What would you do?
 

This situation happened to someone I know a few years ago. He had drawn a doe permit, and being primarily a meat hunter he had decided to take a doe if given the opportunity. While he was still-hunting along a thick cedar swamp, movement caught his eye and he turned to see a nice doe standing broadside to him. He quickly raised his rifle and fired, and the deer dissapeared into the thicket. He walked over to where the deer had been, and there it was lying dead on the ground. He then saw another doe leaning up against a tree, obviously wounded. He was a bit confused until he realized that his bullet must have gone through the first doe and struck the other one which he never saw. Not wanting to see the animal suffer, he finished it with a shot to the head. He was only allowed one deer, so what he did was technically illegal. He was very shook up - being a law-abiding hunter he was extremely guilt stricken, but at the same time thought what he had done was best. I honestly think I would have done the same.......what would you have done?

RE: What would you do?
 

1st law of pulling the trigger, Identify your Target....

Now, unfortunately, a second doe was wounded. Yes, he did the right thing by dispatching the second doe and not letting her go off wounded....but wouldn' t the right thing then be to turn it in....

Owning an outfitting business, I have to keep my nose very clean which I' ve been raised in the hunting industry to do anyway...yes, finishing the second illegally shot doe was the right answer, turning it in would have been the next step.

RE: What would you do?
 

Shouldn' t that read; Identify your target and beyond? It could just as easy of been a hunter beyond, watching the doe he just passed on, walk by.

RE: What would you do?
 

It should be made clear that he did indeed identify the target, and it was not possible for him to see the deer standing directly behind the other. This was in the thick Maine woods, in a cedar/spruce thicket to be exact. It is often not possible to see more than 20-30 yards in this kind of hunting situation.

As far as turning the deer over to wildlife officials afterwards, yes that would maybe be the " right" thing to do, but it would be a gamble as to whether the warden(s) would be understanding or not. He may have been lucky and had a down-to-earth warden just take the illegal deer and give it to a needy family or homeless shelter and tell him to be on his way. On the other hand, he may have had one who goes strictly by the book take both deer and his hunting license and his gun. They could even take his vehicle by state law if they wanted to. These are the things he had to consider when deciding his course of action. Of course, if he had gotten caught trying to hide the illegal animal it would have made the consequences that much worse.

Would any of you have done what the law says you should do and leave the animal there to suffer while you left and tried to find a game warden? I think it' s really tough to say if anything would have been the " right" thing to do in this situation, but I' d love to hear some more opinions.

RE: What would you do?
 

You might have been further ahead to not post this question on here. you are going to get all kinds of answers on what you should have done, but in reality, most of us would have done what your buddie did. taking a chance with a game warden these days leaves a lot to be desired. i have shot two deer with one shot at least five times, one time the buck was running and i got it and one behind it, another time there were 12 deer standing together, i shot the buck and got a doe also. i knew what i was shooting at, but could not see the one behind when i shot. that is the price you pay for ammo that passes through an animal. the only difference between your friends story and mine, is i was hunting with four other guys at the time, we were not restricted on bucks or does, and someone else tagged the animal.

RE: What would you do?
 

Well I realized it was a touchy subject when I posted, so I kind of expected some people to say he never should have shot and so on and so on. I also notice a lot of people tend to think in terms of their own hunting situations, which can be drastically different from others. That is understandable, and I think we are all guilty of this at one time or another.

I' d still love to hear some more replies - try to put yourself in that situation and think " What would I do?" Be honest now;)

RE: What would you do?
 

Lee,


I don' t want to start a fight with you, one time I can see, 2 maybe, but 5 times! If you' re hunting with a firearm it is your responsibility to be sure there is a clear area behind your target.



You are coming onto a public site and admitting to violating a cardinal rule of hunting safety not once but 5 times. You couldn' t see what was within several yards of these deer, do you have any idea what was in the distance behind them?

Split-Hoof, Your friend did the right thing by finishing the job. Everyone makes mistakes and sometimes things happen but the ethical thing to do is inform the game warden. Hopefully he learns from this.


Travis

RE: What would you do?
 

FFTJ, not only did he learn from it, but it completely changed his whole perspective on hunting. He was and is a very ethical and responsible hunter, and having to kill two deer made him very emotional. He still does hunt, but only to get out in the woods and enjoy nature. He has not killed a deer since then, and this was over 10 years ago. Killing a deer was never his main reason for hunting, but now it almost seems he tries to avoid shooting one at all. He loves to watch the wildlife and just enjoy his time in the woods. I actually learned a lot from his experiences, and have a great amount of respect for him. If only more hunters shared his views, the woods wood be much safer and enjoyable for all I believe.

RE: What would you do?
 

Split Hoof Is this the reply you wanted to hear? Tag the first Doe, on your way to the check station drop it off home unless stopped , then take the tag for the doe and go back and use it on the second doe only this one you take to the check station. One thing for sure the meat should never be wasted. Glad he learned his lesson as Some people evidently don' t.

RE: What would you do?
 

jersey - I wasn' t looking for any certain reply, just honest answers, but yes that maybe would have been a good way to go about it. Of course the most honest thing to do would have been taking the deer to the wildlife officials, but as I said before that would have also involved much risk.

I' m starting to think I really shouldn' t have posted this......it seems many of you are looking at it like he did something wrong, when in fact it was an honest mistake that could have happened to anyone.

RE: What would you do?
 

If you can' t be sure if there is another deer behind the first don' t shoot. It' s that simple.

I can see this happening maybe ONCE in a lifetime but like they said, it could have been a person that was shot beyond the doe or a cow or horse or someone' s truck. If you can' t be 100% sure of where your bullet will land after going through (or missing) the animal don' t pull the trigger.

He cleaned up after himself by finishing the 2nd doe. Let this be a lesson to us all to keep the woods as safe as possible.

RE: What would you do?
 

1st law of pulling the trigger, Identify your Target,Shouldn' t that read; Identify your target and beyond?Lee,


I don' t want to start a fight with you, one time I can see, 2 maybe, but 5 times! If you' re hunting with a firearm it is your responsibility to be sure there is a clear area behind your target. You are coming onto a public site and admitting to violating a cardinal rule of hunting safety not once but 5 times. You couldn' t see what was within several yards of these deer, do you have any idea what was in the distance behind them?
Glad he learned his lesson as Some people evidently don' t.
I' m starting to think I really shouldn' t have posted this......it seems many of you are looking at it like he did something wrong, when in fact it was an honest mistake that could have happened to anyone.

posting your question was not a bad idea, thought i would get the monkey off your back by posting my reply. as far as knowing what was beyond the deer when i shot, yet, i knew exactly what was there, a side hill or a draw. as far as learning a lesson, there was no lesson to be learned, it happened and it was taken care of. now i bet you are going to really get upset when i tell you i have shot up to 12 deer in one season legally. not going to waste my time trying to explain that one to you. oh, by the way, one of the times i shot two deer with one shot, i was hunting with a game warden and that ended up being legal also, you figure that one out. have a great day:D split-hook, i hope this takes a little pressure off you, if they have never been in that situation, then they can stand up and preach all they want, but i bet if they ever do, they will NOT go to any game warden and they will probably just leave the animal in the woods.

RE: What would you do?
 

" If they ever do, they will NOT go to any game warden and they will probably just leave the animal in the woods"

Lee, that sort of thing happens every year around here and it makes me mad. Some people do in fact shoot before identifying it as a buck or a doe. They walk up to it and if it' s a doe, they just leave it for the coyotes. Does are illegal to shoot in my part of Maine.

Power, you still seem to misinterpret the situation. If it were you, would you have walked in a circle around the deer to check if something was behind it? My friend does not have X-ray vision, and it was impossible for him to tell there was a smaller deer standing directly behind the first.

If you are hunting from a treestand overlooking a field with wide-open timber behind you then yes, it would probably be easy to see whether or not there was a deer right behind another, because you have a good vantage point and easy viewing in all directions for many yards.

Have any of you critics still-hunted or tracked through a thick northern Maine cedar swamp before? If you have I would dare guess you never shot anything while doing it.

RE: What would you do?
 

In Pa if you make a mistaken kill and report it,usually they dont throw the book at you. Yes making sure of the target and beyond is a very important factor in safety. But everyone alive can make a honest mistake.The important part is it wasnt a person and that he learned from it

RE: What would you do?
 

Part of being honest is admitting mistakes.
Turn it in.
It is not preaching if it is right.

If what you say about Maine is true then maybe some weapon restrictions should be put into affect,slug guns only maybe,treestand hunting only
Safety first.

If it wasn' t wrong what the man did,would it bother him so much?period

RE: What would you do?
 

cardeer, good to hear the GW' s in Pa are usually understanding. Up here it is a sad fact that the state is more concerned with $$ than good sportsmanship. It is getting worse every year too, as more and more young wardens who want to make a name for themselves do everything in their power to slap someone with a fine. There are some good ones too, but they are getting to be fewer and fewer.

Mailman, I don' t think weapon restrictions would go over well with the residents, and I know I would be against it if it were ever proposed. A treestand hunting only proposal would be a joke as far as most are concerned, since it' s not the traditional way of hunting. Tracking is the traditional way to hunt these woods and with good reason - it is the most effective way to consistently kill mature trophy bucks. Making it illegal to hunt this way would likely cause a civil war. Safety is and should be the responsibility of the hunter, not the state.

It bothered him because he was faced with a situation where he had to kill two deer. He realized he made a mistake, but it was not due to bad judgement, which is why I can' t see how it can be considered " wrong" . Unfortunate yes, but it was not because of lack of ethics or understanding of hunting safety. An honest mistake is an honest mistake.

RE: What would you do?
 

Believe it or not, almost this same thing happend to a friend hunting in northern NH many years back. The second deer was killed instantly. My buddy shot a buck and there was a doe standing behind him. Both deer dopped quickly. Since he only had one tag, he had to make a decision. He was with a few other friends. Here' s what he did.....He tagged the buck that he initially shot and let both deer lay without moving them One buddy then went to the tagging station and explained the situation. Within a short time (a lot quicker than they thought) a game warden showed up at the tagging station. He was then told what had happened and left to go to the kill site. When he saw the situation, he let the hunter take the second deer as well. He put a temp tag on it and ******ed him and both deer to the tagging station...I guess the warden appreciated what the hunters did. Of course this happened in NH and things may have changed over the years. Non the less, I would have done the exact same thing. I would have summoned a warden or fish and game official or local police dept. if needed and leave the deer as is, so they could witness as I explained. If I did not think the outcome was handeled correctly, I would plead my case in front of a judge......

RE: What would you do?
 

Split Hoof,
I hunt the Maine woods too, very dark, and VERY thick. I have been doing it for 15 years. I have never been in this situation before. If it hapened to me I know the guys I hunt with would tag the second deer. It may not be the " right" thing to do, but with the Maine DEM the way the are, it would be the best thing for our group to do. It would definately be something I would learn from and I hope would never happen again.

RE: What would you do?
 

Split-hoof first things first, what he did in finishing the deer off was the right thing to do, unlike others I will not judge him on anything else, that is not my right, not my job.

Second a lot of folks here saying to ALWAYS identify what is beyong your target, well I agree you should, but I have a feeling they have never hunted thickets, swamps or even a corn field from ground level. If they had and were really honest about knowing exactly what is on the other side of their target than they would never take a shot!

RE: What would you do?
 

Jimmy - It' s good to hear your buddy' s situation had a good outcome. I wish more wardens around here were that understanding. He did the most honest thing possible, and it is good that he was rewarded instead of punished!

Smokem - Good to see another Maine hunter on the boards! I hope you never do find yourself in that situation. It is something that no ethical hunter wants to happen! What part of the state do you hunt?

Taz - Well said! That is exactly my point, a hunter who does most of their hunting on ground level in thick cover can understand the situation far better than one who hunts only from a treestand. Each hunting situation is unique, and some seem to forget that.

RE: What would you do?
 

We all choose our weapon and the projectile that leaves it.
Slug guns are mandated in some areas due to things such as this.
Homes and other hunters may be in danger.

If you do hunt the ground,you owe it to every other hunter out there to stop that projectile in the first thing it hits.

Accidents happen,always have,always will.

The actions after an accident is all we really can do anything about.

RE: What would you do?
 

He did the right thing. Where I hunt killing two does with one shot would be called good shooting.:D

RE: What would you do?
 

Check your messages.

RE: What would you do?
 

i agree with Rob/PA Bowyer 100%

but if i had a buddy with me and he a a doe perment would of asked him if he wanted it any buddy of mine would of said yes because he or she new it was wrong not to

RE: What would you do?
 

I would have done exactly what he did. I would have then tried to find someone else to tag the deer so it would not go to waste. As far as going to the game warden, here that would be too risky because the laws are so strict and a honest mistake is alot different from poaching. I am surprised at the number of people who are able to always know exactly where thier bullet is going after they shot. Who can anticipate it glancing off a bone or rock and know exactly where it will land. I don' t think this was a situation where someone failed to identify his target or was shooting to just be shooting. Sounds to me like he put the bullet right where he wanted to. I have been on my hands and knees in cedar trees before so maybe I can relate better than the others. Tell your friend to get over it and get back out there and help control that deer herd.

RE: What would you do?
 

I would have finished off the second deer and attempted to harvest both. However, I would not have reported the second kill to a game warden. Technically I' m violating the law, yes. Just as I am when I go through a stop sign that I didn' t see (unintentionally).

The instructor in my hunter safety course told the story of deer hunting, opening day, with a friend. Walking down a foggy path in the near dawn hour a deer rose up from its bedding in front of them. His friend was fortunate enough to have his rifle at the ready and shot it. Down it went. Up it came again, to their utter disbelief. He shot it again. Down it went, and stayed down. When they walked the short distance to the deer they found two deer laying on the ground. They dressed both and went home early. Technically his friend was poaching the second deer. He didn' t intend to poach, but technically he did.

Most of our law arises from English common law. A very very rough interpretation of common law is that this is what everyone could pretty much agree on without arguement. We' re not talking contract law, or litigation here, we' re talking about a near universal understanding of what stealing is, what trespass is, etc.

Now I would say that there is a near universal understanding here that your friend didn' t intend to harvest two deer, only one. From your description he wasn' t spraying the woods with gunfire, or in some other way acting irresponsibly. I' ll bet he was looking around the woods, perhaps subconsiously, for other hunters. We wear hunter orange so that we stand out, so that other hunters can see us. Not because it makes good fashion sense. So unless another hunter was in camo about to take that other doe in hand-to-hoof combat, its rather unlikely that anyone should be troubled by the " it could have been another hunter" notion. By that logic I guess no-one in the north woods should ever harvest a deer since there' s no way you could possibly see as far as your bullet could potentially travel under the wildest of situations.

All that being said, why would I put myself at risk and try to convince a game warden of my good intentions? I don' t stop by the police station and fess up accidently running a stop sign. I know that taking a hidden deer with one shot is not a reasonable expectation of taking a shot on game. My conscience would be clear. If a jury in Wisconsin feels that shooting at sound and movement through brush does not rise to the level of involuntary manslaughter, then accidently hitting a second deer is not to be worried about. If we all took an extra deer things would be a big mess, but if through an honest turn of events an extra deer is harvested, well, the world will still keep spinning. The woods, and the species will, just maybe, recover.

Its too bad that this put your friend off of hunting though.

RE: What would you do?
 

VERY well said CalN! You explained perfectly what I have been trying to all along. My friend wasn' t " put off" of hunting, he just isn' t as concerned with actually shooting anything as he used to be. Getting out in the woods and just enjoying nature and being with good friends is his only priority these days. That is, after all, what hunting is truly about. Again, very well said!

RE: What would you do?
 

I should add though, that shooting at sound or movement in the woods is extremely irresponsible. If I had been on that jury, I would have voted for the person to be convicted. Such an act is absolutely careless and should not be let go without punishment. I can' t believe the " hunter" was found innocent, that just blows my mind! Such a person should not be considered a hunter whatsoever IMO.

RE: What would you do?
 

Split-Hoof - I couldn' t agree more with you about the Wisconsin case. I can only judge from reading articles though, its the jurors who had all the evidence given to them. However, I was using it as an example to butress my case. If 12 reasonable people didn' t think that the Wisconsin shooting was criminal, we shouldn' t be jumping all over your friend for the accidental shooting of a second deer.

RE: What would you do?
 

True, without knowing the details it' s hard to say what the situation was. I was just going by the " shooting at sound and movement through brush" statement. Would you happen to have a link with info on that case?

RE: What would you do?
 

I would have done exactly what your friend done, and I wouldn' t have turned myself in for anything....99.9% of Game Warden' s are 100% ARSEHOLES.

RE: What would you do?
 

Here' s a link to a story on the Wisconsin hunting shooting - http://www.courttv.com/trials/berseth/verdict_ctv.html

I understand that a similar case in Maine led to a " target identification" law - http://janus.state.me.us/legis/statu...sec7406-A.html

RE: What would you do?
 

Ah yes, the classic shooting at the white object scenario. There was a case a few years back in Maine where a bowhunter shot at a white tag on an otherwise all orange hot seat. The arrow got the guy right in the a$$. Some people can be so foolish it is unbelievable.

As far as the WI case, that guy was certainly guilty of negligent homicide. He failed to identify his target, and he was also shooting in the direction of a road (which he knew was there). I am glad he is done hunting, the woods will be much safer without him!

RE: What would you do?
 

Split_hoof I totally agree!