buying land with others?
10-05-2010, 04:46 PM
#1
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: nw pa
Posts: 45
buying land with others?
Looking into buying some hunting land with a few other guys. Has any one done this before. IF so what advice you would give? Do you set if up as a business/club with robert rules of order? How many guys is too many or not enough? How much acerage is enough for several guys to hunt. (located in nw pa mostly wooded land with few fields).
I currently own 49 acres in ny state. I could sell it and use the cash to buy my more acres in pa. I think i would rather keep it and buy more with a few other guys. Looking for some advice
One example of a guy i know that is involed in buying land with others has a buy back policy. IF at any time you want out of the deal the club/ business with buy you out with a 6% return on your investment (with 1 year advanced notice).
I currently own 49 acres in ny state. I could sell it and use the cash to buy my more acres in pa. I think i would rather keep it and buy more with a few other guys. Looking for some advice
One example of a guy i know that is involed in buying land with others has a buy back policy. IF at any time you want out of the deal the club/ business with buy you out with a 6% return on your investment (with 1 year advanced notice).
10-05-2010, 05:33 PM
#2
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 220
I was telling a story not long ago about a man who complained about his neighbors who were kind enough to let him hunt on their land and the story about the people my dad associated with who owned land bordering game lands that allowed them to drive up their hill to get to the top of the hill to make it easier to get into the game lands.
The ruts were very deep in the road and dad gave them a case or two of beer every year for letting him drive up the road.
Later they sold the land to a old steelworker from Leetsdale PA and that guy did not allow anyone to drive on his property.
Later we repaired his tractor for him so he could repair his road and plow his snow in the winter and in return he left us drive up his road one time before he sold his property.
The next family to buy the land was friends with my dad. We went to church together and the family was originally from Latrobe PA and the patriarch of the family was a boss at one time who worked for a company called Season All - that made replacement doors and windows. When he lost his job - himself and a couple of other bosses from Season All went into business for themselves and at one point I worked for this man for a year.
He was a good christian family man and wanted to provide for his family. So he took his savings and bought 90 acres of land and he set up a corporation where each family member owned part of the camp. The distant relatives were all able to buy into this idea of his.
They elected a president, which just happened to be his son, who was also the president of his window company - once he retired.
The son must have been a good carpenter at one time, except that he didn't know as much as he claimed to know and the employees could do a good enough job to please the customer - but not the employer.
Well he had bright idea's on how to rehabilitate the landowners farm house and in the end he spent too much money and the other owners were upset about him presenting them with a bill for the costs. On several occasions I went to their camp and helped for free - even though I was not working for them anymore and was not allowed to drive up their hill to get to the game lands.
Then the fighting started. Some nights it got so bad that they had to call the PA State Police.
I believe that it all started about the same time as when the rules started. Not all men are men, and not all wives can understand a man going to camp for a week and the wives not being allowed to go too - even though the camp charter said no women allowed.
I guess marriage is a 50/50 proposition where the women owns half of everything and it is hard to tell a woman that she has to contribute to a hunting camp that she cannot use in hunting season.
The next step was that the owners son told the members - who were all his family members that if they did not like the rules they made - that he would buy them out and they could leave.
Well they started out with 14 members and when they got down to less then 8 - they could no longer pay the taxes and the payments on the camp and they had to sell the camp.
I do not believe that the whole camp ownership thing lasted more then 8 years.
Its easy to get a bunch of guys together to buy land, it might even be easy to get enough money rounded up to buy the land, but when taxes are due and insurance is due, people will have 100 excuses why they cannot come up with their share of the money.
They still want to use the camp or the land, but they don't want to pay their fair share. It has happened in my own family - which had 100 acres of land - just across the road from this place.
So the land was sold again and this time the person that bought the land was a guy that I played football with in high school. His dad was the plant manager of the local factory in town where my dad worked. I'm not sure of the whole story, but I think he was married once and divorced and now is living with a woman.
His new girlfriend / wife - what ever loves horses and they bought the land so they could have someplace where he could hunt and she could keep her horses - so again - I do not have permission to drive across his land to get to the woods to go hunting.
Its not a big deal because Pennsylvania has 1 million acres of land that you can hunt all you want for free - all you have to do is abide by their rules. It's called Game Lands and anyone is welcome to hunt there as long as they buy a hunting license.
The PGC did us a big favor about 6 years ago and opened a new road - which was always there, but was not open for travel. They built a parking lot in a mud hole and put a gate across the road, not more then 1/2 a mile away from where I hunted from the very first time I hunted deer when I was 13 years old - some 33 years ago, when we had to walk several miles back in to get to our stands.
So asking someone if I can have permission to drive up his hill in the middle of winter so I can walk 1/2 a mile back into the woods to hunt deer isn't something I need to stick my head out to do anymore - because I can drive up the road anytime I want to as long as the gate into the game lands is not locked.
The road going back in is fairly flat and level and is a nice scenic drive.
So my advice to you is not to have any partners. If you can afford to buy land - buy it. If you have land in New York - enough to buy a resident hunting license and have good deer and turkey hunting up there - don't sell it. It won't be very long and everybody is either going to have to own a piece of land or hunt the game lands with all the posted signs in my area of the country.
The ruts were very deep in the road and dad gave them a case or two of beer every year for letting him drive up the road.
Later they sold the land to a old steelworker from Leetsdale PA and that guy did not allow anyone to drive on his property.
Later we repaired his tractor for him so he could repair his road and plow his snow in the winter and in return he left us drive up his road one time before he sold his property.
The next family to buy the land was friends with my dad. We went to church together and the family was originally from Latrobe PA and the patriarch of the family was a boss at one time who worked for a company called Season All - that made replacement doors and windows. When he lost his job - himself and a couple of other bosses from Season All went into business for themselves and at one point I worked for this man for a year.
He was a good christian family man and wanted to provide for his family. So he took his savings and bought 90 acres of land and he set up a corporation where each family member owned part of the camp. The distant relatives were all able to buy into this idea of his.
They elected a president, which just happened to be his son, who was also the president of his window company - once he retired.
The son must have been a good carpenter at one time, except that he didn't know as much as he claimed to know and the employees could do a good enough job to please the customer - but not the employer.
Well he had bright idea's on how to rehabilitate the landowners farm house and in the end he spent too much money and the other owners were upset about him presenting them with a bill for the costs. On several occasions I went to their camp and helped for free - even though I was not working for them anymore and was not allowed to drive up their hill to get to the game lands.
Then the fighting started. Some nights it got so bad that they had to call the PA State Police.
I believe that it all started about the same time as when the rules started. Not all men are men, and not all wives can understand a man going to camp for a week and the wives not being allowed to go too - even though the camp charter said no women allowed.
I guess marriage is a 50/50 proposition where the women owns half of everything and it is hard to tell a woman that she has to contribute to a hunting camp that she cannot use in hunting season.
The next step was that the owners son told the members - who were all his family members that if they did not like the rules they made - that he would buy them out and they could leave.
Well they started out with 14 members and when they got down to less then 8 - they could no longer pay the taxes and the payments on the camp and they had to sell the camp.
I do not believe that the whole camp ownership thing lasted more then 8 years.
Its easy to get a bunch of guys together to buy land, it might even be easy to get enough money rounded up to buy the land, but when taxes are due and insurance is due, people will have 100 excuses why they cannot come up with their share of the money.
They still want to use the camp or the land, but they don't want to pay their fair share. It has happened in my own family - which had 100 acres of land - just across the road from this place.
So the land was sold again and this time the person that bought the land was a guy that I played football with in high school. His dad was the plant manager of the local factory in town where my dad worked. I'm not sure of the whole story, but I think he was married once and divorced and now is living with a woman.
His new girlfriend / wife - what ever loves horses and they bought the land so they could have someplace where he could hunt and she could keep her horses - so again - I do not have permission to drive across his land to get to the woods to go hunting.
Its not a big deal because Pennsylvania has 1 million acres of land that you can hunt all you want for free - all you have to do is abide by their rules. It's called Game Lands and anyone is welcome to hunt there as long as they buy a hunting license.
The PGC did us a big favor about 6 years ago and opened a new road - which was always there, but was not open for travel. They built a parking lot in a mud hole and put a gate across the road, not more then 1/2 a mile away from where I hunted from the very first time I hunted deer when I was 13 years old - some 33 years ago, when we had to walk several miles back in to get to our stands.
So asking someone if I can have permission to drive up his hill in the middle of winter so I can walk 1/2 a mile back into the woods to hunt deer isn't something I need to stick my head out to do anymore - because I can drive up the road anytime I want to as long as the gate into the game lands is not locked.
The road going back in is fairly flat and level and is a nice scenic drive.
So my advice to you is not to have any partners. If you can afford to buy land - buy it. If you have land in New York - enough to buy a resident hunting license and have good deer and turkey hunting up there - don't sell it. It won't be very long and everybody is either going to have to own a piece of land or hunt the game lands with all the posted signs in my area of the country.
10-05-2010, 05:52 PM
#4
Spike
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 15
Agree with what some have said about a partnership being tough. Just look at the current state of the economy to see how many businesses/partnerships have gone under and most of these had the opportunity to generate revenue. Only way I would possibly do it is if everyone was in with cash money. No loans. I would also shy away from any "guaranteed" buyback as life and financial circumstances will put people in a place where they can't afford the buyback and the guy that needs out will either default or be soured to the whole deal.
10-05-2010, 07:31 PM
#5
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 157
Not saying it is a bad idea though. If you can all agree on everything and get all of the legal things out of the way, do it and enjoy the land and each other.
10-06-2010, 04:31 AM
#6
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ponce de Leon Florida USA
Posts: 10,079
It sounds good, but I wouldn't touch a partnership landownership deal with a 10 foot pole. Odds are it isn't going to work and it will be more expense when it is dissolved, probably with lost friendships.
10-06-2010, 05:15 AM
#7
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 542
Personally, I would hate to buy land with others. You get tied at the hip for better or worse. I was on a lease for a few years with some other guys and it didn't work so well. They lived down the road from the land and I lived 2 hrs away. They setup stands at the best spots and left them up year after year. My father-in-law and I were left with the less desirable areas. So we didn't hunt in their areas, but they had no problem hunting ours. I even had one of them setup a stand 15 yds from mine once!
Needless to say, they got the best deer every year and got upset with us for shooting smaller bucks. Well smaller bucks is all we ever saw since they had the best spots. We finally got out of the lease and I haven't regretted it for even a fraction of a second.
Needless to say, they got the best deer every year and got upset with us for shooting smaller bucks. Well smaller bucks is all we ever saw since they had the best spots. We finally got out of the lease and I haven't regretted it for even a fraction of a second.
10-06-2010, 09:01 AM
#8
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 320
If you do it, even if it's family members, incorporate it. This will protect you from liability. If someone gets hurt on your land, they can sue you which will not only cost you that hunting land, but you could lose your personal property as well (e.g. savings, house, etc). Also, incorporation protects you in the event that someone gets a divorce and their ex-wife tries to get a piece of the property as part of the settlement.
10-06-2010, 09:05 AM
#9
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southern Maryland
Posts: 357
I was telling a story not long ago about a man who complained about his neighbors who were kind enough to let him hunt on their land and the story about the people my dad associated with who owned land bordering game lands that allowed them to drive up their hill to get to the top of the hill to make it easier to get into the game lands.
The ruts were very deep in the road and dad gave them a case or two of beer every year for letting him drive up the road.
Later they sold the land to a old steelworker from Leetsdale PA and that guy did not allow anyone to drive on his property.
Later we repaired his tractor for him so he could repair his road and plow his snow in the winter and in return he left us drive up his road one time before he sold his property.
The next family to buy the land was friends with my dad. We went to church together and the family was originally from Latrobe PA and the patriarch of the family was a boss at one time who worked for a company called Season All - that made replacement doors and windows. When he lost his job - himself and a couple of other bosses from Season All went into business for themselves and at one point I worked for this man for a year.
He was a good christian family man and wanted to provide for his family. So he took his savings and bought 90 acres of land and he set up a corporation where each family member owned part of the camp. The distant relatives were all able to buy into this idea of his.
They elected a president, which just happened to be his son, who was also the president of his window company - once he retired.
The son must have been a good carpenter at one time, except that he didn't know as much as he claimed to know and the employees could do a good enough job to please the customer - but not the employer.
Well he had bright idea's on how to rehabilitate the landowners farm house and in the end he spent too much money and the other owners were upset about him presenting them with a bill for the costs. On several occasions I went to their camp and helped for free - even though I was not working for them anymore and was not allowed to drive up their hill to get to the game lands.
Then the fighting started. Some nights it got so bad that they had to call the PA State Police.
I believe that it all started about the same time as when the rules started. Not all men are men, and not all wives can understand a man going to camp for a week and the wives not being allowed to go too - even though the camp charter said no women allowed.
I guess marriage is a 50/50 proposition where the women owns half of everything and it is hard to tell a woman that she has to contribute to a hunting camp that she cannot use in hunting season.
The next step was that the owners son told the members - who were all his family members that if they did not like the rules they made - that he would buy them out and they could leave.
Well they started out with 14 members and when they got down to less then 8 - they could no longer pay the taxes and the payments on the camp and they had to sell the camp.
I do not believe that the whole camp ownership thing lasted more then 8 years.
Its easy to get a bunch of guys together to buy land, it might even be easy to get enough money rounded up to buy the land, but when taxes are due and insurance is due, people will have 100 excuses why they cannot come up with their share of the money.
They still want to use the camp or the land, but they don't want to pay their fair share. It has happened in my own family - which had 100 acres of land - just across the road from this place.
So the land was sold again and this time the person that bought the land was a guy that I played football with in high school. His dad was the plant manager of the local factory in town where my dad worked. I'm not sure of the whole story, but I think he was married once and divorced and now is living with a woman.
His new girlfriend / wife - what ever loves horses and they bought the land so they could have someplace where he could hunt and she could keep her horses - so again - I do not have permission to drive across his land to get to the woods to go hunting.
Its not a big deal because Pennsylvania has 1 million acres of land that you can hunt all you want for free - all you have to do is abide by their rules. It's called Game Lands and anyone is welcome to hunt there as long as they buy a hunting license.
The PGC did us a big favor about 6 years ago and opened a new road - which was always there, but was not open for travel. They built a parking lot in a mud hole and put a gate across the road, not more then 1/2 a mile away from where I hunted from the very first time I hunted deer when I was 13 years old - some 33 years ago, when we had to walk several miles back in to get to our stands.
So asking someone if I can have permission to drive up his hill in the middle of winter so I can walk 1/2 a mile back into the woods to hunt deer isn't something I need to stick my head out to do anymore - because I can drive up the road anytime I want to as long as the gate into the game lands is not locked.
The road going back in is fairly flat and level and is a nice scenic drive.
So my advice to you is not to have any partners. If you can afford to buy land - buy it. If you have land in New York - enough to buy a resident hunting license and have good deer and turkey hunting up there - don't sell it. It won't be very long and everybody is either going to have to own a piece of land or hunt the game lands with all the posted signs in my area of the country.
The ruts were very deep in the road and dad gave them a case or two of beer every year for letting him drive up the road.
Later they sold the land to a old steelworker from Leetsdale PA and that guy did not allow anyone to drive on his property.
Later we repaired his tractor for him so he could repair his road and plow his snow in the winter and in return he left us drive up his road one time before he sold his property.
The next family to buy the land was friends with my dad. We went to church together and the family was originally from Latrobe PA and the patriarch of the family was a boss at one time who worked for a company called Season All - that made replacement doors and windows. When he lost his job - himself and a couple of other bosses from Season All went into business for themselves and at one point I worked for this man for a year.
He was a good christian family man and wanted to provide for his family. So he took his savings and bought 90 acres of land and he set up a corporation where each family member owned part of the camp. The distant relatives were all able to buy into this idea of his.
They elected a president, which just happened to be his son, who was also the president of his window company - once he retired.
The son must have been a good carpenter at one time, except that he didn't know as much as he claimed to know and the employees could do a good enough job to please the customer - but not the employer.
Well he had bright idea's on how to rehabilitate the landowners farm house and in the end he spent too much money and the other owners were upset about him presenting them with a bill for the costs. On several occasions I went to their camp and helped for free - even though I was not working for them anymore and was not allowed to drive up their hill to get to the game lands.
Then the fighting started. Some nights it got so bad that they had to call the PA State Police.
I believe that it all started about the same time as when the rules started. Not all men are men, and not all wives can understand a man going to camp for a week and the wives not being allowed to go too - even though the camp charter said no women allowed.
I guess marriage is a 50/50 proposition where the women owns half of everything and it is hard to tell a woman that she has to contribute to a hunting camp that she cannot use in hunting season.
The next step was that the owners son told the members - who were all his family members that if they did not like the rules they made - that he would buy them out and they could leave.
Well they started out with 14 members and when they got down to less then 8 - they could no longer pay the taxes and the payments on the camp and they had to sell the camp.
I do not believe that the whole camp ownership thing lasted more then 8 years.
Its easy to get a bunch of guys together to buy land, it might even be easy to get enough money rounded up to buy the land, but when taxes are due and insurance is due, people will have 100 excuses why they cannot come up with their share of the money.
They still want to use the camp or the land, but they don't want to pay their fair share. It has happened in my own family - which had 100 acres of land - just across the road from this place.
So the land was sold again and this time the person that bought the land was a guy that I played football with in high school. His dad was the plant manager of the local factory in town where my dad worked. I'm not sure of the whole story, but I think he was married once and divorced and now is living with a woman.
His new girlfriend / wife - what ever loves horses and they bought the land so they could have someplace where he could hunt and she could keep her horses - so again - I do not have permission to drive across his land to get to the woods to go hunting.
Its not a big deal because Pennsylvania has 1 million acres of land that you can hunt all you want for free - all you have to do is abide by their rules. It's called Game Lands and anyone is welcome to hunt there as long as they buy a hunting license.
The PGC did us a big favor about 6 years ago and opened a new road - which was always there, but was not open for travel. They built a parking lot in a mud hole and put a gate across the road, not more then 1/2 a mile away from where I hunted from the very first time I hunted deer when I was 13 years old - some 33 years ago, when we had to walk several miles back in to get to our stands.
So asking someone if I can have permission to drive up his hill in the middle of winter so I can walk 1/2 a mile back into the woods to hunt deer isn't something I need to stick my head out to do anymore - because I can drive up the road anytime I want to as long as the gate into the game lands is not locked.
The road going back in is fairly flat and level and is a nice scenic drive.
So my advice to you is not to have any partners. If you can afford to buy land - buy it. If you have land in New York - enough to buy a resident hunting license and have good deer and turkey hunting up there - don't sell it. It won't be very long and everybody is either going to have to own a piece of land or hunt the game lands with all the posted signs in my area of the country.
Anyone have The Notes Of Cliff on this?
10-06-2010, 09:15 AM
#10
Fork Horn
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: IOWA
Posts: 400