Will small bucks mate when larger bucks are around?
 

I saw some really nice mature deer when i set up my camera on a piece of property we just bought. When I was fixing to take my camera back home I saw a pretty big scrape with a broke off licking branch on the main trail heading out of the swamp. I decided to set up the camera facing it because I could tell the area was being worn out. The deer I saw come back and chew on the branch and start hoofing at the dirt was just pathetic. He couldnt have been a yearling because he had a decent sized body (~125lbs). I think he looked to be at least 2.5 but you couldnt tell that from his horns. He had the smallest 4pt rack I have ever seen. They went straight up and were not even above his ears and the fork was hardly noticeable.

Please tell me that with some big 8 pointers in the area that they will breed all of the does?

well those big ole 8 points are probably his daddy, give him a couple years, but yes young bucks breed when they can, doesn't happen often, mature bucks seek the does out when they approach estrus (s) the younger bucks just chase everything.
RR

lol I guess I took the thread title totally wrong.

Same here. Its a lifestyle choice (not that theres anything wrong with that) :o

If you read the title and then look at his screen name, it's easy to think what we thought. :D

Well, I'm glad its not just me.

I had the same thought when i saw the title...:s2:

I read an article once that tracked this very thing in a scientific study. They were saying that most mating actually is by the less dominant bucks.

It was mainly a matter of numbers. The big bucks simply weren't numerous enough to mate with all of the does, and that gave the smaller bucks plenty of opportunity.

It did vary though. Opportunities for the lesser bucks came in the peak of fertility.

working in radiology does allow for some good puns.

i remember hearing similar things. Someone with a lot of big deer on his property did a study. He said all the big bucks did was fight each other and the little ones snuck around and mated with all the does.

I think males of any species, without regard to size, will breed any female that can get to. Bigger bucks may try to prevent it but there are too many females to prevent smaller bucks from mounting a good number of them.

I have done a lot of elk hunting and when it comes to elk there are herd bulls that try to contain all the cows. Problem is as soon as another bull comes along and challenges the herd bull it distracts him and a younger bull nearly always uses that chance to breed one or two cows. Seems logical to assume the same thing would happen with deer.

I was going to post the same thought (in bold) but flags beat me to it. :biggrin:

I don't have nearly the experience hunting that he has, but the rest of what he says makes a lot of sense.

Ditto. I've seen plenty of small bucks getting busy. When opportunity knocks, they are gonna try and capitalize.

At the rate I've seen mature does without fawns this year, it appears that even with all the small bucks breeding they couldn't get to em all.

125lbs is certainly only a yearling and probably born late as a fawn. He will improve next year. Unless you live in The Keys and he's a Keys deer.

I thought this was a family website...LOL!..:)

Not sure where you are hunting, but 125lbs (dressed) is a typical mature buck where I hunt. I've killed maybe 5 bigger than that in my life... out of well over 100. (VA / WV)

BTW, we weigh most of our deer on a scale, and after years of informal testing and hundreds and hundreds weighed... I've found that almost everyone that doesn't weigh their deer on a regular basis, overestimates how much their deer weigh by a good bit.

I've won a good bit of money over the years challenging some of my buddies who "claim to know" how much their deer weigh. I won $50 one time from a buddy who swore his buck weighed 180-185lbs dressed and I looked at it and told him no way. He told me I was full of it, so we bet. He didn't know I had my scale in the truck... it weighed 149. LOL.

Where we hunt in central and West central Wisconsin the last two bucks I shot were 206 lbs and 212 lbs. However most are around 175 give or take. So 125 would be relatively small for a mature buck around here. I'm not sure about does as I've never weighed a doe.

As far as young bucks breeding with does. We have considerably more does than bucks where we hunt and I'm sure it happens over there. To what degree I couldn't tell you.

My last buck dressed out at 185lbs. We believe it was 4.5 years old. This is upstate PA. We weigh all our deer. Had several doe that dressed out 120lbs plus.

The small bucks will get plenty of action. Big bucks will tire from fighting and not have the energy to fight more or do anything else. Some lucky young buck strolls into the area and he wins the lottery. Another thing is that big bucks won't always be around when every doe is ready.

Maybe in PA. But in many places in the deep south, 125 lbs is the weight of most bucks that are taken. I did a lot of hunting in FL and the heaviest I ever saw there was taken by my father and it weighed at 155.

There are darned few 185 lb dressed buck taken in PA, darned few, and even fewer at 200 lbs. I live and hunt in a part of PA that has big deer, generally a lot bigger than upstate PA and a 150/160 lb deer is a big deer anywhere in the. In addition, a deer of the year that that weighs 125 would be very unusual and certainly not late born. Me thinks you need a new scale! Additionally, an 80 lb key deer buck is considered good and doe run 45 to 50 lbs.

When I get to my computer I'll post several that top 185 dressed.

I hunt Hardy county wv and shenadoah county va, va weighs all bucks killed, largest I ever weighed were 2 4.5 yo 9 points that weighed 126#'s gutted with the heart and lungs still in them. have taken one in wv that I m positive that as heavier.
RR

Here are three mountain bucks from upstate. The old "scrawny mountain deer" stereotype is long since done. There are big, mature bucks in the big woods that no longer live on over-crowded ranges. I would argue that 5C and 5D are over-crowded with too many deer and that they are not the biggest bodied deer in the state.

those fawns were lost to eagles coyotes, and bears
RR

Not the best picture, but I'm sure this buck dresses more than #125.

So I don't seem sexist, here's a nice doe.

put'em on the scales
RR

Here's a 5-pointer my buddy shot a while back.

Some deer you can eyeball to determine that they beat 125 or even 185. I've only shot one buck that reached the latter. Most of my bucks have been 1.5 - 2.5 years old. But I've seen plenty of hogs and have seen buddies and neighbor's pigs as well. I just haven't had the same luck as them in harvesting them consistently.

like I said put them on the scales, you will never know for sure till ya do
RR

What do you think the first three weigh?

Those first three are definitely big. But my guess is they are the exception, not the rule. I'm sure your deer are probably bigger than ours, but on avg... probably not that much bigger.


RR, you and I hunt the same deer...I hunt hampshire and frederick. Mountain deer. If you go a couple counties over from me (east) they gain about 20-40lbs on avg over what we get. Biggest we ever got was 145 totally field dressed.

The scale will make even the best weight guessers feel stupid. Almost everyone way overestimates.

Three more exceptions to the rule. The reason they are the exception is because mature bucks are the exception. We see many more 1.5 and 2.5 year old bucks and a few 3.5 year old bucks. 4.5 year olds and older are not see with much frequency.

Yesir, those are some big body deer. I'd love to get one like that someday. Even our mature bucks just aren't big body. My dad killed a 5.5yr old 2yrs ago that weighed 119 dressed on the DNR scale.

Yes. I have shot them right off the doe.

you will find in most cases smaller ie younger bucks do most of the breeding, It does not matter the age of the buck breeding as long as they have good genetics.. Several studies in recent years have shown that many larger buck don't participate in the rut at all...

I am the exact opposite. Literally every single doe I have seen this year had fawns. Im not exaggerating at all. Had a doe come out Wednesday afternoon that still had twins in tow.



150 is the average mature buck in SC it seems. I have killed 3 bucks this year, which is a lot for me since I usually only kill 1 or 2 a year. Shot a 8, 9, and a 10 and their weights in order were 160, 152, and 149. Those weights are NOT dressed. I dont process my own deer so I just get the weight when I drop them off with guts intact. Also my average for Does seems to be ~90.

Ah, you're in SC. The deer are a little smaller in the south than the north. We are in northern PA. On top of a mountain. Our winters are brutal and the deer seem to be big-bodied. Last winter, we hit -26.

So your mature bucks are about like ours where I'm at in VA/WV. All ours are weighed field dressed.

Cool you are seeing lots of fawns, our fawn crop is down it seems, at least on my land it is.