts, the old round peg in the round hole syndrome, that rarely ever happens in reality.

Last edited by MudderChuck; 11-25-2015 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:14 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by Champlain Islander View Post
Thanks for the advanced info SH 54. Wow way more than this old Vermonter could ever have time to learn. Lots of science and engineering in the pursuit of perfection for long range expertise. With that in mind I can offer congratulations to those shooters who have honed their craft. Back to my question...with the best of the best...how far can a person accurately shoot and thinking about a military use.
There's a lot of variables needed to answer that question CI. What type of conditions will the "engagement" be under? What system is the team carrying? US team or another countries force? I believe the longest recorded kill shot was made by a UK sniper at close to 2,500 meters with a L115A3 chambered in .338 LAP. I'd have to look it up to be sure but I think that is the recorded longest in fire in action. Another was pretty close to that from a Canadian sniper using a .50 cal.
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:21 PM
  #130  
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Sorry double post, I'm getting ready to go look for a sounder of hogs I've been watching for the last couple of months and trying to post quick.

Last edited by MudderChuck; 11-25-2015 at 04:32 PM.
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