is Camo really necessary?
 

Would Hunting Whitetail be any less plausible without wearing Camofladge?

Many jurisdictions require hunter orange during the gun seasons and some have minimum requirements. For example, CO requires a minimum of 400 square inches on the front and back of the person while WY allows just a hunter orange cap to be legal. Camo helps break up the human form and definitely ups your chances of not being seen, but remaining still is a big factor in an animal not seeing you.

Absolutely not! How did primitive man kill with spears and bows eons before camo? Our grandfathers hunted and killed deer before WW2 when deer populations were a fraction of what they are today, most did so in old work clothes or if they were "serious" they wore a red flannel suit. Of the "big 3" defenses on a whitetail (nose, ears and eyes) I think their eyes are the weakest. You can beat their eyes, you can "confuse" their ears but flatout defeating their nose is TOUGH without playing the wind. If you can hide behind a blind of some sort (natural vegetation is the best) then it really wont matter if you are wearing a Santa suit!

I honestly don't even care about camo during gun season, now I take my orange off while on stand. (Im a landowner and in TN I don't even have to wear it on my own land but I still usually do while moving on the ground.) The "contrast" is what gives you away when wearing bright orange. If legal, orange camo IS a little better than stark, unbroken bright orange. But again, that's just contrast, not really color perception. If you wear a white sheet over your body and take off through the spring woods, you'll look like Casper going through and will EASILY be identifiable. If you wear that same white sheet in those same woods in December while the woods are blanketed in snow, you'll blend in awfully well. That's contrast for you! For bowseason or turkey season yeah I'll wear camo but I honestly could careless what kind it is and might have 3-4 different kinds on me at once between my hat, facemask, shirt, gloves, pants, boots etc... I DO believe in keeping my face and hands covered as they are usually the most likely parts to be moving and that detecting that movement is what a deers eyes do best for them. They can't see precisely at long distances but they can flat out pick up movement, particularly at "bowrange" distances.

The whole "camo fad" has become a big indu$try since the late 80s with it's primary concern not being "gettin close to critters" but more likely "gettin close to hunters wallets!" "Earthtones" like browns, olives, grays, tans etc... that will blend you in fine for any deer hunting over 20-30yds, and if you sit still they'll work fine well inside that range even. In fact the vast majority of "tree like/shaped" camo becomes a dark blob at distances much over 30-40yds anyway.

Be still, move slowly when you must, hunt the wind and try to see them before they see you! :wink:
HL

Breaking up your outline, keeping odd sounds down, and not revealing movement is key. I can testify that movement at close range will send them running for the hills, regardless of how good your camo is. Also, it is said they see blue, so don't wear blue. Keeping your distance, if you can, is also key. Sound and light intensity drop off according to the square of distance. So twice as far = 1/4 as much light and sound. Otherwise, I think camo is most important to those selling it.

The same way primitive tribes hunt today. They apply to their bodies natural camouflage of ash, mud, or char, and wrap themselves in skins and furs, also natural camouflage.

For what it's worth, camo DOES pay itself back in hunting success, and doesn't usually cost much more than any other "cold weather clothing". Scent covers are worthless.

I killed all of my deer for about a decade wearing a BLUE denim carhartt wool lined jacket. Occasionally threw a ghillie poncho over the top. Once that jacket finally needed replacing, I simply bought a camo jacket, for about the same price as a new Carhartt. It's undoubtedly noticeable how much easier it is to move undetected in camo vs. that old blue jacket.

Our archery season is often too d@mn hot to wear anything more than a T-shirt. I've adopted to wearing camo under armour heatgear on those days (it was 93degrees at 5pm last season one evening), as I've noticed I get busted a lot more often when my arms are exposed in a T-shirt than when wearing full sleeve camo.

I do, however, like to keep multiple sets of cold weather clothing. I do a lot of wood cutting in the cold, so I have a set of carhartts (bibs and jacket) that perpetually smells like 2 stroke exhaust. I have another set for snowy weather work that's waterproof. Then I have my camo clothes, which I TRY to not let smell like cow$hit and chainsaw exhaust. I got a great deal on some snow camo a few years ago, only have $150 into a pair of bibs and the jacket (something like 20% off of half price), and my other set is "standard" green/tan.

No, camo isn't necessary
 

But I'm so old, I can remember when camo wasn't generally worn by the military.
If you're young, how do you really avoid camo.
And avoid a gps and use a compass; avoid a electronic distance finder and use your eyeballs; sight a rifle with a mechanical electronic device, while some oldtimer is using a big orange vase to sight in.
Some things can still work, but can never be accepted again. By newbies anyways.

No. But it is big business!

Bingo. We have a winner. You can hunt effectively using brush and things of that nature to break up your outline and by moving very slowly and quietly or sitting still. But none of that puts any money into the pockets of those that make or endorse camo.

I always get a kick out of the shows that have hunters decked out in full camo when they are sitting in blinds that are completely enclosed. I've never seen a deer yet that can see through plywood or plastic.

Does camo help break up the human form? Yes. Does it help with hunting? Yes. Is it absolutely necessary? Nope.

Camo
 

I only wear camo when I bow hunt.Rifle season , I wear my wool, green plaid coat now, Carhart or wool pant's depending on the temp's. There were a lot of deer and other game killed while wearing the old red plaid
Pennsylvania Tuxedo. I think learning hunting skills is still the best way to hunt , than buying every new gadget that come out.:cool:

I doubt I ever wore any cammo my first 20 or so years of hunting deer ... about 1985 I think was about when I bought a bunch of Army "woodland" seconds at a local garment factory.

I have always worn darker woodsy colors ... browns, greens, charcoal. And I now ware cammo stuff 99% of the time. Of course, it is hard to qualify a XXL hunter orange vest as cammo !! I read that deer are more or less color blind anyway. That may be, but according to what I have experienced these past 45+ years, deer are extremely sensitive to movement,especially a quick movement.

I do think that woodsy colors do help "hide' the hunter, but certainly the "latest-greatest" cammo pattern is not a magic bullet. My opinion is that the cammo craze is more a product of industry hype rather than a hunter's "need" being met. Just wish I had thought of it !!

Actually, for deer hunting, the most important thing you can do is wash your clothes with a non-UV preserving soap, then lay them outside for half the summer, flipping them every couple of weeks. Then wash them in that "hunting" laundry detergent from then on. If you sit in a chair using camo net like I do many times, this applies to that equipment too.

Deer see in UV spectrum. I've done some test that would blow your mind but I have deer walk within point blank range all the time. Texas A&M studies have shown that your clothes makes you look like a glowing blue blob. Apparently deer see certain colors but not like us. I have sat out back naked just to test these theories and its all true. Since you ain't gonna hunt naked, do the above process.

Texture and shadow would be more important than pattern

Interestingly, the same study says that Hunter orange actually produces a spectrum similar to foilage so if you didn't do anything else, orange would be the best camo.

An interesting note to my test further my belief in the UV theory. I've watched deer stare at a freshly painted deer box blind where they would not even pay attention to a faded one, even if they have been in the woods for ten years. I don't hunt box blinds personally but know plenty that do. UV, You bet!

Smells coming from behind the deer, movement, some sounds, and UV is your greatest enemy. Deer listen, they watch ahead of them, and smell whats behind them.

Piss and poop, human smells, don't even factor in. I've killed many deer after a night of oysters and beer, where my bowls decided to activate under my tree stand.

I see so much game, folks think I'm lying, so I have to kill something or take pics now and then.

This depends a lot on how you are hunting. Im much more serious about camo when archey hunting, as opposed to hunting with a high-power rifle and watching a deer 200 yards out. It also depends on the time of year. I have had a buck run right towards me while I was sitting on a white plastic bucket during the rut. Sometimes when it is really cold we will sit on a hilltop in the truck and its not uncommon for deer to run right up past the truck. Again, this is during the rut and they get a little preoccupied. Camo def. isn't the first purchase I would make....

It doesn't matter when you're in your truck; it matters more once you get out of your truck !!!

Be stealthy and remaining motionless when "need be" is the most important IMO.

They lived outside and had a lot more vacation days with which to hunt.

Wonder what their success ratio was? Blown stalks?

I think that the previous posts pretty much covered it. When I was younger, I hunted from the ground with a long or recurve bow. I really did not care care what I wore, as long as it was quiet. Usually a solid green surplus field jacket and what ever pants I had on. The only thing I worried about was my hands and face. When you spot someone in camo, it is always the white that catches the eye first. To this day I still wear brown cotton gloves when rifle hunting, even though I quit smoking years ago. I noticed a HUGE difference with gloves on. The smoke is not a problem, it is the hand movements. I have had deer within 8 feet of me with a steaming cup of coffee on the log and a cigarette in my hand. Wind direction is everything. Blaze orange? I like to use the camo orange. In laurel in the snow it seems to be invisible to deer. I have always thought experienced deer can pick out orange in low light or up against a dark background. UV studies are nonsense. I wash my clothes with regular detergent and always have. Another sales pitch. I did have a pet fox once and he was scared to death of people that walked toward him wearing camo. I don't know what that means, just some food for thought.

Breaking the outline seems to be key. I think your camo could be pink and yellow and it would be just as good. Ghillie suits offer the ultimate since they destroy your outline with the foliage effect. But even so, one must not move. Camo with no ghillie helps, but not 1/10 as much as the seller's would want you to believe - just a little bit better than an old-fashioned plaid checkered hunting shirt. For natural "ghillie" I like to hunker down inside some evergreens as much as possible.

I have been in blinds that were not brushed in and not behind trees and deer picked them out and then focused on them, alert for any sounds, smells, and sights. Brush the blind in good and no problem however.

You can absolutely move if you produce no UV. I've walked around them naked scratching at leaves, they looked at me crazy but went about their business.

"They" might be onto something there! :s10:

I'm sure they are. But after reading all the crap studies, I just had to know! ;)

For many years "Studies" showed deer could only see black and white. What HS. I had a doe(Not a yearling)keep coming closer and closer stomping her foot when I was sitting behind a log. I thought she was looking at me. I had on a face net and she could not see my glasses. I had my quiver propped against the tree I leaning against, and that is what she was concentrated on. I had very bright dyed feathers on the arrows and she saw them. There were other deer milling about behind her and I knew it would end badly, so when she was just about in my face, I threw a handful of dirt at her. It was worth it to see it. This was long before the UV nonsense. Deer are not stupid, they learn (If they live long enough). The whole tree stand craze started because "Deer never look up". I have news for you, when they feel something is out of sorts, they start checking the trees. I have seen it.

A while back on one of the Outdoor channels, one of the guys on the show put on a bright red Santa Claus suit, climbed up into his tree stand, and arrowed his whitetail buck.

Ha, I know an outdoor photographer...
 

who has never worn a piece of camo. Never watched those cable hunting shows either. :sheep:

Deer do look up, see it all the time. I've actually seen a buck purposely wrap his antlers in some briars while on his hind legs to snatch them down.

They do know when something is out of place on many occassions

I'm a firm believer in the UV theory though. I'm not saying they can't see colors, many berries or poisons in nature are brightly colored.

"UV Theory" is mostly that... A lot of theory...

As a chemical engineer, I worked in the past with renewable resource and biodegradable 'green chemical' replacement products for synthetic UV brightners in laundry detergent. The spectral analytical tools we used to pressure test the products against the brightening agents used in existing commercially available brightening detergents is the same technology used in the "here's the proof" photography for "UV FREE" hunting washes and clothing.

Here's where the theory breaks down

First, recognize that all "color" on Earth is really only a matter of a physical property of the material. The item is not ACTUALLY that color, but rather the atomic or molecular structure of the item REFLECTS a certain spectrum of light and absorbs others, which causes our eye to view it as one specific color.

Therefore, a color can ONLY appear if there is light in its reflective spectrum emitted upon it. In other words, if I shine a red light on a mirror, it can only reflect a red light, never a green, and vice versa. If I shine a UV light on a red shirt, it will show up black, because it cannot reflect the UV light. Anybody remember "blacklights"???

Energy from sunlight comes to Earth emitted in different wavelengths of light. Depending on the study you read, only between 5-10% of the sun's energy is emitted in the UV spectrum, and ONLY UVA and UVB rays reach the surface of the Earth, as the high energy, ultra-short wavelength UVC spectra are completely washed by the Ozone Layer. The majority of UVA makes it to the surface, and only a portion of the UVB penetrates - arguably around 50% of it's total energy. Between 40-50% of the Sun's energy is emitted as "visible light", which is not scrubbed by the Ozone Layer. So if we vaguely assume 7% total UV, broken down into 3rds, kill the UVC, and half of the UVB, that's about 3.5% of the total energy.

Now, there are UV sensitive chemicals, which is what we use in UV brighteners, that reflect UV which help increase the overall reflective energy of a given material. The idea here is that it adds "brightness" to colors by increasing the total light reflected by the object.

So on a relative basis, visible light is somewhere between 5-8x more powerful within the total light spectrum as UV light.

Say it's a red shirt, and reds make up about 10% of the total Visible light spectrum. Assuming 45% visible energy, that's 4.5 units reflected on a red shirt. Add in the UV brightener, which isn't fully visible to the human eye, you gain about another 1-2 "units" of brightness on top of the Red Energy. Boom, brighter shirt.

Tying this all together:

On Earth, which is where most of us hunt deer, the visible light spectrum will always dominate the total light reflected by a given object.

IN LAYMAN'S TERMS - UV intensity is much weaker than Total Light and Visible Light intensities.

Consider this familiar experience: 20-30yrs ago you walked into a college party. The lights were on. You were wearing a black cotton shirt. Your shirt looked black with the lights on. But your buddy flips off the lights and suddenly the room has a blue/purple hue, your teeth look like they are glowing, and your black shirt is COVERED in white flecks. The cotton has natural UV reflectance, so every little fuzzball, pill, or knap on the shirt glows under the blacklight.

When the lights were on, the visible light spectrum dominated the exposed color, so you couldn't even notice the flecks, or your teeth.

THIS IS HOW OUR SUN WORKS. Even in dusk and dawn, Visible Light dominates the color as seen by animals. Some animals can be more sensitive to UV spectra than we are as humans, but deer still have a higher sensitivity to visible light than they do to UV light. THEREFORE, in the presence of visible light, they will see colors based on visible light colors, NOT based on the UV spectra. Colors will be brighter for them than they are for us, because of their higher sensitivity to UV "brighteners", but it's not a dominating light energy.

So no, "UV Theory" is nothing more than misconstrued and ill-applied science. It's like turning on your headlights during the day, nothing more.

Does UV light come in different wavelengths? Does nature seem to reflect certain wavelengths? Whats the first color to lose color in low light? Whats the last color to lose color?

Hey, I just fiddle with these things I read because thats what I do, all day, everyday. It is about reflected light.

My wonderment of the current subject started forty years ago when I took note that bubba in his worn out denim overalls killed more deer in similar conditions than the fella sporting the new camo clothes.

With that said and all the theories, I can place an old leather buckskin jacket, brand new camo, and sun bleached camo at thirty yard intervals with a pile of corn next to them, and I can tell you the ones they avoid. Thats saying a lot for Texas deer because they are corn freaks.

I take what I learn to other places.

No, but it helps, particularly a break up pattern and covering your shiny face.

So I assume they avoided the new camo?

I can tell you that my Grandfather never owned anything camo, used regular soap, shampoo and deodorant. If the truck needed fuel he stopped and put it in, never hunted off the ground. Never owned a gps or a range finder or even a scope come to think of it. He was still one of the best hunters I have ever known in his kacky Dickey’s work pants and shirt and Resist all 4 x rancher.

A lot of things can help you to be successful but none more than skill.

MZS,

I guess I misused the word "avoid" considering these billy goats. Texas deer are going to eat the corn, just a matter of when. They didn't "avoid" it, but were the most hesitant and suspicious leaving it for very last. Stomping and blowing for a while before eating and only after the first year deer went in first.

About the worst one I tried was a Nylon Shelled Gortex jacket

I wear camo, it costs about the same amount as any other clothes out there unless you buy into the scent control clothing. Primary reason I wear camo is not for the deer but for the other animals that can also alert the deer. Camo has saved me from spooking turkeys, squirrels, yotes. Each one of them especially squirrels are capable of putting deer on high alert and so my primary objective is to not alert deer, by any means.

Now one of my thoughts about the natural colors like a nature photographer, or even regular work clothes is i dont think deer associate them with hunting. Have been out many times outside of season and deer just dont seem to care about me. But as soon as they see you in camo or fatigues during deer season they are quick to take off. Have been in the field here on base with a group of Marines sleeping in their hummers and deer even walked right between the trucks in the dark not caring at all.

Yes, UV light encompasses a spectra range between 100-400nm. However, only the ~250-100nm range is able to penetrate the Ozone layer, so for all intents and purposes, natural sunlight UV on Earth can be considered to consist of ~250-100nm.

Yes, that is the definition of "color" in general. We are not able to SEE all colors that reflect, even though we are able to 'notice' enhanced UV brightening. But yes, all things in Heaven and Earth reflect light of certain wavelengths, which gives them their physical property of color.

Two parts to this answer:

As the sun rises or sets, the light 'rays' are penetrating the atmosphere at shallow angles. The first to 'fade', which is to say the first to start getting absorbed and/or reflected away from the surface by the Ozone Layer is the UV band. Longer wavelength light waves are better able to penetrate to the surface, which is why you'll see oranges and reds in the atmosphere as the sun rises and sets (the opposite end of the spectrum), rather than appearing BLUE as it does for the rest of the day - the blue, which is near the UV end, starts to get rejected/absorbed, and the reds/oranges/yellows start to dominate the penetrating light composition.

Beyond that, you have to consider how animals view "color" and light. The human eyeball contains two types (and a few subtypes within those two) of photoreceptors, rods and cones. When light intensity is high, the Cones are active, which allows us as humans to perceive colors. As a given wavelength of light enters the eye, it triggers different combinations of Red, Green, and Blue responsive cones, and the brain compiles those signals into their particular respective color. In low light conditions, the cones switch off, and the higher population Rods take over. Rods are NOT color sensitive, and only perceive intensity of total light in shades of grey.

So as the sun goes down, UV light gets scrubbed out, and the low intensity light triggers the eye to SWITCH OFF the color sensitive receptors in the eye. So bluntly - you can't see in color when it's dark, and "purple light" wouldn't be there to be seen if you could.

Couldn't agree more.

And again, the science doesn't support what hunters have misconstrued to be facts about UV perception of game animals and how important it is in terms of what you wear afield. When the light is high, the visible spectrum of light dominates the light field, and as light fades at dusk or dawn, the UV presence is even lower than it was at mid-day.

woof... Gotta take my nerd cap off now...

Nomercy, ain't nothing wrong with the "nerd cap". I find all the info over the years as something to keep me going. I try things and if it works with some consistency, I add it to my bag of tricks.

I know at twilight hours, nothing spooks a deer more than the weird glow off my stainless Remington barrel. I don't know what process they use but it glows like a Star Wars light saber. :s4:

This type of discussion is part of the fun of hunting to me, and if you've hunted enough you know us humans ain't as capable as we think we are.

doesnt matter if you dont give the deer a reason to look your way

I thought about this thread as I drove by the Gander Mountain yesterday (and did not stop). :wink:

I think thats the whole point, something about certain materials makes them pay special attention. That stuff I posted about how they react to two different shooting houses that have been on a field for ten years, one freshly painted, was enough for me. Eventhough there was nobody in the painted one, they could barely keep their eyes off of it long enough to eat some greens.

Reflected light and dispersion, and the coincidence that our photoreceptors are highly tuned to gather its particular "hue". Bead blasting creates a highly light dispersive finish, and overall, the barrel is "grey". In low light, our eyes switch over to rely solely upon the RODS for photoreception, which only see in grey scale. The lighter grey an object is, the higher intensity it appears to the Rods.

Additionally, your eye will exhibit a "saturation" effect where the rods start to turn off because of the degree of light exposed to them (degree in terms of "temperature", aka colloquial terminology for frequency). This is the same reaction to getting a flashlight shined in your eyes in the dark, previously you could see fine because the majority of your rods were active, the burst of light shuts them down, so now you're stuck with night-blindness until your eyes adjust back to the darkness. Rods are kinda like the big fluorescent lamps at stadiums, they turn off quick, but take some time to come back on.

So it's not really that your barrel is glowing, it's that it washes out your eyes and makes everything else seem darker. Your bright grey barrel, even though it's a matte finish, reflects a high grey that saturates some of your rods. To "cool" the light sensitivity, your rods switch off and everything else gets darker, except your light saber.