super_hunt54

I have a set of twin grandsons. When their mom and dad say "lets go to gramp's house", no matter what video game or whatever they are playing or doing, they trow it down and the race is on to the car. One of their favorite lines to their friends is, "why play shooter games on a video game when we can go to gramp's and shoot REAL guns!" Raised all my kids in the outdoors and my kids are raising theirs to do the same. I guess it helps when gramp's has an arsenal that would rival the National Guards Well, when I can keep my kid's grubby hands off me damn rifles that is Little thieves

salukipv1

YOU CAN DO BOTH!

To each their own really, but honestly, is any trophy hunter not also a meat hunter by default?
A meat hunter is only hunting for meat/food,
a Trophy hunter is hunting for something he'd be proud to mount/take etc... and will also be eating.
It seems as if the term trophy hunter nowadays comes off as a poacher who shoots an animal, takes the head and leaves the carcass, which I doubt is most trophy hunters.

Also circumstances are everything, a guy from the midwest or east coast heading to hunt out west for deer, elk etc... spending thousands of dollars, does he want to shoot the first dink/meat animal he sees? possibly, but probably not.

When a non-res is paying $900 for an elk tag, what's that elk meat come to per pound? probably more than filet Mignon, he'd be better off staying home and buying steak.

But a local buying a $19 tag, and meat is the priority.

Different strokes for different folks.

Nomercy448

This won't ever be resolved, so discussing it and pretending that the debate is fruitful is largely foolish, but he11, I can't sleep anyway...

I fed myself for a number of years on cattle and chicken I raised and deer (and small game) I hunted. Even during that time, if I could happen to take a big buck, I would. Still do.

Maybe I'm fortunate in the area I hunt. I have the luxury of being able to fill my tags on a rule that if it's not over 200lbs, there's more meat to be had elsewhere, and I let them walk. I have a few areas where overpopulated herds have been an issue for crop damage, and I do cull doe from those areas, but I can really do that any time of year on damage permits. Where I hunt, there are young doe, young bucks, old doe, and old bucks. I don't have to live by a "8point or bigger" rule of thumb, because any given year, I have a bunch of 8's or higher that would go over 130", and I let them walk. They're also generally in the 175-200lb class. The ones I shoot tend to walk at 250+, and are 9-13pt in the 150-170" class. I go without bucks on a lot of seasons because I don't get a shot on the one or two bucks I wanted. For example, I ate doe all spring because I never got a shot on the 11pt I wanted. This year he's back, picked up two kickers and two non-typical spur points off of his main beam. He's 6 or 7yrs old, and he's the second biggest body I have ever seen on my property, the largest being the 315-330lb calc'd weight buck I took a few years ago there. He'll put half again more meat on my table than any doe on my property this year. My "back up buck" is an 11pt that is almost as large in body, but not nearly as heavy in the rack, with a lot more standard typical rack, but still over the 150" mark. I have two or three other bucks on other properties that I think would break 200lbs, but if I let them go another year or two, they'll get bigger racks and bigger bodies.

So I suppose the point I'm making is that I hunt specifically for large bags of meat, and the biggest bags I have on my properties also happen to have big hood ornaments. If I can't get the biggest bucks, then I take th biggest doe (multiple) and let anything young survive.

I don't have the burden of picking between a 150lb doe and a 125lb greyhound with an 8pt rack. My big meat deer are also big wall hangers. The fact that I've fostered successfully sustained herds for over 15yrs on a couple of my properties that will throw animals of that quality makes me think that I'm not chasing the wrong ideas.

olsaltydog

I will say when I spent more time fishing I used to find deer in the water all the time with the headgear cut off and the back straps/tenderloin cut out and the rest of the animal left. I am sure some of these folk call themselves trophy hunters but I think of them as unethical hunters. Too much waste.

For myself I will shoot deer for the meat, now giving the option with several deer in a field or something I may try for the bigger one if I think it is an option. This doesn't mean I am looking at head gear I am just looking at the body and weight of the deer. I do the same with does. If early season is going good I then may spend my time looking into one particular deer as I enjoy the challenge of trying to kill one deer in particular, but I am not that dedicated and will take a great looking deer no matter what.

Also they all look pretty good most of the time.

vapahunter

I hunt for the meat but have no problem if someone wants to shot because of antler size. What I do have problems with are those who set out to change regulations so that ALL hunters are restricted to what they can shoot. Game Departments statewide should be managing for quantity and not antler size. Setting regulations so that only a certain size antlered deer can be taken is telling all hunters that just want the meat that they must conform to a much smaller group of trophy hunters. And that should not be so. TV shows are now to the point that it indicates that if you are not looking for a 14 point huge deer then you are not a true hunter. Regulations and the hunting mentality needs to go back to harvesting for the table not the wall.

Oldtimr

Yep, what he said

rockport

Do they do that strictly to accommodate trophy hunters? I mean it can't hurt to let the herd actually develop some mature male deer right?

I'm just curious as I have no experience with large scale point restrictions. Is there a lack of doe or something that makes shooting 1 1/2 year old bucks necessary?

To me it seems like a reasonable means to help/allow mother nature to pass on stronger genetics. Not just antler genetics but health genetics. You know by allowing mother nature to have a few years to weed out inferior genetics.

I personally don't really care about large scale antler restrictions as I'm after the ones that always get away. Letting them all get away would IMO take the appeal of the challenge away but I have to think its good for the herd to allow bucks to gain a little age and give mother nature a chance to do her thing.

Age restrictions would be far more effective but I think that is probably very unrealistic on a large scale. That is how I do it on my farms.

olsaltydog

I have heard some states have moved to a new method in determining a deer herds health and that is a proper age structure. Was told it used to be determined by the number of deer period but over the years many biologist felt that if you had a poor year or two of recruiting then the herd can become endangered of a collapse or not looking healthy. This led them to come up with a new method to have a herd that represents adequate numbers in each year range. Problem I think is that antler restrictions and other things like no doe tags, you are making younger deer off limit list which does nobody any good.

brucelanthier

Logic would say that it would make sense to develop mature deer, male and female, but there are never any age restrictions, just antler point restrictions so I would say yes, to accommodate trophy hunters they restrict what other hunters can shoot.

It is no more necessary to shoot a 6.5 year old buck than it is to shoot a 1.5 year old buck. A person should be able to shoot whatever age range they want unless there are solid management reasons for an age restriction.

I agree with the reasonableness of passing on stronger health genetics but that would mean managing age of bucks and does.

Yes, I agree, if there are any restrictions then they should be related to age. Unfortunately they are always related to rack size to aid trophy hunters and restricting non-trophy hunters.

brucelanthier

Agreed! Very good post.