God is Amazing
#81
Shinto is a religion. Some write it off as pantheism or ancestor worship, but that's not accurate. We do believe that there is an element of the creator in everything including rocks and trees. But that really isn't any different than the Christian belief that God is omnipresent is it?
I know that my the spirits of our ancestors are there to guide us if we listen. Is this so different than the Catholic prayer for intercession to the saints? I know that my husband's spirit will still be there to guide me and our daughters even after he leaves this life.
I do accept the Catholic faith. I just believe that doctrines and dogmas can be imperfect and I accept, as does my husband, what is true for us. The fact that religious beliefs are frequently revised makes this attitude seem reasonable.
And I understand that one of the popes has said there is no conflict between the Bible and evolution. And they teach evolution in the science classes in our local Catholic schools.
Shinto does not have a holy book which incorporates a set of dogmas and rules to which one has to swear allegiance which makes it different from Western religions. In the Eastern tradition, one accepts what one has come to know. My husband spent much time in Korea. He tells me that it is not unusual there to see people who respect and follow both Buddha and Jesus.
As far as life after death, Christianity holds to a belief in a heaven, a specific place. I was not raised that way. The life of the soul after death is a different state but not a different place.
I am always willing to explain what I believe. And my husband shares my beliefs. But I don't feel as though I have to convince anyone in order that they might be "saved." My faith is strong enough to deal with the fact that others may disagree with me.
Although I have made mistakes in my life, I don't believe that I am a vile sinner in need of salvation.
As far as the hereafter is concerned, I don't believe we'll be bored. I think the wisdom we will acquire will be sufficient for our needs. Haven't you ever wondered what it would be like to be free of the restrictions of your earthly body and mind?
May The Sheep Be With You
I know that my the spirits of our ancestors are there to guide us if we listen. Is this so different than the Catholic prayer for intercession to the saints? I know that my husband's spirit will still be there to guide me and our daughters even after he leaves this life.
I do accept the Catholic faith. I just believe that doctrines and dogmas can be imperfect and I accept, as does my husband, what is true for us. The fact that religious beliefs are frequently revised makes this attitude seem reasonable.
And I understand that one of the popes has said there is no conflict between the Bible and evolution. And they teach evolution in the science classes in our local Catholic schools.
Shinto does not have a holy book which incorporates a set of dogmas and rules to which one has to swear allegiance which makes it different from Western religions. In the Eastern tradition, one accepts what one has come to know. My husband spent much time in Korea. He tells me that it is not unusual there to see people who respect and follow both Buddha and Jesus.
As far as life after death, Christianity holds to a belief in a heaven, a specific place. I was not raised that way. The life of the soul after death is a different state but not a different place.
I am always willing to explain what I believe. And my husband shares my beliefs. But I don't feel as though I have to convince anyone in order that they might be "saved." My faith is strong enough to deal with the fact that others may disagree with me.
Although I have made mistakes in my life, I don't believe that I am a vile sinner in need of salvation.
As far as the hereafter is concerned, I don't believe we'll be bored. I think the wisdom we will acquire will be sufficient for our needs. Haven't you ever wondered what it would be like to be free of the restrictions of your earthly body and mind?
May The Sheep Be With You
#82
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 269
1) Is there a Shinto church where people gather for the purpose of worship? (memorials and festivals are exempt)
2) Is there a Shinto preist or master who dictates what you can and can't do and what to think and say to others?
3) Does the Shinto practice solicit financial support where such support is funneled to the top like a pyramid?
4) Does Shinto imply threats and penalties for non-conformance?
5) Does Shinto explicitly and strategically act to perpetuate its own proliferation?
We do believe that there is an element of the creator in everything including rocks and trees. But that really isn't any different than the Christian belief that God is omnipresent is it?
Sure, there might be a higher power involved in there, but that's not the main focus.
At least, that's the impression I am getting.. I'm obviously not Japanese and am not going to have a good understanding of your ways via a few google searches.
I know that my the spirits of our ancestors are there to guide us if we listen. Is this so different than the Catholic prayer for intercession to the saints? I know that my husband's spirit will still be there to guide me and our daughters even after he leaves this life.
Shinto does not have a holy book which incorporates a set of dogmas and rules to which one has to swear allegiance which makes it different from Western religions.
I think that the absence of a book is probably a key factor.
I am always willing to explain what I believe. And my husband shares my beliefs. But I don't feel as though I have to convince anyone in order that they might be "saved." My faith is strong enough to deal with the fact that others may disagree with me.
If everyone was Shinto, religion in this world wouldn't exist as it does today. I'm not saying Shinto is good or bad, I'm just saying that its not really what we westerners consider a religion in the common way that causes all the problems in society.
Haven't you ever wondered what it would be like to be free of the restrictions of your earthly body and mind?
Thank you again for contributing. I don't think that anyone, even the anti-religious like me, would have anything against your way of thinking.
#83
Spike
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1
Murby
After reading all 9 pages of this thread, and not seeing it mentioned, I felt compelled to say what everyone is thinking, and what you clearly want to hear.
Dude, you're smart, we get it. You argue content or positions that people are making to be alternative to their words. That certain phrasing, words, or points are clearly a sign of this or that, and cannot challenge your position and higher intellect.
I have no doubt you are smarter than me, I am smart enough to know that. I knowingly type this with the full expectation of you picking my words and motives apart like Freud, but I'm ok with that, because God is amazing.
It's that same amount of education that contributes to you agreeing with only what you can see, and the "science" you chose to believe. Evolution must be true, because an educated human says so. Who determines who is correct? Who determined the carbon dating method is correct? You're still choosing to believe in someone or something, it's just something other than God.
How do you know your great, great, great, great, great, great, great-grandfather existed? Where is your physical proof? You're here, so you take it for granted that he existed, that's faith.
Maybe, most believers appear "uneducated", as you put it, because they haven't been educated to the point of feeling smarter, better than, and more superior to everyone around them. God can't possibly exist to anyone who believes himself to be so of his own world.
And whether you like it or not, I'm praying for you.
Happy hunting my friend.
After reading all 9 pages of this thread, and not seeing it mentioned, I felt compelled to say what everyone is thinking, and what you clearly want to hear.
Dude, you're smart, we get it. You argue content or positions that people are making to be alternative to their words. That certain phrasing, words, or points are clearly a sign of this or that, and cannot challenge your position and higher intellect.
I have no doubt you are smarter than me, I am smart enough to know that. I knowingly type this with the full expectation of you picking my words and motives apart like Freud, but I'm ok with that, because God is amazing.
It's that same amount of education that contributes to you agreeing with only what you can see, and the "science" you chose to believe. Evolution must be true, because an educated human says so. Who determines who is correct? Who determined the carbon dating method is correct? You're still choosing to believe in someone or something, it's just something other than God.
How do you know your great, great, great, great, great, great, great-grandfather existed? Where is your physical proof? You're here, so you take it for granted that he existed, that's faith.
Maybe, most believers appear "uneducated", as you put it, because they haven't been educated to the point of feeling smarter, better than, and more superior to everyone around them. God can't possibly exist to anyone who believes himself to be so of his own world.
And whether you like it or not, I'm praying for you.
Happy hunting my friend.
#84
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 141
Murby
After reading all 9 pages of this thread, and not seeing it mentioned, I felt compelled to say what everyone is thinking, and what you clearly want to hear.
Dude, you're smart, we get it. You argue content or positions that people are making to be alternative to their words. That certain phrasing, words, or points are clearly a sign of this or that, and cannot challenge your position and higher intellect.
I have no doubt you are smarter than me, I am smart enough to know that. I knowingly type this with the full expectation of you picking my words and motives apart like Freud, but I'm ok with that, because God is amazing.
It's that same amount of education that contributes to you agreeing with only what you can see, and the "science" you chose to believe. Evolution must be true, because an educated human says so. Who determines who is correct? Who determined the carbon dating method is correct? You're still choosing to believe in someone or something, it's just something other than God.
How do you know your great, great, great, great, great, great, great-grandfather existed? Where is your physical proof? You're here, so you take it for granted that he existed, that's faith.
Maybe, most believers appear "uneducated", as you put it, because they haven't been educated to the point of feeling smarter, better than, and more superior to everyone around them. God can't possibly exist to anyone who believes himself to be so of his own world.
And whether you like it or not, I'm praying for you.
Happy hunting my friend.
After reading all 9 pages of this thread, and not seeing it mentioned, I felt compelled to say what everyone is thinking, and what you clearly want to hear.
Dude, you're smart, we get it. You argue content or positions that people are making to be alternative to their words. That certain phrasing, words, or points are clearly a sign of this or that, and cannot challenge your position and higher intellect.
I have no doubt you are smarter than me, I am smart enough to know that. I knowingly type this with the full expectation of you picking my words and motives apart like Freud, but I'm ok with that, because God is amazing.
It's that same amount of education that contributes to you agreeing with only what you can see, and the "science" you chose to believe. Evolution must be true, because an educated human says so. Who determines who is correct? Who determined the carbon dating method is correct? You're still choosing to believe in someone or something, it's just something other than God.
How do you know your great, great, great, great, great, great, great-grandfather existed? Where is your physical proof? You're here, so you take it for granted that he existed, that's faith.
Maybe, most believers appear "uneducated", as you put it, because they haven't been educated to the point of feeling smarter, better than, and more superior to everyone around them. God can't possibly exist to anyone who believes himself to be so of his own world.
And whether you like it or not, I'm praying for you.
Happy hunting my friend.
#85
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 269
Murby
After reading all 9 pages of this thread, and not seeing it mentioned, I felt compelled to say what everyone is thinking, and what you clearly want to hear.
Dude, you're smart, we get it. You argue content or positions that people are making to be alternative to their words. That certain phrasing, words, or points are clearly a sign of this or that, and cannot challenge your position and higher intellect.
I have no doubt you are smarter than me, I am smart enough to know that. I knowingly type this with the full expectation of you picking my words and motives apart like Freud, but I'm ok with that, because God is amazing.
After reading all 9 pages of this thread, and not seeing it mentioned, I felt compelled to say what everyone is thinking, and what you clearly want to hear.
Dude, you're smart, we get it. You argue content or positions that people are making to be alternative to their words. That certain phrasing, words, or points are clearly a sign of this or that, and cannot challenge your position and higher intellect.
I have no doubt you are smarter than me, I am smart enough to know that. I knowingly type this with the full expectation of you picking my words and motives apart like Freud, but I'm ok with that, because God is amazing.
I think I'm average..Maybe above, maybe below, who knows. PhD's are smart... That I do know.
It's that same amount of education that contributes to you agreeing with only what you can see, and the "science" you chose to believe. Evolution must be true, because an educated human says so. Who determines who is correct? Who determined the carbon dating method is correct? You're still choosing to believe in someone or something, it's just something other than God.
How do you know your great, great, great, great, great, great, great-grandfather existed? Where is your physical proof? You're here, so you take it for granted that he existed, that's faith.
I know the sun is going to be there tomorrow. Its not faith, its logic.
Maybe, most believers appear "uneducated", as you put it, because they haven't been educated to the point of feeling smarter, better than, and more superior to everyone around them.
One of my friends is a jet engine mechanic. We grew up together and I've known him for 35+ years. He moved away and we just reconnected a while back after not seeing each other for almost 15 of those years. He was one of the most trusted friends I have ever had the privilege of being associated with and I am a bit ashamed I let ourselves drift apart the way we did.
He works on all types of jet engines and he is a specialist. When there's a problem that the normal trouble shooting procedures can't resolve, they send him in. To say he's spent a bit of time in the classroom learning all this stuff is an understatement. I'm an engineer and while I understand the basics of a jet engine, they're way out of my ballpark.
My friend believes in God.. Born, raised, catechism, church every sunday, etc.. hardcore christian.
He also didn't believe in evolution.. Until we reconnected and I set him straight. He still believes in God, but he admits he wasn't aware of the science that has developed. He is/was uneducated in that respect.
You think that I used the word uneducated as a synonym for stupid or idiot. Well, sometimes that might be true.. But its not a rule.
I find that the majority of people who believe in a god are:
1. Uneducated.. Sometimes they just haven't kept up with the science that could have changed their minds, other times they are just idiots who have fried their brains on drugs or never bothered to read anything.
2. Indoctrinated.. They might be very educated folks but they were heavily exposed to religion at a very early age when their brains were developing. Their neurons are PHYSICALLY wired to incorporate religion into every aspect of their lives. No amount of education or proof will change the hard-wiring of their brain. You can write all the software you want, but you can't change the way a processor works.
3. Agenda.. Those who don't believe but know that pretending will bring in followers and give them money and power or something else they want.
Hope that clears it up.
Except for my ruggedly handsome good looks, I do not feel superior to anyone as I have my own list of shortcomings and faults.
That said, if you still think I am somehow superior and smarter than you, than I'm good with that! LOL
#86
Spike
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 41
Also, science is ultimately a matter of leaving yourself open to better evidence and better ideas. It holds no theory so sacred that it can't be supplanted by a new one.
Evolution must be true, because an educated human says so. Who determines who is correct? Who determined the carbon dating method is correct? You're still choosing to believe in someone or something, it's just something other than God.
How do you know your great, great, great, great, great, great, great-grandfather existed? Where is your physical proof? You're here, so you take it for granted that he existed, that's faith.
#87
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 269
I had to have a grandfather. How else would I be here? Maybe a wizard did it?
#88
Typical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern WI
Posts: 853
Not all that believe in a world created by God, as opposed to evolving, are uneducated.
Read In Six Days: Why Fifty Scientists Choose to Believe in Creation - 50 scientists with advanced degrees from secular universities, all believing in Creation, six day creation no less.
Or read some of Stephen C Meyer's very recent books, like Signature in the Cell: DNA and the Evidence for Intelligent Design or Darwin's Doubt: The Explosive Origin of Animal Life and the Case for Intelligent Design.
Read In Six Days: Why Fifty Scientists Choose to Believe in Creation - 50 scientists with advanced degrees from secular universities, all believing in Creation, six day creation no less.
Or read some of Stephen C Meyer's very recent books, like Signature in the Cell: DNA and the Evidence for Intelligent Design or Darwin's Doubt: The Explosive Origin of Animal Life and the Case for Intelligent Design.
#90
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 269
Read In Six Days: Why Fifty Scientists Choose to Believe in Creation - 50 scientists with advanced degrees from secular universities, all believing in Creation, six day creation no less.
That said, if I ever find the time, I will read the book.. (but don't hold your breath)..
Or read some of Stephen C Meyer's very recent books, like Signature in the Cell: DNA and the Evidence for Intelligent Design or Darwin's Doubt: The Explosive Origin of Animal Life and the Case for Intelligent Design.
Indoctrination is very tough to crack.. almost impossible if done right. I would bet that even if God did show up one day, they wouldn't accept it no matter how much proof God showed.
Something to ponder, if God wanted us to worship him, why didn't he give us indisputable evidence of his existence and presence? Why not drop in every few hundred years and part an ocean or something?
Doesn't make sense...