Are they realy doing our sport justice???
07-22-2011, 09:26 AM
#31
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: kentucky
Posts: 273
Sorry, but when I see "I hunt over corn" and "Aint that what hunting is" together in a post, I have to speak up to defend my views of what hunting really is.
No, what you said is not what hunting is about at all. Come down to Alabama and LEGALLY hunt a tract of private land surrounded by hunting clubs who feed corn year round and poach and see if you can take 120"-140" bucks every season like we do. That's hunting. Just because you're sitting in the woods playing angry birds on your phone while you wait for a deer to come to some corn doesn't mean you're "in" nature or a so called woodsman. People who hunt over corn and feel like they've done something when they kill a deer lack the skill, patience, humility, respect, experience, and woodsmanship it takes to even come close to what I believe a true hunter is. When you put the time and efforts into preparing the land year after year, and actually follow a deer trail or find a pile of crap and actually do some scouting, then come post something on here about what hunting is. When you really connect with the land you hunt and respect everything in it, your conscious won't allow you to sit over a pile of corn and feel like you've done something when you kill a "trophy", no matter how many deer the neighbors kill over their corn piles. I may catch some flak from a few guys here when I say this, but in my opinion if you don't have the time to pay your dues by doing some simple scouting and instead choose to sit over a corn pile and shoot deer like fish in a barrel, you don't deserve to kill a single deer. I'm a die hard turkey hunter and when I had a lot of time on my hands in school, I legally called in and killed at least 3 turkeys every year while the county poacher bagged 40+ birds year in and year out with his 17 hmr. Last year I got to go maybe 7 times and didn't kill a single bird. Towards the end of the season I could have cowered down and tossed out some bait for em, but I kept on hunting like I was taught to do no matter what happened. Sometimes you get em, sometimes you don't. You enjoy every single minute of what the outdoors has to offer on any given day. You start scouting months in advance to try and choose the best location to give you the best legal shot at a deer. You invite friends and family to come along and enjoy it with you, and guess what, if they kill a trophy buck, you actually feel as good or better than if you had killed it. You sit on the tailgate with a buddy and eat oatmeal cream pies and beanie weenie and swap past hunting stories you'll never forget. Sit around a camp fire and have a beer (or six) while planning the morning hunt and listening to the coyotes act up across the river. You lay in a sleeping bag and think about the very first deer you killed with your dad or granddad's old rifle and how big of a smile they had on their face when you held that deer up proudly. You wake up and give it all you got and hope that stand location is in the exact location to stop the old bruiser in his tracks. If you fail, you've learned something and you start putting together a new plan for next time. Sometimes you get em, sometimes you don't. That's what hunting is all about to me.
No, what you said is not what hunting is about at all. Come down to Alabama and LEGALLY hunt a tract of private land surrounded by hunting clubs who feed corn year round and poach and see if you can take 120"-140" bucks every season like we do. That's hunting. Just because you're sitting in the woods playing angry birds on your phone while you wait for a deer to come to some corn doesn't mean you're "in" nature or a so called woodsman. People who hunt over corn and feel like they've done something when they kill a deer lack the skill, patience, humility, respect, experience, and woodsmanship it takes to even come close to what I believe a true hunter is. When you put the time and efforts into preparing the land year after year, and actually follow a deer trail or find a pile of crap and actually do some scouting, then come post something on here about what hunting is. When you really connect with the land you hunt and respect everything in it, your conscious won't allow you to sit over a pile of corn and feel like you've done something when you kill a "trophy", no matter how many deer the neighbors kill over their corn piles. I may catch some flak from a few guys here when I say this, but in my opinion if you don't have the time to pay your dues by doing some simple scouting and instead choose to sit over a corn pile and shoot deer like fish in a barrel, you don't deserve to kill a single deer. I'm a die hard turkey hunter and when I had a lot of time on my hands in school, I legally called in and killed at least 3 turkeys every year while the county poacher bagged 40+ birds year in and year out with his 17 hmr. Last year I got to go maybe 7 times and didn't kill a single bird. Towards the end of the season I could have cowered down and tossed out some bait for em, but I kept on hunting like I was taught to do no matter what happened. Sometimes you get em, sometimes you don't. You enjoy every single minute of what the outdoors has to offer on any given day. You start scouting months in advance to try and choose the best location to give you the best legal shot at a deer. You invite friends and family to come along and enjoy it with you, and guess what, if they kill a trophy buck, you actually feel as good or better than if you had killed it. You sit on the tailgate with a buddy and eat oatmeal cream pies and beanie weenie and swap past hunting stories you'll never forget. Sit around a camp fire and have a beer (or six) while planning the morning hunt and listening to the coyotes act up across the river. You lay in a sleeping bag and think about the very first deer you killed with your dad or granddad's old rifle and how big of a smile they had on their face when you held that deer up proudly. You wake up and give it all you got and hope that stand location is in the exact location to stop the old bruiser in his tracks. If you fail, you've learned something and you start putting together a new plan for next time. Sometimes you get em, sometimes you don't. That's what hunting is all about to me.
Yeah thats what hunting is...i hunt with family and friends over a corn FIELD not a pile. in doing so im helping out the farmer, having fun with family and friends and still getting outdoors and enjoying nature. obiously YOU dont understand what hunting is. if all you see is how you go about killing a buck then thats your curse. hunting has nothing to do with killing a buck,or how you do it
dont talk when you dont know what your talking about
07-22-2011, 10:07 AM
#32
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: South Central Missouri
Posts: 3,112
LOL Lets play nice kids.
If it is legal and a hunter wants to do it, then hunting over bait is your choice. Hunting at the edge of a crop field IS NOT baiting.
Back to the topic. I remember some years back in Iowa, I was guiding a hunter, and at the same time another Hunting Notoriety That does a show on the Outdoor Channel. They were both hunting the same property and the Hunter, harvested a nice 12 pt that scored 179. When we were getting the buck out the Notoriety was coming out too, and had his camera man do a short interview with the hunter. Then,,, the Notoriety asked and did a short segment with just himself and the buck. I would stake my life on it that the buck ended up on one of his shows as one of his kills. This Notoriety hunted with us for several years, in several states. He would never follow our instructions on what he needed to do, always left his stand sites littered with his garbage. And he never did harvest a buck, although 1 hunter did harvest a 191" buck the day after he said he wouldn't hunt that property because there were no good deer on it. lol He made up his own rules, and as you can guess, no longer hunts with us. I never liked his show anyway. lolol You have to have a respect for the land, the land owner, and above all else the animal you are trying to harvest.
If it is legal and a hunter wants to do it, then hunting over bait is your choice. Hunting at the edge of a crop field IS NOT baiting.
Back to the topic. I remember some years back in Iowa, I was guiding a hunter, and at the same time another Hunting Notoriety That does a show on the Outdoor Channel. They were both hunting the same property and the Hunter, harvested a nice 12 pt that scored 179. When we were getting the buck out the Notoriety was coming out too, and had his camera man do a short interview with the hunter. Then,,, the Notoriety asked and did a short segment with just himself and the buck. I would stake my life on it that the buck ended up on one of his shows as one of his kills. This Notoriety hunted with us for several years, in several states. He would never follow our instructions on what he needed to do, always left his stand sites littered with his garbage. And he never did harvest a buck, although 1 hunter did harvest a 191" buck the day after he said he wouldn't hunt that property because there were no good deer on it. lol He made up his own rules, and as you can guess, no longer hunts with us. I never liked his show anyway. lolol You have to have a respect for the land, the land owner, and above all else the animal you are trying to harvest.
07-22-2011, 08:51 PM
#33
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,068
So first it's "I hunt over corn" which means a pile of corn and we all know that. Now, after I made you feel bad for cheating, all of a sudden it's a corn "field". I don't care if it is legal, it's not hunting and you all know it. But sadly some people grow up being taught that you can't kill a deer unless your corn pile is fresh. There's been talk of legalizing hunting over corn here in Alabama. If it happens I'll quit hunting deer because it would no longer be a challenge. I guess if taking the easy road is your thing then more power to you. I just hope you all don't consider those bucks trophies because it takes zero skill to kill over corn piles. It's like a child molester luring a fat kid in his van with a pack of oreo cookies, there's no way on earth they can resist it.
07-23-2011, 04:49 PM
#34
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: kentucky
Posts: 273
So first it's "I hunt over corn" which means a pile of corn and we all know that. Now, after I made you feel bad for cheating, all of a sudden it's a corn "field". I don't care if it is legal, it's not hunting and you all know it. But sadly some people grow up being taught that you can't kill a deer unless your corn pile is fresh. There's been talk of legalizing hunting over corn here in Alabama. If it happens I'll quit hunting deer because it would no longer be a challenge. I guess if taking the easy road is your thing then more power to you. I just hope you all don't consider those bucks trophies because it takes zero skill to kill over corn piles. It's like a child molester luring a fat kid in his van with a pack of oreo cookies, there's no way on earth they can resist it.
and trying to take a mature whitetail buck is always challenging
07-25-2011, 10:50 AM
#35
Spike
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Mid/west Illinois
Posts: 60
I am a young hunter in comparison to most hunters on this forum, so i can see the use of attractants during hunting seasons as a marginal idea. I lay out food plots and until recently laid out minerals and salt block until they were deemed illegal by my state that is. Now all i do is put out food plots which only cost me about 150 bucks a year to do and after seeing the result of doing so after the first year i will continue to do so until deemed illegal. all that being said i agree with the poster most of the television shows out there are fenced baited and corralled deer on private property and should not be used in any commercial venture especially a televised one. For one it sends the wrong message and for second it does nothing especially if you can not understand the signs in front of your face when it come to deer hunting.
07-26-2011, 05:59 PM
#36
Spike
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Panhandle of Texas
Posts: 19
Wow!
Wow, this thread has gotten a little heated. I can tell you that right now, we are in a severe drought in Texas. I have been feeding a corn proten mix all summer to help out the deer. I am not feeding the deer to hunt them. but to keep the nursing does and bucks more healthy. Also, I have hunted East Texas for over 25 years, and have NEVER seen a mature buck come to a feeder. They must be getting their oreos somewhere else. We actually use a few feeders to pull in some pigs which we hammer after deer season. I'll shoot a corn fed pig any day.
Crossbows don't bother me, however, I would like to see their use limited to the general deer season with rifles. I don't think it's too much to ask to have a season specifically for traditional and compound bow hunters.
As far as hunting shows - as I said earlier there are good ones and bad ones out there. As mentioned earlier watch what fits you, or better yet make your own to share with family and friends. We watch our old hunting videos each year to gear up for the new season.
I will reiterate that I am a BIG believer in putting your time in as a hunter to be successful. Some have questioned it's importance here, but I believe it is the single most important factor when trying to harvest a mature buck. I do agree that it takes a little less time to prepare to hunt a place you know, but with a vast amount of National Forest available near us, I am always scouting new places to hunt. Usually, I will hunt in excess of 35-40 days each season. I averaged well over 60 in college (Man, I miss those days!) I'm fortunate that my whole family hunts (including my wife) - it keeps me from neglecting them. Hunting was part of our informal prenups. That being said it is also important to enter the woods at the right time. For instance, I set my stands in East Texas this weekend to bow hunt in October. I will not visit them again until October. No pushing deer, no disturbing them, hunting the right stand on the right wind = success. I have 6 bow stands hung for differents winds. Two are on the edge of food plots and 4 are on frequently used travel corridors. I have a couple of other stands on stand-bye to hunt other areas as needed. Hunting shows are for entertainment, what I've learned about hunting I've gotten first hand along with some tutoring from the old man.
Here's a picture of my wife's first solo buck and yes that is a food plot in the background!
PS - If your wife is keeping you from hunting, you my have married the wrong one.
Crossbows don't bother me, however, I would like to see their use limited to the general deer season with rifles. I don't think it's too much to ask to have a season specifically for traditional and compound bow hunters.
As far as hunting shows - as I said earlier there are good ones and bad ones out there. As mentioned earlier watch what fits you, or better yet make your own to share with family and friends. We watch our old hunting videos each year to gear up for the new season.
I will reiterate that I am a BIG believer in putting your time in as a hunter to be successful. Some have questioned it's importance here, but I believe it is the single most important factor when trying to harvest a mature buck. I do agree that it takes a little less time to prepare to hunt a place you know, but with a vast amount of National Forest available near us, I am always scouting new places to hunt. Usually, I will hunt in excess of 35-40 days each season. I averaged well over 60 in college (Man, I miss those days!) I'm fortunate that my whole family hunts (including my wife) - it keeps me from neglecting them. Hunting was part of our informal prenups. That being said it is also important to enter the woods at the right time. For instance, I set my stands in East Texas this weekend to bow hunt in October. I will not visit them again until October. No pushing deer, no disturbing them, hunting the right stand on the right wind = success. I have 6 bow stands hung for differents winds. Two are on the edge of food plots and 4 are on frequently used travel corridors. I have a couple of other stands on stand-bye to hunt other areas as needed. Hunting shows are for entertainment, what I've learned about hunting I've gotten first hand along with some tutoring from the old man.
Here's a picture of my wife's first solo buck and yes that is a food plot in the background!
PS - If your wife is keeping you from hunting, you my have married the wrong one.
07-29-2011, 08:35 AM
#37
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 389
Here in MN you can't use bait at all and where i hunt we still see 150+ deer but usually in someone elses field(go figure) but as a next generation hunter(still a minor) these "hunting" shows hurt hunting because whenever I ask my non-hunting friends to come out to scout with me just for something to do, they usually say yes because its fun to get out in the field but they expect to see 10-pointers in masses like they do on the shows, now where i hunt its more about getting the meat. We get the antlers and put them on display on our shed with pride even if its a little 3 pointer, we still know we took that deer with our own skill/luck...and maybe some help by the scent sprays but that's just my two cents on the topic.
07-31-2011, 09:22 PM
#38
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: West TN
Posts: 847
I just simply CAN'T watch ANY hunting or fishing show anymore, PERIOD!!! They ALL are just 30min-1hour infomercials for the latest/greatest gadgetry. In a typical 30min show there are now 10-12 minutes of actual footage/storyline. But then 90% of that small time is simply the host talking about or showing his blah blah blah from yadda yadda yadda and how you HAVE to get it if you want to stand a chance.
It's SICKENING and I just can't stomach it. Back when I was a kid, Bill Dance or Jimmy Houston might've had 1 commercial break about 2ce during their shows and the rest was spent showing the great outdoors and educating/entertaining. Now it's ALL ABOUT SELL SELL SELL and show off some 20something rednecks super tall, camoclad F-250 and his bleach blonde, bar ho wife...
It's SICKENING and I just can't stomach it. Back when I was a kid, Bill Dance or Jimmy Houston might've had 1 commercial break about 2ce during their shows and the rest was spent showing the great outdoors and educating/entertaining. Now it's ALL ABOUT SELL SELL SELL and show off some 20something rednecks super tall, camoclad F-250 and his bleach blonde, bar ho wife...
08-01-2011, 04:22 AM
#39
Typical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern WI
Posts: 853
Personally, I don't care for most hunting shows. But that is just me. I was raised on hunting, and shooting the animal is just one small part of it all. My Dad and older brother hunted and fished to put food on the table when my Dad's wages were not even enough to keep us all in food. So to me, the processing and end-use of the meat is just as big a deal as the hunt. Also, the prep is a big part. In the hunting shows, the killing often seems to be ALL of it - and that does not play well into the modern anti-hunting mindset. They could dedicate more shows to hunting preparation and perhaps processing and preparation of the meat (and compare to the ghoulish store-bought chemically raised meat we get from "meat farms") and they would do us all a favor.
Last edited by MZS; 08-01-2011 at 04:24 AM.
08-01-2011, 08:09 AM
#40
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 6,357
Everyone has their own ideas on these kind of subject. You asked me for mine, so I'll share.
For me hunting is not an activity I do that can be measured by the size of the antlers of the animal I take. Sometimes I take females that don't have antlers at all. I like to cook gourmet meals that center around my game meat and drink excellent wine with them. This is part of my hunting experience but not all. If it came down to that, it would be easier and possibly a better eating experience just to buy some excellent lamb chops, leg of lamb, excellent beef meat and cook that up.
Hunting for me is a complete constellation of things. I kill the deer (lately not deer but instead elk -- but this is a deer forum and when in Rome . . . ), I field dress it, I skin it, I cut it into quarters, I break the quarters down into meal sized packages, I wrap and freeze, and later I myself cook the meat. I need to put myself in the field at a location where I can get a shot at a deer. This is part of the challenge and pleasure. There are many skills involved in this. For example, walking around in the dark to find your designated spot. Deciding day to day where you are going to hunt, for example adjusting to different wind conditions. Getting the deer out of the woods when you get one. How do you pick a spot in the first place? How do you figure out what the deer are going to do? For me, this is what deer hunting (elk hunting) is all about, and the size of the antlers is not materially involved in any of that. Bigger antlers is not better for me. Perhaps bigger racks are more challenging to get, but I don't go hunting to create an artificially difficult challenge. If I need that, maybe I could set myself the challenge of perambulating to my hunting site on my hands or hopping on one foot or any number of other ways to challenge myself. I don't see the point of introducing these kinds of challenges.
Anyway, within this hunting perspective, I have no use for baiting or food plots or elevated blinds. I walk to my place. I find a place on the ground that is shadowy, where I can be partly screened by surrounding vegetation, and I hunt. I view this as kind of hunting au natural. I get deer this way. I sort of feel that this is a more fun way to hunt. If you want to call this introducing a challenge, OK, so be it. You just have to learn when and how the deer are going to move. It is not an excessive level of difficulty.
But in the final analysis, so long as a hunter obeys the law, I'm OK with how he wants to hunt. I just prefer to hunt in the way I described above. I get more satisfaction from a kill that way. I don't feel like I've coerced the odds unfairly in my favor.
For me hunting is not an activity I do that can be measured by the size of the antlers of the animal I take. Sometimes I take females that don't have antlers at all. I like to cook gourmet meals that center around my game meat and drink excellent wine with them. This is part of my hunting experience but not all. If it came down to that, it would be easier and possibly a better eating experience just to buy some excellent lamb chops, leg of lamb, excellent beef meat and cook that up.
Hunting for me is a complete constellation of things. I kill the deer (lately not deer but instead elk -- but this is a deer forum and when in Rome . . . ), I field dress it, I skin it, I cut it into quarters, I break the quarters down into meal sized packages, I wrap and freeze, and later I myself cook the meat. I need to put myself in the field at a location where I can get a shot at a deer. This is part of the challenge and pleasure. There are many skills involved in this. For example, walking around in the dark to find your designated spot. Deciding day to day where you are going to hunt, for example adjusting to different wind conditions. Getting the deer out of the woods when you get one. How do you pick a spot in the first place? How do you figure out what the deer are going to do? For me, this is what deer hunting (elk hunting) is all about, and the size of the antlers is not materially involved in any of that. Bigger antlers is not better for me. Perhaps bigger racks are more challenging to get, but I don't go hunting to create an artificially difficult challenge. If I need that, maybe I could set myself the challenge of perambulating to my hunting site on my hands or hopping on one foot or any number of other ways to challenge myself. I don't see the point of introducing these kinds of challenges.
Anyway, within this hunting perspective, I have no use for baiting or food plots or elevated blinds. I walk to my place. I find a place on the ground that is shadowy, where I can be partly screened by surrounding vegetation, and I hunt. I view this as kind of hunting au natural. I get deer this way. I sort of feel that this is a more fun way to hunt. If you want to call this introducing a challenge, OK, so be it. You just have to learn when and how the deer are going to move. It is not an excessive level of difficulty.
But in the final analysis, so long as a hunter obeys the law, I'm OK with how he wants to hunt. I just prefer to hunt in the way I described above. I get more satisfaction from a kill that way. I don't feel like I've coerced the odds unfairly in my favor.
