My first "real" deer season
 

Hey folks,

Been reading this wonderful forum for a while and just joined up. I've taken a couple of deer from the ground in my lifetime but due to a lack of decent hunting grounds, most of my hunting has been for upland birds and waterfowl. I'm 53 and it's high time I hang a rack on my wall!

A good friend just acquired a 100 acre parcel surrounded by big woods and we have been floored by all the deer sign. It was formerly a deer grounds as there's a small cabin and several rotting wooden tree stands here and there. In fact, we're just about finished scouting as we've captured five different bucks on my trail cam....along with several bears! It's fun to collect pics but at this point I'm thinking it will be best to stay out of there since nothing more from the cam will influence where we set up. We'll just have to see how things go down after we begin to sit on stand. We've caught two big eight pointers on cam but only at night still. Let's hope the ladies get them making a daytime mistake!

We've had several active scrapes being visited and have founds TONS of old rubbed trees. Just found the first active rub the other day but it was really small....perhaps made by the spike horn we photographed...expecting many more in the weeks leading up to our Dec 2nd opening day of gun season here in Massachusetts.

We put up my buddies' two man ladder stand and I bought a Summit Goliath climber so we can move around. We have a few different locations identified for that stand. He bought a scoped .50 CVA inline that we have shooting decent groups at 100+ yards so his ladder stand overlooks the more open area while poor 'ole me with my 1187 smoothbore will be in the thicker woods. I have a Bushnell red dot for it and am now seeking a cantilever barrel mount. Having a hard time finding just the right mount....e-mail sent to Gallard co. someone was kind enough to link here. Still waiting to hear back but since I'm a shop teacher with a machine shop, I may try to make my own. I understand that the receiver saddle type present problems with accuracy and interfering with the action.

So that's my introduction; very pleased to join the site and have enjoyed all the pics and excellent advice. I hope I'm able to post a pic of my first buck in about a month.

Does you smoothbore barrel have rifle sights or just a bead front? The red dot is probably better than just a bead sight, and you should be able to shoot deer out to about 75 yds with rifled slugs.

I'm not sure which mount you are looking for, some google images show different variations of cantilever style set ups on 1187s.


I would recommend that you find a fully rifled barrel with the cantilever mount permanently affixed for the future. That will get you the best accuracy. With sabot slugs you can double your range.

You may be able to find a used or even a new muzzleloader for the money you'd spend on a shotgun barrel, depending upon their availability.

I think in thick woods the bead on the barrel or open sights is far better than a red dot and out in the open a regular scope is better than a red dot.

I'd go shoot your gun the way it is. If you can hit with it all a red dot is going to do is make it harder to find the target.

welcome and good luck!

Thanks for the feedback folks.

uncle, I'm THIS close to dropping the cash on a rifled barrel. Thing is, we'll have this year with these prime acres left untouched but I don't know what the future will bring and how much logging, tilling, building the owner will be doing in the upcoming seasons. That's why I'm hesitant to drop coin on a whole new set-up.

Even at 50yds, the barrel and bead blot out the vitals so it's my thinking that the red dot will increase precision...esp in fading light. I have no expectation that I'll gain rifle accuracy, just a clearer view at 50 - 60 yds. It's not wing shooting so I'm not clear how target acquisition would be a problem.

Some of the advertised cantilever mounts require that they be soldered to a smooth rib and mine's not smooth. The one advertised by Gallard Industries seems to clamp nicely but I cannot get a response from them so they may not even be in business still. I have a few weeks to figure it all out still so by opening day I'll have some solid plan.

First things, First Welcome to the forum sir, I am in the same boat as You are. However i am not so lucky with my hunting grounds, I just got 5 acres now thank to my AWESOME BROTHER! Anyways I am very very new to hunting, I am in the middle of my first year to hunting.

So hopefully you will kill that Tirdy point BUCK, and good luck sir.

A red dot has a very small field of view is how target acquisition could be a problem. Finding a moving animal in the woods won't be easy. I have had the problem your talking about with the bead being to big. The big white bead on some rem barrels is to big. The small steel bead Ive had great luck with out to 70 yards or so.


If you buy good stuff though it will hold its value very well. You should be able to get on ebay and buy a used rifled barrel and then later if you don't need it you should be able to easily get your money back out of it.

If you take care of it a rifled 1187 barrel is as good or better than cash as long as you can swing the investment.

Ebay has a new in the box 12 Ga 1187 rifled barrel with rifle sights. Current bid is under $50. Might be worth your time to follow it and make a bid before it closes (6 days left I think).

I have an 11-87SP with a 21" smoothbore and rifled sights. It does have a rifled choke. Never really figured out what purpose this setup was originally manufactured for (Turkey?, Deer?, waterfowl?...). Anyways, when I was looking at a rifled barrel for the gun, I chose to go with the muzzleloader instead.

About the same cost depending on model, scope cost is a wash if you want one, accuracy is about the same with arguments for either side and in Michigan, having a muzzleloader drastically extended my season. Michigan also allows the use of muzzleloaders in the shotgun only zone and did I mention it extends the season until late December! It does take a bit of range time to find a load and get comfortable with the gun, loading, etc... However, you want to put something on the wall and an extended season would help.

I have an 1187 with smoothbore barrel and a rifled choke tube. I shoot a sabat just fine out of it. I've got rifle sights on it and would use that than a scope. My uncle shot my setup and set his 1187 up the same way. Everyone has their own preference and setup. As for me, I'll stay with the rifled choke tube.

Can't thank you all enough for the info.

Same sentiments back to you Green Horn...good luck out there this year. Have you ever field dressed a deer before? THAT'S gonna be a new experience for you!

rockport, i've got a feeling that you're right and I may end up ditching the red dot thing but I think I'm going to be able to machine a rail for it in my shop today. If it shows promise on my smoothbore to to 60yds, I can reassess things.

Uncle....thanks for the ebay nod. Been checking things out there and by the end of six days of bidding, I'm sure that price will climb. They've been going for just about $300.00 by bid's end. I may go that route yet.

Kathwacckkk, my buddy went the muzzleloader option but damn if he wasn't pushing $600.00 by the time he had all the accessories and such.

I still have a few weeks to sort this all out.

My last question for you experienced hunters....how do you sleep with the enormous level of excitement and anticipation?! Lol....I've had obsessions before but I can barely concentrate on all the crap I have to do.

Ive been doing it for 20 years and I don't sleep the night before the opener.

Your red dot will absolutely work at 60 yards. There are just better options.

The good thing about ebay is its an auction. You know your only paying a couple bucks more than other people bid so you pretty much know you could buy it,try it,decide if its worth it, and if its not put it right back on ebay at a very minimal loss.(I do this a lot)

I will warn you though the big expense would be ammo. That price increases dramatically when you go from rifled slugs to sabot slugs.

Yeah, I noticed they were about three times as much as rifled slugs.

Seems as though after sighting in, the expense shouldn't be too much of a factor. It would be different if we were talking waterfowl loads!

I just about can't sleep now...I'll probably just stay up all night before the opener. Then of course, I'll miss a nice buck and swear off the sport for good!

Thanks NEhomer, No I don't however my Mentor who is teaching me the basics of hunting does. He will be teaching me the field dressing techqnic as well

lol yeah the expense won't be bad after sighting in. It can get bad at first though as first you have to figure out which slugs your gun likes(maybe you get lucky maybe you don't)

Here is a little trick for ya. Take a buddy. Take one shot then aim at the hole you made and have your buddy move the sights to where you want to hit

do you mean gunbroker? I thought ebay couldn't/didn't sell guns..

...they can sell barrels but not fully functioning firearms.

The real expense of muzzleloading comes with the gun. Again, if you consider the sights (scope, red dot, rifle, etc...) a wash as you will buy them with a new gun or barrel or use the factory rifle sights...

You can pick up a bare bones rifle for ~ $175.00, Blackhorn 209 ~ $35.00, pack of 30 TC shockwave 250gr ~ $35.00, loading tubes ~$10.00 and a package of CCI 209M primers for ~$4.00. Assuming you have standard cleaning supplies you are in the sport with a new gun and all the supplies needed for ~ $260+tax.

Check out the Black Powder section of this forum to learn more as there is some great advice and options. It can really help keep the cost down and get you more accurate faster. They can be finicky with cleaning routine, but a lot of useful information.

I love my 11-87SP and still use this in thick brush or when we are doing drives, but a rifled barrel for the 11-87sp did not extend my season. Bottom line for me was that it extended my hunting season and allowed me to hunt more for the same cost as a rifled barrel.

Once again spot on advice and that's the very reason why my friend went with the muzzleloader.

I'm almost finished machining the scope mount for my 1187 so I'll try that before I decide further. If I happen to knock down a nice buck during shotgun season I may just sit out with my buddy in his two man ladder stand during primitive arms season. If not, I can buy a BP rig and keep at it. I'm also a pretty psycho waterfowl hunter and I may wish to find some time for that too.

After staying out of our woods for a week, me and my buddy went in yesterday. I had my trail cam looking over a convergence of trails downhill and South of the orchard where I've photographed several bucks and bears. I was getting the doubt from my friend but alas, the first pic is an eight point walking right past. Several other deer, does and horns, in multiple events confirmed the hot spot. Got a small spike during the daylight. I've caught him in night pics with one of the eight pointers so likely, the big guy was close by.

Southwest of this small orchard is what I'm certain is their bedding area. Southeast leads up a steep bank to the road so they ain't goin' that way. We made it down to the swampy area that borders this hardwood forest and the sign was literally everywhere. From that point due west about a hundred and fifty yards away, there's a steep drop off to the stream and beaver ponds. This makes a strong natural funnel that will force deer past our stands. My bud's now second guessing his two man tree stand northwest of this area where it's more open. He got the thing on sale cheap so he may just end up buyng a climber and pinching off that funnel near me. One stand on the corner of the swamp and one to the west short of the drop off and just about everything has to travel near one of us.

All that said, I think I'm gonna be ok with my smoothbore and red dot sight. The mount I made came out really nice and solid. I'm not going to get a shot longer than 50yds through the forest and I'm hitting some decent groups at that distance. The sight helps a lot. So for this year, I'm gonna see how it goes. I still have to practice from my stand.

I've hunted geese, ducks abd upland birds for many years and I'm a very good wingshooter. Shot several gobblers too but I'm learning that this aiming precisely and releasing the trigger without flinching or moving off target presents it's own challenge.

Slowly squeeze the trigger so it surprises you a little when it goes off.

If you are really having trouble take a buddy with you to shoot targets, have him load your gun before every shot and tell him to leave it empty sometimes. Do that until you don't jump on the empties.

Two schools of thought on accuracy with a single bullet:

#1) take a deep breath, let it halfway out and slowly squeeze the trigger until it surprises you.

#2) Plan on a lot of range time where you can shoot the gun effectively enough that your eyes do not even close when the gun goes off. You are comfortable with the guns recoil and know the trigger pressure / creep exactly. Then you can depress the trigger to the point that you know any additional pressure will cause the gun to fire. At this point, you can put the sight exactly where you want the bullet to hit and "slap" / touch the trigger. This method is a favorite of snipers as they have to send the bullt accurately, at a specific time and point of impact.

If you choose #2, I would recommend getting a snap cap for your gun. This way you can become familiar with the trigger pressure / creep by dryfiring the gun into the cap. This will save you wear and tear on your firing pin. In either method...practice, practice, practice.

When you aim at a deer, aim where you want the bullet to exit on the opposite side. Example, on a quartering away shot from a treestand, go through the vitals and exit low through the opposite side frint shoulder. I have made poor hits on deer even though my impact looked good, but I did not take into account the animals orientation. Aiming for a spot you want the bullet or arrow to exit helped me.

You could also use it for an excuse to buy a savage 220f slug gun with an accutrigger.

People dogging red dot sights have no idea what they are talking about. The entire REASON red dot sights exist is to acquire your target in the shortest amount of time possible. You shoot with both eyes open (as you should anyway). If you have a proper cheek weld then the red dot will be perfectly within your field of view. It's almost like the red dot is part of your vision.

So am I concerned for no reason that I have yet to find an active rub? This property has dozens and dozens of previously rubbed up saplings...they're literally everywhere. I was in yesterday, 11/14, and cannot yet locate any fresh rubs. I've found scrapes and a few of them have been actively scratched up each time I go but I was expecting to see some bark ripped up by now. I've trail cammed 5 different bucks so I know the area's still holding bucks.

Someone tell me to chillax homer, the rubbing will start any day now!

Do you know if theres EHD kills around? do you have game cameras up to see whats around?

Yeah wildcam. I have photographed a number of deer. Just kind of wondering if it's normal to be this late without active rubs. Again, the woods are littered with damaged saplings from years past.

So my anxiety continues to rise. It seems as though deer sign on our property has been diminishing instead of ramping up and I'm not sure what to make of it. Historically, this place has been a deer hunting bonanza with several old stands rotting out of the trees and dozens of old damaged saplings but there continues to be a lack of active rubs.

Then we had snow overnight yesterday. It snowed about three inches and then it stopped at exactly daybreak. I figured this was an excellent opportunity to go out in the afternoon to look for tracks. Well I covered almost the entire 100 acres and did not see a single track!

That means that not one deer moved through the property all day long. This has me rather concerned. Where did they go? Will opening day on Monday see them pushed around?

The good news is that my friend has purchased this property so it will be ours to manage for years to come. We'll plant an orchard and various other plots...perhaps some pumpkins and of course, deer feed plots. So even if this year fails to pan out, we haven't wasted our money on stands and such and we'll just look to the future.

I'll have more info for this thread after Monday. Guess we'll have to just get out there and hope for the best.

There is just so many things it could be its hard to pinpoint without being there.

You got an Arial photo?

I'd take it easy on covering the entire 100 acres this time of year.

I only have what google earth shows which is a summertime picture so it's hard to see much. The area is nice mix of small fields, flats, slopes and marsh. A number of oak trees as well.

I'd take it easy on covering the entire 100 acres this time of year.

Yeah, that's a concern and we've been careful about not making too much of a presence but yesterday, I figured if there's literally not a single track, what could I possibly spook?

The West border is a large swamp and beaver pond. To the East is a high ridge. It seems like a natural funnel from North to South so we plan on pinching that area between the two stands and see what gets pushed through. Seems like that's about all we've got to work with. We did photograph a number of bucks and a couple of doe groups back in October and early November so there has to be something around.

Could that first snowstorm of the year cause them to lock up and bed down all day?

A change in a deer's environment will make them more alert. Everyone thinks "the snow stopped, deer have to be moving". I have found the opposite to be true. They will get used to the snow covering quickly and then realize it is cold and they have to find food. They will be moving within two days, so stay after it.

Also, the moon moving to a "new moon phase" will help get them on their feet a little earlier. They will be alert though, so when you have a chance to kill something do it expeditiously.

Yeah it certainly could. I like to pay attention to deer in general. Take a ride and see if you see deer out and about. If I go hunting and see nothing then see 50 deer on the way home I start to worry about my spot.

Did you see deer moving anywhere else? Any buddies having any luck elsewhere?

Hard freeze could change feeding patterns, full moon they run all night and bed all day, nasty weather, just all kinds of things to figure. Is the rut over? just starting? in full swing? anything near by they could eat without digging in the snow?

What is the hunting pressure situation? Bow season? Gun season? etc.

Well thanks for the input you guys...again, we're gonna get out there and see what we see and make a game plan from there.

I'll keep y'all posted.

Absolutely... It's a phenomena I witness every year here in MN. After the first major snowfall every year the deer shut down the next day, we see very little signs of movement that first day... It's as if they realize that they've suddenly become more vulnerable... That's about the only thing that I can figure, because after each subsequent snow storm the deer are up and moving pretty much immediately afterwards as long as the winds have settled down.

I'm pretty sure that if there isn't another reason that the deer aren't moving, such as hunter pressure, your going to be surprised at how much sign you see tomorrow in the new snow.

Thanks Lunkerdog, I do think we're gonna see something this next week but more daily activity would be nice. We got that huge storm here in the east and it's all rain so that snow's long gone. I knew that I only had yesterday day to look. There are plenty of Christmases where we still don't have snow. It ain't like the old days.

I am getting psyched to just be in the woods. Got away from it when my turkey woods got sold in about '06 and I ended up not seeking out new territory. I'm hoping that this new property holds birds this spring as well.

Well me and Phil spent the entire day on the property yesterday. Unfortunately but not unpredictably, we didn't see anything. Nothing all day while several shots were heard in the area.

I think what we have is a once plentiful deer grounds but things have changed, Again, the historical rub evidence is everywhere but we've seen only a few fresh ones. As I said earlier, we'll be plotting out a plan to attract them once again.

That said, quitters never win, winners never quit and we'll be on stand as much as work will allow. Hopefully, something will drift by~

There's a swamp area that sits well below a high ridge to the east. We found a number of fresh and large rubs at the top of the ridge. I'm suspecting that the fellow responsible may be currently residing in that thick stuff since the start of the guns booming. It's at the Northwest area of the property and darned if we haven't had a Southeast wind the past two days so I've stayed out of there.

Looks like we have an ice/snow storm overnight Friday and finally a Northwest wind on Saturday. Guess I know where I'll be setting up Sat a.m.

...and sure, I know I'm just talking to myself in here ;)

this helped me out.

one other thing that helped me was resting it between my thumb and forefinger, instead of grabbing it. once I learned that I would go out holding it. but that helped me a lot as well.