Venison temperature sitting on the butcher block.
07-21-2011, 05:43 PM
#31
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: North Louisiana
Posts: 3,050
Personally I wouldn't have eaten it, but I'm very picky when it comes to may things, especially cleaning, processing, and cooking wild game and fish. That's why I clean and process everything myself. I do sometimes have sausage made at a local store, but I know the people and trust them. I bring the two hind quarters and they immediately put them in the cooler. I'm glad it didn't hurt you, but I wouldn't push my luck. Some things are just not worth the risk. When I kill a deer, I clean it immediately, cut the backstraps and inner loins out, quarter the rest and put everything on ice. I keep it on ice for two or three days before processing. Some said just cook the meat thoroughlly. That won't matter if the meat is already spoiled. If it smells after cooking it, don't eat it.
07-26-2011, 12:05 PM
#32
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 6,357
If that buthcer were regulated by the government, he'd be closed for business. Food born illness bacteria begins to grow between 41 and 140 degrees (call the danger zone) after just 2 hours. 50 degree + for more than two hours - just asking for trouble. Sure, people have done it, its just a risk I won't take with my family.
What temperature is the deer at when it is killed? I reckon about 98 degrees. How long does it take to get that deer meat down to 41 degrees -- outside the "danger zone" -- starting from the moment the deer is dead? If you are bow hunting, aren't you supposed to give the deer 30 minutes to die? If it died off in the bush immediately, you lose 30 minutes before you even pull out your knife to field dress your deer. Say it takes you 10 minutes to field dress, 15 minutes to collect your gear and drag it to your truck, 35 minutes to drive to and get the deer checked in at a check station. Your time line is 1.5 hours when you pull out of the check station, and there are no unrealistic times in this time line so far. Meanwhile your deer is sitting hide-on in the back of your pick-up truck, outdoors, where it might be kind of warm, particularly if it is bow season. When you pop that baby into a locker at the butchers it isn't going to instantly assume the stable temperature of that locker. What if any of these time lines are extended? I think some of these numbers are excessively cautious and set up by government for butchering plants.
Why does bacteria begin growing only after 2 hours? Of course the bacteria begins growing immediately. Bacteria growth is a continuous process, its growth rate slows progressively at progressively cooler temperatures. I'm sure bacteria growth at 50 degrees is much slower than bacteria growth at 90 degrees.
When beef cattle are killed . . . how long is it before that big old side of beef is cooled down to 41 degrees?
No meat is bacteria free. The question is how much bacteria is present. Too much damages the meat and may make you sick. Frankly, I think the risk of damaging the meat and making it taste bad is worse than the risk of making you sick.
People kill elk on mornings with temperatures headed to 50+ degrees outside -- and elk are big animals -- so I think the meat of these animals probably won't get down to 41 degrees until maybe 10 PM at night after a 10 AM kill, presuming the animal is gutted and quartered. I don't think that would be an unusual situation whatsoever.
As far as the cost for butchering. It is a market driven thing. If you can find someone to do it cheaper, go for it. It takes me from 3-4 hours to skin, quarter, and butcher a smallish deer. $25/hour doesn't seem exhorbitant. I field dress, skin, quarter, butcher, and cook my own deer and elk meat.
Last edited by Alsatian; 07-26-2011 at 12:13 PM.
07-26-2011, 06:30 PM
#33
Typical Buck
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 585
Don't mean to beat up on you A11en, but I want to analyze these statements which are fairly common and not unique to you.
What temperature is the deer at when it is killed? I reckon about 98 degrees. How long does it take to get that deer meat down to 41 degrees -- outside the "danger zone" -- starting from the moment the deer is dead? If you are bow hunting, aren't you supposed to give the deer 30 minutes to die? If it died off in the bush immediately, you lose 30 minutes before you even pull out your knife to field dress your deer. Say it takes you 10 minutes to field dress, 15 minutes to collect your gear and drag it to your truck, 35 minutes to drive to and get the deer checked in at a check station. Your time line is 1.5 hours when you pull out of the check station, and there are no unrealistic times in this time line so far. Meanwhile your deer is sitting hide-on in the back of your pick-up truck, outdoors, where it might be kind of warm, particularly if it is bow season. When you pop that baby into a locker at the butchers it isn't going to instantly assume the stable temperature of that locker. What if any of these time lines are extended? I think some of these numbers are excessively cautious and set up by government for butchering plants.
Why does bacteria begin growing only after 2 hours? Of course the bacteria begins growing immediately. Bacteria growth is a continuous process, its growth rate slows progressively at progressively cooler temperatures. I'm sure bacteria growth at 50 degrees is much slower than bacteria growth at 90 degrees.
When beef cattle are killed . . . how long is it before that big old side of beef is cooled down to 41 degrees?
No meat is bacteria free. The question is how much bacteria is present. Too much damages the meat and may make you sick. Frankly, I think the risk of damaging the meat and making it taste bad is worse than the risk of making you sick.
People kill elk on mornings with temperatures headed to 50+ degrees outside -- and elk are big animals -- so I think the meat of these animals probably won't get down to 41 degrees until maybe 10 PM at night after a 10 AM kill, presuming the animal is gutted and quartered. I don't think that would be an unusual situation whatsoever.
As far as the cost for butchering. It is a market driven thing. If you can find someone to do it cheaper, go for it. It takes me from 3-4 hours to skin, quarter, and butcher a smallish deer. $25/hour doesn't seem exhorbitant. I field dress, skin, quarter, butcher, and cook my own deer and elk meat.
What temperature is the deer at when it is killed? I reckon about 98 degrees. How long does it take to get that deer meat down to 41 degrees -- outside the "danger zone" -- starting from the moment the deer is dead? If you are bow hunting, aren't you supposed to give the deer 30 minutes to die? If it died off in the bush immediately, you lose 30 minutes before you even pull out your knife to field dress your deer. Say it takes you 10 minutes to field dress, 15 minutes to collect your gear and drag it to your truck, 35 minutes to drive to and get the deer checked in at a check station. Your time line is 1.5 hours when you pull out of the check station, and there are no unrealistic times in this time line so far. Meanwhile your deer is sitting hide-on in the back of your pick-up truck, outdoors, where it might be kind of warm, particularly if it is bow season. When you pop that baby into a locker at the butchers it isn't going to instantly assume the stable temperature of that locker. What if any of these time lines are extended? I think some of these numbers are excessively cautious and set up by government for butchering plants.
Why does bacteria begin growing only after 2 hours? Of course the bacteria begins growing immediately. Bacteria growth is a continuous process, its growth rate slows progressively at progressively cooler temperatures. I'm sure bacteria growth at 50 degrees is much slower than bacteria growth at 90 degrees.
When beef cattle are killed . . . how long is it before that big old side of beef is cooled down to 41 degrees?
No meat is bacteria free. The question is how much bacteria is present. Too much damages the meat and may make you sick. Frankly, I think the risk of damaging the meat and making it taste bad is worse than the risk of making you sick.
People kill elk on mornings with temperatures headed to 50+ degrees outside -- and elk are big animals -- so I think the meat of these animals probably won't get down to 41 degrees until maybe 10 PM at night after a 10 AM kill, presuming the animal is gutted and quartered. I don't think that would be an unusual situation whatsoever.
As far as the cost for butchering. It is a market driven thing. If you can find someone to do it cheaper, go for it. It takes me from 3-4 hours to skin, quarter, and butcher a smallish deer. $25/hour doesn't seem exhorbitant. I field dress, skin, quarter, butcher, and cook my own deer and elk meat.
In your effort to caculate the time it takes me to get a deer out of woods, you've made several inaccurate assumptions about my hunting routine.
- I bow hunt in a maple / oak flat with great visibility and almost always see the deer drop in sight of my stand. Occasionally they go just out of sight (60+ yards) but I typically recover them within 30 minutes of the shot.
- I don't field dress deer in the woods, I do it when I butcher them hanging in my backyard
- We don't take deer to a check station. Our state simply requires we call it in via phone
- I bow hunt 500 yards from my house - and am able to recover the deer and gear with my jeep
So when I said from shot to fridge (quartered) in 2 hours, I ment 2 hours. When I rifle hunt, the tempuratures are usually much more forgiving - but even then, I will typically have the deer quartered and on ice in the cooler within a couple hours.
I'm not going to debate you on the food safety danger zone as it is a well know fact for those with formally educated in this area. I'm also not saying you can't eat the deer if you don't follow food safetly guidlines. I just choose not to take the risk.
Last edited by A11en; 07-27-2011 at 06:08 PM.
