Something to think about...bigger bucks
 

Something to think about...
"We all gear up for the season, eager to get out in the stand. We've all got the same thing in the back of our mind, we wanna shoot the big one this year! In order for that to become a reality, a lot of things have to change, starting with your ego. You need to get it out of your head right now that you have to shoot a buck every year. Deer hunting for quality bucks takes self control. You can't shoot that year and a half old 4-6 point every year at 8:00am on opening day. Why? Because you just shot a would be trophy two to three years down the road. They can't get any bigger in your freezer folks! Oh you just hunt for the meat? Then why did you pass up the four does you saw before the little buck walked in? Get off your ego high horse! Besides, we all know that does taste better anyway. Ever read up on deer management? You forget the part where they mention shooting does too?

But if you let it keep walking, the next guy will shoot it? Enough with the excuses already. It's a possibility, but hopefully they exercise proper deer management and aren't as full of excuses as you.

Hunting is a lot like fishing, it requires patience, persistence, and preparation. But here is where Hunting is different. Unlike fishing where you can't decide what is gonna bite that hook, in hunting you have to choose to aim at a specific animal and pull the trigger. In hunting, it's entirely up to you on which animals you harvest. You should be able to judge sex, size, and maturity of the deer before you shoot. If you can't, it pry wasn't the best opportunity to take a shot. What gets me more than people shooting small bucks is intentionally shooting yearling bucks, buck fawns, button bucks or whatever you may call them.

This was directed towards veteran hunters, who have harvested many deer in their lives. For people who are new to the sport or have never shot a buck, go ahead and shoot whatever. You will remember your first deer/buck for the rest of your life. My neighbor just got his second buck of his life last week and he's in his early 50's and been hunting for years. It wasn't a monster, but it sure was a trophy for him. He was smiling from ear to ear and I couldn't have been happier for him.

Thanks for letting me rant. Good luck out there."

Not everyone that shoots a small buck is going to have a chance to be picky.There are a lot of places that only allow you to shoot one deer and you need to draw special licenses to take a doe, most western states are this way. Then there are places like CA where you ain't gonna shoot a doe period! When I was stationed in CA, you shot the buck you saw because you might not see another. Right now I'm hunting VA, but this screwy state has designated doe days. So if I'm hunting on a day that isn't a doe day I can't shoot one. Should I let the buck walk if he isn't a monster because I can't legally kill a doe if I am hunting for the freezer? Last year in VA I shot a spike and a 7 pt. I never had a legal shot at a doe. Those 2 deer fed me and the wife for the year and I refuse to accept your premise that I should not have shot either one.

I come from a family of meat hunters. I really don't care how big a set of antlers are. All they are is a few inches of bone. I also believe the current trend of focusing only on big antlers does a serious disservice to hunting. Anti-hunters are always looking for ammo to use against us and hunting for big racks gives them something to use. It is hard to criticize a guy that hunts for meat, public surveys show this to be true. But "trophy hunting" is another story.

Feel free to disagree if you wish. But I'll take the deer that I have a shot at and not worry about the one I may never see.

Flag, I understand where you're coming from. I pondered upon this and wanted to see what others thought about it and thought it would be a good discussion. My family only harvests what we will eat (except coyote). I also agree that the antis don't need any ammo against us. The state I hunt in does not have designated doe days, that does sound screwy. I do relate to this though because I know some guys that complain about shooting small bucks and it baffles me. I just wanna say, then don't shoot it if you're not happy with it!

Good post flags, I agree. If you're hunting YOUR LAND his philosophy might hold true. Letting smaller bucks go so that they can grow will work if you don't have to worry about somebody else shooting them, like on Public Land where it's usually the first legal buck that get's shot. Reality is reality.

I hunt State Land where it's bowhunting only, so I do actually let smaller "legal" bucks walk. In fact, I let this little guy go at 10yrds on Halloween, as he proceeded to walk right in front of my trail cam! I don't have control over what others shoot, but I have control over what I shoot. :s4: If it's legal, shoot what makes YOU happy!

I love venison, first. I like a big rack; a big buck with a great rack gets me super excited and it is amazing to admire such an animal before and after the harvest. But that isn't why I do it. I admire and give thanks for every deer I take for several moments before I dress it out. A bigger set of antlers does not increase the value of the life of an animal to me. Nor does a smaller (or complete lack of a) set of antlers diminish the value of the animal or the hunt. YOU are assigning value to something SUBJECTIVE and making it the BASIS of your little rant.

I like venison to be my primary source of red meat for the entire year. I would rather have plenty of venison on hand than a lack thereof with a nice mount on my wall. Oh, and NOTHING is tastier than a fawn. I take one every season and don't care if it's a buck or doe.

Not sure where you're hunting, but down in Sussex county every day during general gun is either sex. Dinwiddie county has doe days though. I interpreted your post as all of VA is doe days only for does. That is incorrect.

Youth and apprentice is either sex statewide. Early and late archery season is either sex for the entire season except PALS in Dickenson county. Urban archery is does only. Early muzzleloader is either sex for the full season except on National Forrest lands in certain counties and a few other counties. And a lot of counties are either sex for the full firearms season.

I more or less am with you on this except for the anti-hunter argument - guys that hunt and manage trophies are also the types that would never waste the meat. Even if they don't eat it they will donate it to food shelves or charities. The other type of trophy seeker (I won't use the term hunter) is the poacher, and I think there is a pretty good distinction between them and the QDMA types - night and day. I am not a trophy hunter, but if that is what some want to do, fine by me. And at times I will go for the trophy as well.

My personal opinion at 38yrs of age and someone who has killed well over 100 deer as I live in a very liberal harvest state of MD is this. Do not shoot little deer period wether its private or public land. If you do there is 0 chance it makes it to maturity and this thought process of oh my neighbor may shoot it or someone else who is public ground may shoot it is pure crap. Just some round about way for grown men to justify shooting some small ass deer. If you live in the some remote place where thats your only food for the yr thats a different story but honestly you know thats not the case. I wish every state in the U.S. had antler restrictions on deer for hunters over the age of 16. Killing a deer is a privelage and not a right and if some yrs we had to eat tag soup then so be it. So many people seem to take the approach of I bought a license and I will shoot whatever I want within the law and thats totally legal and totally fine but their the same damn people on here complaining they never see big bucks or asking us to age some 2.5yr old deer for em. I bet well more than 50% of us on here are fisherman and do you believe there should be no size regulations on fish either. Make for some pretty piss poor fishing in about a decade from now if that was the case. If you live in some BS state like CA then need to get people together to change the laws just like we did here in my home state and if you dont like the laws where you are then move or hunt another state. There is alot of truth that most and I say most of hunters mature and go thru a 5 step process and one of them being the trophy stage and understanding that numbers of states have harvest numbers in the 80%'s of yearling bucks and thats just pure disgusting to me. If nothing else they should do a small antler lottery just like some places do for does to eliminate the descimation of yearling bucks by grown ass men. So Dude Im with you on this one and tired myself of hearing all the excuses of why I needed to shoot a small buck. Might be a state here or there with tight doe regs but they are few and far between and as far as Im concerned the trophy hunter and doe hunter is heads and tails above the guy who shoots a four point who is standing with six does. Good post man and with you all the way.

My major problem with the above is that you want to force everyone else to do things the way you want. What about the guy that gets to hunt a single weekend out of the whole year and doesn't care about a big rack? Maybe he will only get one chance to fill his tag. Why should he have to do things your way? The state issues a license and the state says what is and isn't legal within the borders of that state, not you. I'm 50 years old and have taken at least 150 deer of several species, have hunted over 10 states, Canada and Africa and I'm not about to tell someone what animal to take. It is their tag and they can do as they wish as long as it is legal.

My home state of CO allows you to take 1 deer a season. If you want that deer to be a doe, you have to apply for a specific doe license. If you have a doe license, you cannot shoot a buck. If you get a buck license, you cannot shoot a doe. One deer is all you will get. A buck license is easier to get than a doe license so many people hunt bucks. And, you can only hunt a specific season. You cannot hunt archery, muzzleloader and all the rifle seasons. Some of the rifle seasons are as short as 5 days. You pick one during the drawing in April for a specific season and a specific unit and that is it. There are no statewide deer tags in CO, they are all unit specific. Most the western states are this way. Are you really telling me they should have to abide by rules you desire?

For what it is worth, CO tried a 3 pt or better rule for deer for nearly 10 years. They dropped it because it didn't have the desired effect. The deer herd did not increase in that time so it was dropped. When you start talking about nation wide policies, you're not being realistic since different parts of the country have different situations. How many wolves, bear and cougar do you have in MD that are preying on the deer? Winter in the Rockies is a lot different than winter along the East Coast. There is a big difference between MD and WY. Many people out west depend on deer and elk for meat and all the ones I know don't care how big the antlers are. No matter how you cook them, they are still tough. If you tried to tell them that some guy in MD has decided they can't shoot that young tender buck because it is too young, you'll probably get told where to go.

antler restrictions encourage bucks with poor genetics to reproduce.


I agree with the "if I pass him my neighbor will shoot him" is a bogus argument.

Which only matters if all you care about is antlers. Antlers are cool but that's not why I hunt.

I applaud you, Dude. You speaketh the trutheth.

I gotta say I think this

"I also believe the current trend of focusing only on big antlers does a serious disservice to hunting. Anti-hunters are always looking for ammo to use against us and hunting for big racks gives them something to use. It is hard to criticize a guy that hunts for meat, public surveys show this to be true. But "trophy hunting" is another story".

Is nonsense


You think shooting babies doesn't fuel these people?

You have every right to disagree but to tell me I'm doing a disservice to hunting based on anti hunters? You think I should give up my passion for hunting mature deer because of anti hunters?

I eat every bit of meat I kill just like you do. Shooting small deer doesn't make you any more of a meat hunter than me does it?

I hunt big mature bucks and I kill a few does as well. Usually 1 buck and several does every year......sometimes I get two bucks but usually just one. I bring the mature buck home just like the does and my family and I process the mature buck,package the mature buck,and he goes in the freezer mixed right in with the other deer and we eat him just like you eat yours.

That has never made sense to me. "I'm a meat hunter" well so am I.....my family lives on deer meat.

It seems to me that about 90% of the time "I'm a meat hunter" = I can't get a big one.

Its pretty hard for me to believe if there was a big mature buck and a 7 point standing side by side you would shoot the 7 point.

What bothers me is that there seems to be a stigma about shooting does. It is almost like some people are embarrassed by taking a doe. I hear phrases like “just a doe” or “I can’t bring myself to shoot a doe.” It’s like they feel that a doe is inferior to a buck. What I don’t agree with is when someone only buys a buck tag. Now I am not talking about states where there is a lottery for drawing a doe tag, where you’re only allowed one deer per season, or other similar situations. Where I hunt buck and doe tags are available and both cost $15. I think that the price of a doe tag should cost less than that of a buck though. Why? Not because I believe does are menial in any way, because they are not. I think this because I believe it would encourage more hunters to shoot does. This would help benefit the buck/doe ratio. This would also make a more affordable option to obtain your supply of venison. I would also be willing to pay more for a buck tag to counter some of the losses by lowering the price of doe tags.

I've been busted by a wise old doe many more times than I have a young buck. I believe it’s just as much of a challenge to get a shot (more so with a bow, but that goes for any deer) on a mature doe as it is on a buck. It just seems that some people need to be able to say that they've shot a buck regardless of size just so that they can pound their chest with pride. (Ego again?) I love seeing/getting big bucks, but I am just as thankful for harvesting a doe (which I do every year) as I am a buck. Both are utilized for their meat after the kill.

Do I let every small antlered deer pass? Not exactly. If a wounded deer goes by me, I will shoot it regardless of what it is (as long as I have a tag). I will also take management bucks to remove them from the heard. If I see what is clearly an older and mature buck with poor antlers for its age, I will try to remove it from the gene pool.

I believe you're reading more into my comments than need be. First off, there is absolutely no reason the believe any comment is about you personally. Nothing could be further from the truth. Comments are made in a general manner and not a specific manner.

My point on the current craze for big antlers is that nearly every recent poll taken about hunting has shown there is very little actual opposition about hunting for meat except for the die hard anti-hunters and they will always oppose all hunting. Those that "are on the fence" so to speak generally have no major issue with meat hunting. But, if you toss in hunting for big antlers, the polls shift. Take a few minutes and look up the national polls in the last few years and you'll see what I mean.

Even if every scrap of meat is utilized, which I believe every ethical hunter does, if the stated focus is on "big antlers" then that over-shadows the meat aspect in the eyes of many people. I'll be the first to admit that is foolish, but per the polls, it is what it is. As to the shooting of "babies", I've never seen any reputable poll with something like this. PETA polls are not really considered reputable so I immediately dismiss them. I'm not saying one doesn't exist but I've never seen it. When hunting season are held, there simply aren't any babies. Yearling? Yes. Babies? Nope. Anyone screaming about "killing babies" is probably one of the die hard anti's and you'll never reach them anyways.

To tell you the truth, as long as you take legal deer and you're happy with them, then I'm happy for you. If you choose to wait multiple season for just the "right" buck to offer a shot, more power to you. But, if someone else doesn't choose to do so, then don't criticize them for their choice as long as the deer is legal. I've seen many posts on other forums where someone posts a photo of a deer they proudly took only to have others blast them for "not giving it a few years". Not every hunter is concerned with antlers. Many hunt to spend time with family, or to enjoy the outdoors or to get some meat for the table. These are all honorable reasons to hunt and if the antlers are small, what does it matter to anyone besides the guy that took the deer?

As for me, if there were 2 deer standing and one was bigger than the other, I would take the first decent shot at either one. If it was the bigger deer, I'd shoot. if it was the smaller deer, I'd shoot. If one of them was a doe, I'd shoot the doe as long as I had a tag making her legal and she gave me a good shot. I'm simply not going to get overly carried away with the size of antlers. I've got a rafter full of deer, elk and antelope racks. Some big, some medium, some small. The next set of antlers I get will simply go on the rafter with the others if they even make it out of the field in the first place. But, this is me and I won't try to speak for anyone else.

You and others that agree with QDM are welcome to do so and I applaud your passion and your reasons. But don't expect everyone else to immediately go along with you. Different strokes for different people. Or, have we moved passed that and only your way is the right way? Sorry, but I refuse to accept that premise.

As always, feel free to disagree if you wish. My opinion is simply my opinion. It is no more right or wrong than anyone else's opinion.

It doesn't matter to me what you shoot. I wouldn't have said a word if you were just defending that. Its the criticizing of what I'm doing that I'm responding to and especially calling it a disservice to hunting based on the opinions of people you admit are foolish.

I don't really intentionally practice QDM . Ideally I prefer bucks that survive to be mature on there own. I prefer a mature buck that is mature because the other hunters couldn't get him. The rarity and difficulty is part of the attraction.

That is really not the point though. If your ready to call what I'm doing a disservice to hunting because some foolish people say so then I turn around and call what your doing a disservice to hunting because some foolish people decide they don't like that either then what? The foolish people win is what happens next.

To me the disservice to hunting is catering to the foolish opinions of anti hunters.

I blame Bambi. Literally.

...add the bombardment of cute little faces and voices added to game animals throughout their upbringing and most kids are anti-hunting right out of the gate.

Reading rockport and flags, I'm not seeing where you're truly in disagreement over much. Seems like do what's right is the rule. I'm going out tomorrow for what amounts to my first deer season and I've set my shooter level just above a spike. I would certainly let a spike walk but if it's a fork, it's on my fork if I can manage it. Plus, I got shut out of my doe tag darn it. In subsequent seasons I can imagine raising the bar a bit..

Why am I holding that fish in the picture in my avatar? 'cause he's BIG that's why. The day I'm able to replace my avatar to look like rockport's, that fish is gone! Let's not pretend that the peak accomplishment in whitetail hunting isn't a monster buck. If someone says they're just as happy with a doe, I'll simply accept it at that :rolleye0011:

Let me say again, my comments are general in nature and are not directed to you personally. It is kind of ludicrous for you to read such a general comment and take it as a personal slight. I wouldn't know you if you were walking down the street and said good morning. I am more than happy for you to hunt in any manner you wish and to take any legal game you have tags for. It does not matter to me what, if anything, you shoot. Now, let me ask you a question: Have you ever lived someplace where the right to hunt has been put to a vote of the public?

I have. My home state of CO used to have a really good spring bear hunt. Around 20 years ago, a bunch of anti-hunters got all bothered about it and collected enough signatures to get the hunt put on the ballot. For good measure they added on trapping as a rider because they didn't like that either. The hunters didn't take this threat seriously because after all, this was CO and it was CO before the recent influx of idiots from CA. and hunting was a big part of living in CO. Imagine our surprise when the measure passed and CO lost not only its spring bear season but also its trapping season. We never saw it coming and it was a real wake up call.

I offer the above as an example of what the anti-hunters can and will do if given the motivation and the reason to push something through. Hunters are in the minority in the country and I don't care what state we're talking about, the fact they are in the minority means that hunting can be voted out or seriously curtailed. Ask someone from CA about the Mountain Lion season there. You know, the one that got voted out by the anti-hunters.

The last thing I want to do it tell anyone what to hunt or how to hunt. I'm merely pointing out a different stand on the matter and also giving an example of how the constant focus on antler size can be detrimental to the sport. Like I said, look at the polls. By the way, the serious anti-hunters are not the ones we need to sway over to our side. They will always oppose all hunting and we will not change the way they feel. It is the non-hunter we need to keep in our favor and the polls show many of these non-hunters are in favor of hunting for meat but they are not real crazy about hunting for antlers. It is what it is. You don't have to like it and you can disagree all you want but remember what happened in CO because it could also happen in your state.

Your telling me the way I hunt is a disservice to hunting.... Yes I take that personally....obviously as I am part of the group you are calling a disservice to hunting.

I just can't say I agree with you at all. Your supporting ignorance and knowingly doing so.

You know damn well its nothing but a play of words. "Hunting for antlers" that phrase is designed to sound bad.

I don't "hunt for antlers" the poll is designed to get a desired result.

All your doing by siding with ignorant people with foolish ideas is making it easier for them to pick us apart.

It doesn't even make sense. If you eat the meat you are a meat hunter. The poll is a classic divide and conquer and your playing right in to it.

That is exactly how you get something voted out.

Flags, I've seen exactly the opposite here many times.

Someone will post a tcam pic, or a pic of a nice buck they've just taken, and ask what folks think it will score? Only to receive a half dozen negative comments like "Who cares, ya can't eat the antlers anyway?... and blah blah blah... IMO it's a bit irritating... Kinda like this thread.

IMHO, as long as what I'm doing is ethical, and legal, it's nobody Else's business to tell me what I should, or shouldn't be hunting/shooting... If someone shoots a small buck, or wants to know the potential score on a bigger one it baffles me why so many feel the need to make a negative comment about it???

I don't know... maybe it's just an internet thing, and I'm not properly interpreting the comments... Sometimes it's hard to judge sentiment on a forum. Perhaps some of the comments are said more in jest, than in criticism, but the comments are negative nonetheless. :confused0024:

You can't seem to get over the fact I'm talking generalities. I have no desire nor the inclination to get into a pissing contest with someone I have never met. You seem to think I'm your enemy and nothing can be further from the truth. Have you not noticed where I have said, numerous times, that I believe you should be able to hunt in any legal manner and to take any legal animal? Or are you just choosing to ignore it?

You have your opinion and I have mine. I happen to have first hand experience with having some of my hunting eliminated by the ballot. You obviously have not. I don't "support ignorance" but I have seen the results of it and only a fool would discount something they have seen with their own eyes. I hope you never have to see it, but your right to hunt may very well end up in the hands of someone else.

We are simply going to have to agree to disagree.

I'm not ignoring it as much as your talking in circles.

Its like saying I think fat people are a disservice to society but hey nothing personal to the fat guy in the corner....just fat people in general.:confused0024:

You think I should be able to hunt in any legal fashion I want but you say the way I do it is a disservice to hunting.

I think its BS that your saying what I'm doing is a disservice to hunting....and saying hey nothing personal doesn't fix that.

My guess is your hunting getting voted out is more closely related to hunters getting caught sleeping at the wheel and not voting and supporting each rather than trophy hunting.

It sounds like your willing to compromise the way I like to hunt in trade for being able to continue to hunt the way you like to hunt and that is exactly how we get picked apart and all of us get screwed in the end.

If you don't support the rights I like and I don't support the rights you like neither of us will have any rights.

North Face Outlet Denver provide sweet North Face summit series on sale
 

The point of making demands of outdoor products, while the more hardline function is not lethal but still charming, functional, fashionable style attention to be far behind, the main consumer groups increasingly value the clothes designed for creative, innovative degree and the rate can be updated.In 1877, however, Hansen and his wife set up shop in Moss, Norway, producing oilskins for the local market and becoming the world's first rainwear manufacturer. the north face clearance Girman said customers should consider the fill power of down (fluffiness or loft) and the quality of the stitching when purchasing a coat.The children's clothing that it markets is more of a necessity than a luxury, though brand recognition is strong. cheap north face jackets The new scanning process generates physically authentic and lifelike visualizations, a novelty that was hitherto only possible with considerable manual effort.Vecchione, who was hired in December 2004 and appointed CEO in 2007, will step down after a search for his successor is complete, company officials announced. In fact, some weeks there are so many kids in camp that special family hikes are offered. Schuster said the average person wouldn necessarily be able to tell the items are fake.Malden Mills said in a news release that the Chapter 11 process "will provide an efficient environment for completion of the sale.Park rangers have an orientation session with all climbers before they attempt McKinley. north face cyber monday A search of the mall was unsuccessful, but that the AT store did provide surveillance video of the theft.And Hilary Swank manages to get it right by offsetting the inflated proportions of her North Face padded skicoat with narrow, tailored black trousers and heels.On the inside you are going to locate the canada goose parka to have a Tech pocket that allows you to carry CD players, Pocket PCs, MP3 players and other such devices.