Lets Get This Straight
 

Before I go on today's filming adventure I want to get something straight. Some might think I am against camo because I said it does not work on deer. But that is because deer do not see like we do. However camo is effective on coyotes, cats, turkeys, and other animals that have a more fine tuned sense of vision. When it comes to hunting deer only..... camo patterns all blur into a solid. So yes I do wear camo into the field but it's not to "hide" from the deer. It is to try to conceal myself from the creatures that see more like we do. You guys and gals have a great day and get out into the wild at every opportunity!
Live it up! Doug

An interesting Informal camo study!
Live it up! Doug

There is no way for you to know exactly how a deer sees. What you are saying is pure speculation, unless you used to be a deer. You cannot say for sure that whatever we wear blends into a solid mass of color to them. I think if that were the case, and I said this earlier, they'd be stumbling through the woods like idiots, and they'd miss branches with their mouths when they go to nibble on buds, etc.

There is research on the subject.... do some!:D But to make it a little easier for you. Here Proof that what I'm saying is not "pure speculation"
Live it up! Doug

i have read in the latest issue of whitetail that in a resent study that deer can see allot better than they thought. the most revolting color to a deers eye is blue. thats what the study said. but i do agree with 7.6 to a extent. never know unless u were a deer in a past life :)

This is exactly why i believe all of our camo is too dark. I wear 'natural gear' camo as much as i can.

Not trying to be a smart arse,,, but I think if your 20-30 feet in a tree who cares what your wearing? An eagle, hawk whatever are very good hunters and they are a solid color.

No way! im not say that I know what a deer sees but I am saying that whitetail mag said that because they are sponsored by a camo company and want you to spend more money.

Statement of fact or opinion. No way you could know and you can read all you want to about it, you still can't prove it.

I'm going to have to whip out my BS card here. ;) All joking aside, this statement isn't entirely true. Nobody here has ever been a virus either, but scientists have pretty well figured out how they work.

Rods are rods, and cones are cones. Biologists have a really good understanding of how mammalian vision works, and the basic parts are fairly similar. Just like a mechanic who knows his engine parts can figure out a new engine fairly easily, a biologist can make some logical conclusions on how vision in other mammals works. The lack of certain cones, for instance, tells you what colors they have trouble detecting. Therefore, it's inaccurate to say we have 'no idea' what deer can see. Unless deer are aliens that have developed wildly different senses, we have a pretty good idea of what they can see based on basic biology.

But regarding camo, I'm going to have to agree with kswild...to a point. Some camo patterns don't work well once you get beyond close distances. The busier-looking, 'photo quality' camo patterns integrate into solid colors when viewed from a distance. That's why the military never uses those patterns. ;) Larger blobs and mixtures of light on dark (think military camo) work better for breaking up the human form. The modern military 'digital' camo patterns are meant to solve the integration problem by being able to scale up or down to blend into the background (ie. work well both close up and at a distance). I believe it's based on fractal theory...small patterns that work at close range integrate into larger patterns that break up your outline at greater ranges.

All that said, IIRC a deer's sense of sight is about 3rd, behind scent and hearing, in their toolset for detecting predators. If that's true, concentrating on hunting the wind and staying quiet rank up there with selection of camo. Camo is merely meant to break up your outline, so a cheap set of military fatigues probably works as well as the hideously expensive set up designer camo.

The plain and simple of it is...... the only way to conceal yourself from a deer and blend into your surroundings as far as eyesight is concerned is to NOT MOVE. Regardless of what you are wearing. Period.
Live it up! Doug

I don't need too, it's already BEEN proven!
Live it up! Doug

It doesn't really matter much to me. You can get camo clothing for the same price as non-camo, so why not just wear camo?

I keep my hunting clothing in a large tupperwear container with pine and cedar shavings and other plant material, so I'm not going to be wearing my casual clothes hunting or visa versa. Since I have one designated set of hunting clothing, it might as well be camo. I know this system doesn't eliminate my human odor, but I use it in addition to checking the wind and hunting from an elevated stand when I can, and it seems to work alright. It is a lot cheaper than scent-lok. I figure if there is even a .001% chance of making the difference between getting a deer or not getting one, it is worth the 5 minutes of extra effort, and it is worth just wearing camo.

Okay, let's get some CONTEXT and clarification here.

When I first addressed the camo issue with Doug (in the "cover scent LIE" thread), the CONTEXT was STILL HUNTING. You know, where you're not frickin' hiding up in a tree all day long. SOMETIMES, you get caught out in the open, with no cover. Deer appear when they appear, and sometimes you get caught off guard and you have to stand dead still, hoping the deer don't see you for what you are. It was then I supposed it would be better to be in a camo pattern like ASAT or Predator (patterns where the sole purpose is to break up your outline) than in a solid color. It was also there that I dismissed camo that turns into a solid blob from a distance (e.g. RealTree and Mossy Oak, etc). My argument has NEVER been that you shouldn't try to blend in with your surroundings (when possible).

When I made the direct statement to Doug that, assuming you were caught in this position during a stalk, "I guarantee you that if you are standing against a tree in a single solid color and I'm standing against a tree in ASAT, the deer will make you out first," he basically dodged it. And, it's funny, he posts an article here that's basically a backing for Predator camo or patterns like it.

Let's clear it up. Doug IS saying that camo makes absolutely no difference for deer. He IS saying that deer CANNOT distinguish between a jacket of solid color or a jacket with a pattern on it...that there is NO difference. NEITHER of the articles he posted support this, and NEITHER does a deer's limited ability to see color.

What I am saying is not that we can't have an UNDERSTANDING of how we THINK deer see, but that there is no way for us to KNOW EXACTLY how deer see. There is NO conclusive evidence whatsoever that wearing a pattern like ASAT does NOT help you blend in with your surroundings. There are, however, plenty of distant pictures that show exactly how well it DOES help conceal your outline and blend it into your surroundings.

UPHunter - Understanding engines and being able to observe how viruses work are not exactly the same thing as knowing exactly what an actual image looks like to a species with whom you cannot communicate. Even in talking to my color blind friend, it is very difficult for him to explain to me how he sees things, and vice versa. I don't think he can really comprehend what a human's full color spectrum looks like, and I can't understand what it's like to see in his more limited spectrum. It's kinda like trying to understand why a catfish likes to eat that nasty chicken liver dough bait. I can take a bite if I want to, but there's no way in hell I'm ever gonna "get it", even if a scientist could "explain" it all day long.

But you are looking at THOSE pictures with the HUMAN eye and deer do NOT see like humans. Those pictures only make YOU think you are concealed and blending in. If I were to use your own argument against you. You say there is no way of knowing so... you can not present ANY evidence saying ANY camo pattern WORKS because using your argument there is no way of knowing. What did guys do before camo was invented? Not hunt? I am saying the pattern on your clothes makes NO difference where as the color might. Try standing at the edge of a field up against a tree a little before sunset in a black and red checkered coat. I will guarantee you that if deer are coming to that field on a regular basis and you do not move they will not see you are there. This I can tell you from experience. I've had deer walk out 30 ft from me and never knew I was there. Camo are just clothes the pattern does not hide you from deer.
Live it up! Doug

So, if I am not moving in the middle of Autumn but I am covered from head to toe in all white, or any solid color vs someone dressed in a plaid or camo or any clothing that breaks up their pattern, are you saying the deer (who knows every piece in his woods, down to the smallest detail) will not realize either of us is in his area, if he cannot hear us or smell us? Wow, that's a looooong sentence I just wrote but I hope you understand my question.

I have the utmost respect for the deer's senses, especially his sense of smell, but they also rely of other sense for survival. His eyesight is very close to humans (MHO) but they live there and will certainly realize when something is out of order, especially if it poses a threat. To me, wearing clothing that breaks up my pattern will only male it more difficult for the deer to realize what he is seeing. Bottom line, blending in to my environment will always make me a more successful hunter vs wearing a solid color, especially if no movement is involved.

If I am wrong here, please enlighten me.

The problem is that it is very hard for people to realize that deer don't think, see,smell, or anything else like us humans do. They do not process information like we do. They are a prey animal they do not hunt other animals like us reasoning predators. They do not reason. Because if what you are saying is true the minute you put up a ground blind in their "Home" they would never come back. They operate by instinct sight and flight behavior. I don't want to come off as a know it all... but I have had many experiences in the wild interacting with deer. I have been walking down a dry creek bed looking up at trees to climb and had a mature buck come right down in the creek bed with me at about 40 yrds away, there we were face to face the only thing I had time to do was kneel down as I saw him coming over the top of the bank. I am completely in the open with nothing to break up my outline behind me. Not wearing camo just regular street clothes. He knew there was something there but could not tell what I was even at 40 yrds. He pretended to eat with his head down watching me for movement and I was froze solid did not move a muscle. He tried to fake me out about 3 times and when I did not move he walked up over the bank and disappeared never spooked, snorted, never ran and it wasn't because of what I was wearing. He could not figure me out 40 yards from his nose, face to face with no cover. People have been taught by the people who sell the products not by mother nature. Camo will work on predators with more fine tuned eyesight. Just not deer. When it comes to eyesight of deer MOVEMENT is the key! You have never been busted by deer in the open and just froze and pretty soon they went back to doing what they were doing? Wasn't what you were wearing it was your movement. Sorry for the book!
Hope this helps!
Live it up! Doug

After reading this post I can't make up my mind to buy a ghillie suit or jeans and t-shirts.... hmmmm.....
Since no one asked me for my opinion this is what I think! I know you can kill deer in jeans and a hoodie sweatshirt. I have done it on some of the most pressured hunting land in VA.
BUT! From what I have read on here from FAR away camo is no good. It just turns into a blob. What about up close? If a deer can see contrasting colors and Im wearing a camo pattern that helps a little then why not wear it? Now I agree deer key in on movement but I have been spotted by deer without moving a muscle. I was wearing camo and if they spotted me in camo then they would have spotted me jeans too. I think the only way to completely HIDE from a deer is too be in a blind, be in a ghillie suit and be motionless, be in a tree stand and hope the deer doesn't look up, or burry yourself in leaves (even though it would be hard to get a shot). I think there are too many variables to say one way or the other that camo does or doesn't work. MHO is that SOME of it works to a degree good enough to help. Which one works best? WHO CARES? I already have my hunting clothes and they are camo, warm, and water proof! I kill deer in them and they make me happy when I put them on cause I know I am going hunting!!!!!!!!! WOOOO!!!!!