The demise of the whitetail challenge.
 

For me hunting is something I do for the challenge. I have a deep passion for whitetail hunting because I love the rigors of preseason scouting and trying to outsmart the deer in their backyard. Its such a sense of satisfaction killing a mature buck when he runs a doe past you, hits a nearby scrape, or comes through a know funnel between bedding and feeding. Now-a-days with technology and social media its easy to see what everyone is doing and im amazed at how many people bait. Personally I wish baiting for whitetails was illegal in every state but if its legal then someone has the right to do it. I was always taught by my father and grandfather that hunting is about comradery between fellow hunters, experiencing nature in its natural setting, a sense of adventure, and learning the habits of animals in the area. I am 26, and it just makes me ponder about the future of whitetail hunting as many in my generation would rather set up a feeder or corn pile that attracts deer daily, leave it go for a month then sit in the stand 2 or 3 times and harvest a mature buck. I started hunting with my father at age 10 and it took me 3 seasons to harvest my first deer but I can tell you I probably learned more about how deer behave in 3 years than bait hunters learn in a lifetime. Whats everyones opinion on physically able adults baiting whitetails?

I would not but like you said, if it's legal ,go for it.

I agree 100%....I would not bait, but I do know those who do...I love the challenge of trying to outsmart not just a wily mature buck....but also that very intelligent mature doe. Due to health reasons, I was limited on my time in the woods this year....I hunted maybe 30% of what I normally do.....and I came up empty this year.....for the first time in approx 10 years. I probably could have thrown some corn out in the late season, but I chose not to do so. I am not ridiculing those who do bait....it is just not for me. The deer won this year....but I will be back next year...God willing.....and will be scouting everyway possible to make sure I put myself in the right spot to try and take a deer...just my 2 cents worth!!

So it bothers you that you put in much more work and effort to get a mature buck then the people who legally bait? States that allow baiting obviously have large whitetail populations and they have to let people bait to ensure harvest of the proper amount of deer to keep heathly populations. It's not legal here in idaho, but we don't have the amount of deer that other states do either...we're only allowed one over the counter deer tag a year. If the high population states made baiting illegal, then imagine what methods of population control they might have to employ...

As far as the work required to take a mature buck your way vs baiting, I wouldn't let it bother you. Your way requires more scouting, skill, patience, and time in the field...you know it and so do they. Yes baiting is a whole lot easier and takes away from the challenge, but I imagine the mountain men would take one look at our firearms and gadgets and think the same thing about our way. I think there will always be those that like to apply old school methods of hunting for the challenge it brings, it's certainly the reason I find myself carrying a sidelock muzzleloader during general season...I simply enjoy doing so. I'm certainly no expert, but the older I get the more I seem to lean towards wanting to learn more and more primitive methods and woodsman skills.

In this day and age with the constant attack of the 2nd amendment and our right to hunt, I won't be splitting hairs about a perfectly legal method of hunting. Anyone that gets out there and does it is on "our side", and I'll support them any way I can as long as they're doing it within the law.

As far as the "whitetail challenge" goes, unless you are hunting a specific buck or a certain size rack, after you figure out deer I would not call it much of a challenging to hunt them. I hunt deer for the enjoyment of the hunt and the comradship with the people I hunt with and last but not least, for the delicious venison My family enjoys on the table. I am not a rack hunter but I do try to shoot the biggest body deer I can. Baiting has been around for a long time in some states, many of those folks get a challenge to get the deer to come to the bait when they want them to. I do not hunt deer over bait, I have never had to and it s not legal in most of my state. I do however hunt wild boar over bait and sometimes even with timed feeders they do not come in while you are there. I am much more concerned with all the gadgets and gizmos that take the place of skill that are being marketed to hunters and that hunters are so eager to buy. I believe these thing do and will have a much more detrimental affect on deer hunting than legal bait.

i would think baiting for some people is simply because thats all they can afford or they dont have the time to do anything else. Im pretty everyone out there would love to have a nice 5 acre foodplot with some luscious clover and turnips growing. But not everyone can devote the time and money to do that. A bag of corn is $6 and takes 5 mins to put out. Also 150 acres of my land is planted every year so its like a massive foodplot. But again not everyone has access to that so theres no reason to punish them. I mean if some guy is baiting 100 miles away is that seriously affecting your hunting?

Very few mature bucks are killed over a bait pile! The problem with baiting is that it makes deer lazy and even more nocturnal than they normally are because they know right where they can go for a quick meal without having to get up before dark. A smarter old buck normally won't come into a bait pile unless does are coming in season and then it's for that and not to eat. The only time I've hunted with that method is with corn spin feeders down in the thick brush country of south Texas where you need to draw deer out of the heavy cover onto a sendero or small open area to even see them.

I'm not sure there are really very many short cuts when it comes to CONSISTENTLY harvesting mature bucks but I don't know much about baiting.

A lot of hunters just don't realize that its not what your not doing but what you are doing that is the problem.

I grew up in an area where baiting is legal, I now live where it is not. I don't understand how others baiting diminishes the "whitetail challenge" for you in any way. What others are doing has no bearing on what you are doing to harvest a deer. It's kind of like a fly fisherman resenting people fishing with worms, the turkey hunters resenting decoys because others don't rely on calls as much, or a traditional bow hunter or muzzleloader hunter resenting someone using a modern rifle. Sure its easier with the modern rifle, so what? As long as the heard is being managed properly and harvest totals are kept at a reasonable level, I don't really care how someone harvests a deer.

I have already posted regarding my position on baiting, if it is legal and you want to, go for it. However, there are situations where baiting can affect other hunters. Many people hunt relatively small properties, if your property borders a property where the owner/hunter does not bait nor want to, your baiting could draw deer off of his property onto yours and therefore affect his hunting. Yeah, I know, we don't own the deer, the state does but baiting can affect others who do not bait.

That is exactly right and the more that bait out and around where you hunt the worse it is to see deer of any type for exactly the reason I mentioned in my other post. I wish baiting had never started, but it's big business for stores up here in MI and IMHO the hunter that does it is as lazy as the deer that come to his bait.

Baiting seems like a snowball effect.

I mean if your neighbors are baiting you about have to right?

I'd rather hunt deer than pattern human activity so I'm glad its illegal where I live.

100 miles away? I mean just use common sense, if it were 100 miles away I'd be an idiot to make a thread of it. lol . Try out of state leasers on the neighboring farm.

Well I am glad that most share the same opinions on this, though I can tell some are still lost, or just baiters themselves. For those of you who haven't had a neighboring property start baiting then feel lucky because I just got introduced this season to how drastically it affected the hunting on my property. It didnt seem to have much effect until the fall forage was gone then it was evident because they started going to the feeders over the property line rather than making the longer trip to the nearest corn field (on my farm). BUT this is the internet so I dont want to go too deep in this or it will give the baiters more ideas/insight. lol

You are absolutely correct on the snowball effect. The neighbor on the 40 south of my place that I've had since 1973 up in northern MI used to have bait piles all over the place and I mean a bunch of it in amounts that were illegal. He was the type that would have burned my place down if I had called the DNR, so I just lived with it. It drastically affected my hunting over the ten years or so that he was there. When he sold out 5 years ago to a nice fellow that lives down in southern MI the change was very dramatic.

I feel for you guys that have to deal with that. Not that I don't have plenty of human interference to deal with myself but luckily baiting is one less thing I have to deal with.

I don't like baiting. I think it spreads disease.

The demise of hunters
 

Times change rapidly. I know from all the older things I still use.

The ten year old that hunted doesn't find hunting the same at 25. Many move at 25 for new places and lose the old camraderie; some stay in the old area and see other buddies move off. The old becomes the past. Life changes.
By the time you get to forty, it can be the lone hunter who hunts.
Maybe you'll find one hunter in the new neighborhood. Maybe none in a crowded metro area.
Met a man in his eighties. He neither hunted or fished. Did neither since he was eighteen. The demise of hunters varies. But each young hunter has a problem to face. It's not always easy to stay a hunter.

I've never been fond of baiting. Not that I'm going to knock someone who does utilize it but where I'm at feeders are illegal and you can't have more than two gallons out per so many acres at a time. So you'd have to go tromping through the woods pretty often to keep bait out all the time. My grandfather does keep a bait pile just below his house with a trail camera on it and I have noticed that the mature bucks come in well after dark if they come at all. To each their own.

+1

............ and well stated Valentine ! :rock:

You have to want to, and can't sleep the night before in anticipation !!!

Interesting. I do not bait to hunt and hunt a 50 acre farm. On all sides of me the other hunters all have bait piles. I get my deer every year by setting up on the trails that lead to these bait piles.

I agree with the OP that perhaps the guys that are putting out 1/4 and half acre bait plots or kill plots are missing the challenge by sitting over thier bait plots.

Hunters supplying/providing food to deer to advantage that hunter in seeing, atracting, congregating deer (regardless of the manner in which they provide that food) appears to rob the hunter of the hunt.

If you have deer in your hunting areas, they are there because of water, food or shelter (bedding / cover).

Go Hunt'em up !!!

I prefer that deer not be baited and food plotted. Notwithstanding, it is legal in many places. From the point of view of the state, the civic purpose of deer hunting is to manage the deer population efficiently. Too many deer and there are too many car-deer accidents. From that perspective, such artificial ploys are fine and contribute to the desired end -- restricting the population of deer.

I don't think deer are that difficult to find and kill. I never resorted to bait, food plots, or tree stands when hunting deer. In fact, I just went out, found a place to sit given the wind conditions on that day, and sat down. I would choose a place in the shadows, with cover around me to break up my outline, but I wouldn't really build a blind. I took plenty of deer. I didn't take monster bucks, but I was not after a deer with antlers in the 98.0 percentile of antler size. The success and satisfaction of my hunt was not evaluated -- by me anyway -- with such statistical metrics. I took about as many does as bucks. I no longer hunt deer but instead hunt elk which I love even more than deer hunting. I still don't measure the success and satisfaction of my hunts by antler size. I have taken 2 bulls and 1 cow, taking the cow this past October. Honest, taking this cow was my most satisfying elk hunt by a significant margin so far, due to some extra challenges thrown in this year (mostly coming down with a significant respiratory illness that made me think I would have to give up on the second day of the hunt).

It just seems like a shortcut to me (baiting and food plots). Go out in the woods. Pattern your deer. Accept you won't get a deer every season. Oblige yourself to engage your mind and your senses to hunt the deer, adapting to the conditions of the day and the year. It is more fun. How long do you have to sit in a tree stand after the corn spreading motor turns on before the deer walks up and you blast it? Is that the challenge folks are looking for? To each his own . . . but you asked for my opinion, so here it is.

Jose Ortega y Gassett says the hunter knows he doesn't know what is going to happen, and that is essential to the joy of the hunt. Once that corn feeder turns on . . . doesn't the hunter know for sure what is going to happen? Where is the joy in that hunt? That is industrial hunting, modulated to achieve maximum deer harvesting efficiency.

DnHscents, what would you call drawing deer into you using scents and lures, in particular estrouse scents? The drive to breed is just as strong as the drive to eat. What does the use of those things rob the hunter of?

I don't use scents or baits but I don't think the 2 are even close to the same

A shotcut is a shortcut.

[QUOTE=Immel007;4179351] I am 26, and it just makes me ponder about the future of whitetail hunting as many in my generation would rather set up a feeder or corn pile that attracts deer daily, leave it go for a month then sit in the stand 2 or 3 times and harvest a mature buck. [/fQUOTE]


Bro I'm 50 years old and I've killed a lot of deer the hard way!!! And I'm pretty much tired of romping around in the woods dragging treestands and dragging deer up and down mtns... I myself like being able to decide if I want to bring deer into a area that I can get my atv in and out... Maybe when your a little it older you might change your mind about the baiting issue:biggrin:

Yeah I would have to disagree. There are levels to shortcuts.

Spraying a little garlic on my crappie jig is not the same as throwing a stick of dynamite in the water.

I noticed that the OP has not been here in several days! Just started sheet and hauled arse! Poor boy, 26 years old, already burnt out on hunting because others don't do things his way! Wah, wah, wah!
If it is legal, we have a choice to make. If it's illegal we don't have a choice!

Exactly right Jag, and don't rationalize that your shortcut is better or more moral than someone elses shortcut.

For the record I don't think there is anything morally wrong with baiting.

Haha. Very laughable. Its called being a passionate outdoorsman with waterfowl season ending the 25th. I been busy working then on the water when not. I applaud you for your last two sentences, thats some information I never knew, can you tell me where you where able to find it?

A passionate outdoorsman supports hunters rights as long as it's legal! They don't whine about how others are doing it! It sounds to me like the sour grapes of someone shooting a buck you thought was yours! If you really want a challenge, whittle yourself a bow and some arrows and put on a loin-cloth and go hunting!

"The demise of the Whitetail challenge" drama much? I bait, my neighbors bait and many public hunters bait on the county land surrounding my property. Of the mature bucks i've shot only one was over bait. Of the few big bucks that show up at my small corn pile, almost all are there way after hunting hours. In my neighborhood baiting does not get nor guarantee the mature bucks, my bait does yield a nice doe or fork horn from time to time.

Okay, your right if they allow assault rifles and night hunting for deer ill be all for it bc itll be legal. No, I stand up for things I believe in not what others say I should. And to the PP, thats very easy to understand since there is much baiting in you area. The mature deer will get smart quick and it will not be a big draw. In an area with two small crop fields in roughly 10 sq miles and only one party baiting, it is a much different situation. It is legal, luckily however due to many complaints that may change in ny state at some point soon. I wanted some opinions on why some preferred baiting/similar experiences/disliked baiting/etc. I got them and now like most threads, its been trolled lol

This is why just read threads. Op asks a single question in original post and now its beyond where the trolls have come out to play and disregarded how it got to this point. Lol

So Who is a troll? Me? Who? Which state allows night hunting for deer? Who's the troll?

Who's the troll? There are hundreds of threads for and against baiting. There is absolutely no reason for a newbie to start a new one, other than to stir the pot! Also, stooping to compare baiting to night hunting, is far beyond stretching reality!
Normally, I am very welcoming of new members to the board, and I'll welcome you too, Immel07! But, if you are here just to divide legal hunters, please take your garbage elsewhere! It's enough to fight off anti-hunters/gunners, without having to fight off the "holier-than-thou," crowd too!
Together we stand, divided we fall!
P.S. Immel07, I didn't make up the last sentence or find it in any long-lost book! Just common sense!

OP....You can always come out west, and hunt for mule deer if you want a different challenge.

No bait, no tree stands, just tall mountains, and millions of acres of public land.