abnormal antlers
 

I need everybodys opinion. this november I shot what I thought was a huge doe but to my surprise it was a 150 pound buck with a three inch spike on one side and what looked like where an antler broke off on the other. then two days later I sat in the same place and shot what I thought was another huge doe but it was also a huge buck with a 6 inch spike on one side and what looked like a broken antler on the other. both deer came from the same place and I shot them withen 10 yards of eachother. is this a result of fighting, lower amounts of minerals, or genetic defect. any help is greatly appreciated.

I have no idea, but I'm wondering why you can't tell the difference between a doe and two "huge" bucks that had a 3" spike and especially the one that had a 6" spike sticking out of his head! My initial impression is that I wouldn't want to be in the same county where you hunt, but welcome to the site and we'll see what other comments you get!

No Kidding!!!

Umm. First lets be clear... Broken antlers are not "abnormal" antlers.

A rutting buck is a wannbe champion prize fighter... Win or lose (broken bones)things happen.

Now as Top pretty much said... How is it that you, don't know/can't figure out, What yer shooting at???

abnormal points
 

they were both at about 6:45 in the morning. and almost 200 yards away.

Not a viable excuse in my opinion. If you are not 100% sure what your target is, don't shoot. In some areas of the country you can only take deer of specific sex on a permit. If you thought you were shooting does but ended up with bucks that could be very costly if the tags in hand don't legally pertain to the animals.

As to your question on the deer, some areas have very poor minerals which lead to thin and weak antlers. Buck fight each other and also can be pretty aggressive when making rubs. If the minerals content of the soil is bad they may just be breaking them that way. I spent 4 years in Pensacola and that area has poor minerals for antler growth. I shot several bucks that had busted up antlers there.

But, I knew when I squeezed the trigger they were bucks.

I examined each of them for at least 10 minutes. I am a very ethical hunter and would never shoot anything that I was not 100% sure was legal. Any true hunter would realize its just one of those things that happens to almost every hunter. if your hunting deer, duck,turkey, ect... it just happens.

***So examine them for another ten minutes and wait until there is enough light to be 100% sure of what you're shooting at. It would appear that you would have to have had either sex tags or two doe tags to do what you did and not only once, but twice!!! What type of tag did you have that you could shoot those bucks legally when you thought they were does? When the same person shoots two deer the way you have described by mistake it also makes the rest of your post pretty lame. Sorry, but your initial posts on this site do not make you look very good. I've shot over 100 big game animals in many years of hunting and have never made the mistake that you have now made twice within the period of three days---just sayin!!!

I could see it happening. 200 yards...you have tags for either sex and don't care if it has horns or not...You shoot the deer and find it has a 6 inch spike.

Plausible I think.

***Yes, that is plausible, but if that's the case in this particular instance then why did he look them over for 10 minutes before shooting if he had either sex tags? The way he has posted it sounds like he is admitting to two mistakes that may have been game law violations. It just sounds fishy to me because he didn't say either one was shot on an either sex tag! I guess we should look into the MO regulations to see what is legal and how many bucks you can legally shoot there. Any MO folks reading this thread want to weigh in on this situation?

considering they only had 1 spike. and they where about a half an inch around. I think the argument could be made. and on the matter of tags. Missouri spike limit is three inches so the first one was legal. the second one was just a mistake that I have to live with. but nobody is going to see 1 three inch spike from 200 yards away. like I said I have been hunting for years and pride myself as a hunter that abides by the law. I have let many bucks walk right by because I could not count the points. and I have let a lot of spikes go by that where obviosly illegal. but I would never carelessly shoot a deer like some of you people are suggesting. that is an insult to me and everything I stand for as a hunter.

So consider it an insult, but the truth has now come out that you violated the law and didn't contact the DNR to tell them of the mistake you made on one of them! I smelled a rat as soon as I read your post and saw you were from MO and pretty well thought they had a one buck rule. If you're such an ethical hunter you shouldn't have shot an animal that early in the morning at that distance if you didn't have an either sex tag---no ifs, ands, or butts. Then to not turn yourself in like the law requires when you make a mistake like that just compounds your problem and doesn't speak very highly of your ethics. Not only that, but you have now come on the internet and posed a question concerning what I thought might be illegal activities and then admitted you have committed a serious game law violation---not too smart there pardner!!!

I don't know but the benefit of the doubt is probably not a bad idea.

Ive looked at deer for hours and then shot them.....Why? Because I like to look at deer.

I would say the looking into the regulations part is supposed to be the step in front of the accusation part..

I'm in IL and I can kill two bucks but I'm not sure about MO.

I don't know. Ive never not cared about whether the deer had antlers.

I'm confused. If the first one was a legal antlerless wasn't the second one your legal buck?

That is one antlerless and 1 antlered deer right?

all im trying to say is that in Missouri we are issued a doe tag and a buck tag. in Missouri you can use a doe tag on a doe, a button buck, or a buck that has a spike of three inches. I legally killed and tagged the first buck because it had a spike of three inches. as for the second buck there is no excuse. I made a mistake. I thought I was legal. I had no clue it was a buck. it was in a ground with two other does. it was not rutting so its body frame looked like a doe. I saw what I thought were three does in the field. and I shot the biggest one.

you are correct.

well then just say that for crying out loud. I see what you are saying and how it could happen, but you should have just said how you tagged them. we have the same rule in ny for doe tags with spikes of 3" or less.

easier regs in Iowa
 

If a deer has no forked antler, put an antlerless tag on it. You guys are giving this guy grief, maybe for reason, but if we had a picture of this deer, maybe you would back off a little.
Here's a picture of a buck that fooled me. I was hunting private property where the land owner only wanted does shot. M-loader shot at about 60 yards. Light ok, late afternoon. In timber. Deer came out around some trees, looking almost directly at me. Ears up and alert. The picture shows the right side. The left side was only a mass of "bone" about 3 inches in diameter and 3/4 of an inch high. Now look at that antler..... The top is light colored and hid real nice in front of the ear which is also light colored. The dropped part is dark colored and tucked along the darker colored face. I simply didn't notice the rack and killed the deer. When I rolled him over to field dress him and saw nuts, I was very surprised. Because of obvious bad genes, the land owner was glad I got him out of the woods. I put my any sex tag on him and was legal. Give me grief if you want, but the same thing would probably happen to you.

Is that buck tag strictly for a buck or is it an either sex tag?we dont have buck tags here just either sex tags.

***This still means he ATTEMPTED to violate the law EVEN IF he had already tagged the first deer with the 3" spike with his one anterless tag. He specifically stated in his first post that he shot the second one that had a six inch spike thinking it was a doe. If he had already used his doe tag on the 3" buck, he obviously shot at a deer he thought was a doe and didn't have a doe tag to legally use on the 6" buck, but was lucky it qualified as a buck and could use his buck tag on it. The only way he should have shot at that second deer he thought was a doe was if he was issued TWO doe tags and still had one of them left. Therefore, even if he was legal as far as the way he ended up tagging them, I"ll stand with my previous staements. I also would like to know why he says he made a mistake that he has to live with. That comment sounds like an admission of committing a violation, rather than just a booboo that was resolved by legally tagging them, especially with his longest post responding to mine regarding the mistake.

You beat me to the punch!thats why i asked about a buck tag being an either sex tag.always be sure of your target and beyond! This is a number one rule for many reasons.

***The reason I'm busting this guy's chops is that he told me in his response to my question that the first one was legal, but the second one was a mistake and that he will have to live with that. Doesn't that sound like he is saying he violated the law and when I stated he should have contacted the DNR about that mistake he made no comment one way or the other? All he needed to say in response to my question was that he was able to legally tag the second deer with a buck tag he had, but he didn't offer that up. For him to ethically and legally shoot at the two deer he did in MO they would have either had to have issued him two "either sex" tags or two doe tags, neither of which he had for the second deer if it had been a doe. I don't see how he can say he's ethical when he specifically says he only had a buck tag left when he shot that second deer that he thought was a doe. We are not only talking about knowing your target but what appears to be an intent to violate the law when he shot that second deer. Am I missing something here Skinnner?

Seems to me you are correct.he was lucky in the fact the second deer was a buck but it appears he attempted to harvest two does.am i missing something here?

Was the second tag an either sex tag or was it strictly for a buck?sorry im not fully understanding this.

in Missouri as you know we get a doe tag and a ANY DEER tag. the ANY DEER tag is your buck tag, or you can use it on a doe if like. so that is why I shot the second one that I thought was a doe because I can use my any deer tag on a buck or doe either one.

Ok thanx for clearing that up.so there was no attemp to break any laws and it never made any diffrence to you Or the law if you took a doe or buck with your either sex tag.i can see this as plausable.but you should have stated that in your post to begin with not labeled as a mistake as you stated.

Skinnner---I think I will have to call BS on that last post of his, as I did not see any mention of such a tag when I looked up the MO Deer Regulations. The Regulation states that one antlered buck is all they can kill during their firearms season unless they are hunting in one of what they call their "managed areas" and he wasn't. An antlered deer in MO is: "a deer with at least one antler a minimum of 3" long". Therefore, it would appear the OP has possibly violated the law by taking two bucks with a 3" or longer antler with a firearm because he wasn't in a managed area where they were shot and one, the 3" first buck, was tagged with a doe tag. If I'm correct and was the OP after making the statements on this website that he has, I would go turn myself in to the nearest DNR Office and hope they let him off with a warning or small fine. To do otherwise is risking a lot worse if he is turned in by someone reading this thread or if an Officer reads it. The latter is very possible because more and more arrests for poaching are being made that waywith some Officers actually assigned to watch the internet for suspicious stuff. I'm aware of one myself out in WY near where I hunt and the kid is in prison for multiple poaching incidents that put them into felony status. He was caught when he posted one of the illegal bucks on the internet saying where it was killed and several people that knew the buck actually lived 30 miles from there in a closed unit called the G&F. An investigation on that deer by the G&F led to other big deer being found and he got what he deserved. If I'm incorrect on this case I offer my apology, but that's what I read in the MO Regulations.

thats exactly right.

Yes this would indeed change everything if the three inch buck is legaly considered a buck!this reminds me of bullcamp saying the other day about people these days wanting to video themselves or post things on a forum or facebook for all the world to see.Is there anything the op wishes to add?

I just looked it up and as top stated a buck is a deer with a 3 inch spike.if it is under 3 inches it is an animal you can tag as a doe.so ummm was that spike 3 inches or less?

Skinner---I did edit that post you C/Pd for spelling and made a couple of other changes while you were putting your last post up, but it is still essentially what you put up in your post. I may be missing something and maybe the OP can show me where MO has an "either sex" tag, but that still would only take care of one of the two deer and the other the way I see it would have been taken illegally.

three inches or less is legall for a doe tag. this buck was three inches so therefore it can be tagged with a doe tag. go to: mdc.mo.gov go to permits, click on any deer, and you will clearly see that is says one antlerd deer or antlerless.

***It will probably be less than 3" when you get a reply back, if the OP responds. :rolleye0011::busted:

Yup that would be a violation of game laws.im intrested in hearing what the op has to say.The three inch rule would mean two bucks were harvested on a doe tag and a either sex tag.

Haha yea....you should always fully understand the law,ignorance is never a good excuss.

No.i states a buck with LESS then three inches.thats what im reading.3 inches and beyond is considered a buck.

***That is exactly what the law reads to distinguish a buck from a doe! 3" is a buck!!! So let's say that it had a little less than a 3" spike and was legally tagged as a doe. That takes care of his one buck license that they issue IF you can shoot what is classified as a doe on it. What is the deal on shooting at what he thought was a doe that turned out to be a buck with the 6" antler. Whether that deer was legally tagged with a buck tag is at issue now if they only issue one buck tag for other than managed areas. The fact that it was killed with the intent of it being a doe with no remaining tags for a doe the way it looks like is troublesome to say the least. It appears that you can shoot from one up to as many does as you want with the proper doe tags depending on what county you're in. To clear this whole mess up the OP really needs to take a few minutes and state what county he was in and exactly what kind of tag each deer was tagged with. Hopefully, that will at least clear up whether he violated the law, as we've already said you shouldn't shoot at what you don't know for sure that you have a tag for.

Call me suspicious but I find it kind of convenient the buck in question is exactly the length of the cut off. Are you sure if someone else laid a tape to it that it would be exactly 3 inches and not 3 1/8th? Funny thing about antlers is that they are rarely completely straight and the measurement on the curved surface can vary depending on where the tape is laid. That is why major trophies close to world record status are always scored by a panel.

Now if both deer are completely legal and properly tagged, no problem. But you cannot look at your original post and come to that conclusion. I'd say you got lucky because that 3 inch spike could have very easily been 3 1/4 and then we're talking a different matter. Lesson learned. Check your target very, very carefully. 1/4 of on inch can make a big difference. Just a suggestion but if you commonly have deer at 200 yards and can look at them for 10 minutes before shooting you should invest in a good spotting scope. A 36X scope will let you see a 3 inch spike at that range. and therefore eliminate this from happening again.

Good post Flags, but IMHO at 200 yards WITH PROPER LIGHT he should be able to see that antler at 9X with a 3x9 rifle scope that is commonly used nowadays.

Flags...3inchs is not the cut off,less than 3 inches is the cut off.the op should read what top just said and think about it.

I agree he should, but the ear could easily hide a 3 inch spike so I'll cut him some slack on that if all he had was a scope. He didn't mention what he was using so it is entirely possible all he had was a 4x. I've shot a lot of game at 200 yards with nothing more than 4x. And remember he did say it was at 0645 so he didn't have proper light. At best this was probably only a little after legal shooting light and that is never the best light for picking out details at a couple hundred yards.

But with a good spotting scope, he would have seen it. Personally, I'd rather hunt without shoes than leave my optics behind. But then, that's me and my viewpoint and others don't have to agree if they don't want to.