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Kansas Transferable Tags

Old 08-15-2003, 11:08 AM
  #21  
Spike
 
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Default RE: Kansas Transferable Tags

Dana,
Where exactly in Kansas are you and what section do you hunt?

Noleball
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Old 08-15-2003, 01:00 PM
  #22  
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Default RE: Kansas Transferable Tags

I hunt in the NW either Unit 1,2 or 17. As for the issues going on with the transferrable tag there is a statement form the NRA president Kayne Robinson posted in the huntingpolitics.com section of huntingnet.com, please check it out. From the ignorant appointments to the commission to the rules and regs, restrictions, fees, etc. This guy hit the nail on the head.
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Old 08-15-2003, 02:17 PM
  #23  
 
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Default RE: Kansas Transferable Tags

I guess I' m different on the subject than most as I actually support the " sold to the highest bidder" theory and am glad that the power is returned to the landowner vs some govt entity whose excuse for a lottery is in the name of " fairness" . IMO BIG bucks like those in the best regions in KS are simply comoditees to be bought and sold no differently than the crops/livestock that any landowner owns as well. It is comforting that to know that at least I have the option of paying more money for a better chance at a tag than relying on random luck.
I am friends with a man who lives here in TN who has a very large lease in Potawatomie county and enjoyed a hunt there season before last (actually was told the other day that he now owns that land) and the land contains 200" + bucks. He really enjoys carrying friends and clients to his place in KS for the hunt of a lifetime. In the past obtaining tags for everyone was tougher because while his place is very large (12k acres) the tag system was for the " general population" of hunters in that area. I say what good is that system when those hunters arent allowed on his property, yet they were issued tags for that area? If I am understanding the new system correctly, it will put more control into his hands (and anyother landowner) and give him/them more tags for use on their given area of land. They feed, provide environment and protection for these animals, why shouldnt they reap the benefits of the decision of who and when they are taken? Its certainly not a money issue in my friends case, but having grown up in the agricultural world I can say that EVERY single penny helps most farmers/ranchers and I cant blame them for wanting to get in on the " cashcow" that trophy deer hunting has become.

Someone said that they hoped that KS wouldnt become another TX or IL. Monetary issues aside, what is wrong with that? A serious big game nonhunting farmer (of which the majority are) has little benefit from a herd of animals that deplete his crops and therefore he is less inclined to protect that " resource" . Now turn the tables and make that same " resource" a revenue producer for him and see how his thinking and dedictation to that resource changes!!!

I guess I am just partial to a system like this because I look at similar programs used by game departments out west. Especially the landowner permits for elk in the Gila/Apache area of NM. I muzzleloaded out there in 98 and was fortunate enough to take a 367" 6x6 on public land. That policy combined with other restrictive regulations is what makes that area the best trophy elk producer in t he world outside of AZ. Were the rules more open like in CO, it would be just another herd of elk.

I' m not trying to step on toes here, but IMO you guys in KS are simply spoiled and longing for the return of the " NO NR" days of yore and that just isnt gonna happen. You guys are in a PERFECT setting with one of the finest whitetail herds and environments in the world. Take care of that gift and put its needs ahead of your own personal desires and wants. If there is any downside to the new regulations from what I gather, it is that the reduction (or more specifically balance keeping) of antlerless deer IS being hampered. You dont want to turn the state into another MS or AL and have 10-20+ to 1 doe-buck ratios. That will be a crime in history. But as cyclical as a state like KS is (weatherwise and winter surviability wise) the need for doe removal varies by year. But yeah I agree, some policy must be adopted to keep that aspect of mgmt in check or its ALL for naught!!!

Good luck this fall to all that are fortunate enough to get to chase deer in KS!
RA
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Old 08-15-2003, 03:20 PM
  #24  
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Default RE: Kansas Transferable Tags

Actually Red you are wrong on almost all accounts.

The T-tag was to offset " damages" and to stimulate and add revenue to the agricultural economy. These agricultural " damages" are no more that the " wastage" that occurs in row-cropping. As for the damage argument, you don' t know the political standing. As I reported before the KLA and KFB and KRA were the big supporters of the T-tag. ALL research on deer influenced agricultural damage shows that this is not an issue within LIVESTOCK production. They are the main political force in this State on this issue and others.

The Lottery issue. Wrong again. 50% of NR pool goes to the t-tag. By offering to a small portion of " wealthy hunters" this limited supply of tags, the majority of NR hunters are denied access. It goes to the highest bidder, not the average joe hunter. That is an issue with the NRA if you are inclined go to the thread on Huntingpolotics.com. The President of the NRA disagrees with your stance. KSU has done research on the market of the t-tag, the wealthy hunter is the norm on t-tags.

T-tags are NOT tied to the ground. They are good throughout the State (archery) and Unit (Rifle), Muzzleloader can get any buck. Next year it is limited to the surrounding COUNTY. This is the issue, the T-Tags have to be tied to the ground, period.

The landowner needs no t-tag to control on his property or for economic gains, he can still lease his property, IF it has deer on it, most does not. By the same token, if the deer are going to be used at the landowners responsibilty and desires, then he can take the responsibility of said deer damage, automobile insurance, damage, and adjacent crop damage.

Most of these landowners are getting Federal Subsidies. These subsidies are prorated for damage, shrinkage, BMP, and NPCPP. They simply are not using the dollars for the intended processes. Why on earth do we need to subsudize every issue for landowners and ag producers, especially the Livestock producers, whose deer damage is minimal, and land use allows them to lease large tracts of land, why do they need to be able to have tags to sell additionally.

The " General Population" and their will created this herd, and is owned by the State by law, and is a " shared resource" . This is like transferring mining leases to the highest bidder on poor or mined out land, and allowing the lease (T-tag) to apply to producing lands that the owner has no say or ownership or management on. AFA the system limiting hunters on a landowners property, that is up to the landowner not the State, he is gonna to have to let in hunters, either by lease or free. Otherwise the resulting damage from an increasing population will increase his " deer damage" .

I would question about how many 200" + bucks are on 12,000 ac. There is not that many, and a hell of a lot of other deer, this will contribute to out of control population growth. The management for short term economic gain shifted from the KDWP to the landowneres will result in the State taking heat on poor management practices. To produce big bucks, you need a considerable population base. The practice of leasing and t-tags will result in a staggering increase in does, not the other way around.

The landowner has the ability to rent or leas his property that is all that is needed. The T-tag is a terrible idea. As for the NR hunters, come on in and enjoy the State of Kansas deer hunting, but within the same statutes and laws that other States use to control hunting. The resident hunter is taken care of first, because they are here and pay taxes year round. And last I checked the largest population of hunters in this state were resident firearms hunters. Again go read the NRA President' s statement on the issue. The vulnerable hunter and Kansas hunting is linked at fundamental levels.

Randy is going to have an appaplectic (sp) fit when he reads your response. I don' t blame him a bit and support him.
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Old 08-15-2003, 08:33 PM
  #25  
 
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Default RE: Kansas Transferable Tags

some govt entity whose excuse for a lottery is in the name of " fairness" .
For your information the reason we have the herd we have is because of the lottery. For years even residents had to go through one.

BIG bucks like those in the best regions in KS are simply comoditees to be bought and sold no differently than the crops/livestock that any landowner owns as well
Check the game laws of the state, they clearly state that the game belongs to the state. Now refer to your first statement, that state owns the deer so they determine who gets to kill them not the landowners.

[quoteIt is comforting that to know that at least I have the option of paying more money for a better chance at a tag than relying on random luck.
][/quote]

First explain why the fact that you have money gives you more rights than any other nonresident. You' re not paying more for a better chance at a tag, you are buying the tag. What' s comforting to you is having the money to buy it.

You guys are in a PERFECT setting with one of the finest whitetail herds and environments in the world. Take care of that gift and put its needs ahead of your own personal desires and wants.
In case you don' t know we residents sacrificed for a lot of years to make deer hunting what it is here and very few of our children will get to enjoy it. Now why in the hell should we
Take care of that gift and put its needs ahead of your own personal desires and wants
if we don' t even get to hunt. What you' re asking is for my tax dollars to provide a resource that I can' t even enjoy. That' s fairness for you.


Travis
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Old 08-17-2003, 08:58 AM
  #26  
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Default RE: Kansas Transferable Tags

Yip, for who has the most money gets to hunt. Like I can get real excited about that![X(] Is that how you look at it Red Allsion, since you have money, you shouldn' t have to wait in line for your chance at a tag?
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Old 08-18-2003, 01:53 PM
  #27  
 
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Default RE: Kansas Transferable Tags

No seizure here Dana, am used to NR professionals that think they have all the answers and solutions to Kansas deer hunting woes. Funny thing is, they all have the same type of response. They resort to name calling(spoiled, greedy, anti-NR etc), then they tell us what we need to do to improve things(of course it always provides more liberal tag issuance to NR hunters). Then they talk about the poor starving landowners needing to be able to turn the wildlife resource into a cash crop for the property(above the income received from leasing incomes, subsidies, crop damage insurance pay offs, etc). They always mention the poor guy who purchases land here and finds out that he didn' t get more access to tags by buying his way around the rules([])so he can help his buddies around a system that built the herd. They always inform us how big the population is when in fact it is by far much smaller in numbers than what they have at home. These kind of people are exactly how t-tags got pushed thru in the first place.
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Old 08-19-2003, 07:47 AM
  #28  
 
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Default RE: Kansas Transferable Tags

Red, the drawing for tags is about managing the number of deer harvested, it is not a fairness issue. Resident hunters(rifle) are still required to apply and go through a lottery as well. It wasnt that many years ago, that even resident hunters were denied a tag. By the way, landowners do not own the wildlife resource, it belongs to all Kansas residents. The deer damage claims are BS. (I grew up on a farm and my family still farms)Most farmers toss more grain out the back of their combines when harvesting than what deer consume. What damage there is is typically along tree lines and field edges where crops rarely thrive. Coons and turkey do far more damage to crops than deer, but they cannot get $2-$5000 a hunt from folks to come hunt them so you never hear about that damage. You feel better because you can buy your way around the rules? How fair is that to the average Joe hunter? You friend with 12000 acres in Pt. Co. wasnt there through the reintroduction of deer into Kansas when resident hunters paid for the project. KDWP' s main objective is to maintain the wildlife resource for Kansas residents, they are here year round paying the bills. " Take care of that gift and put it' s needs ahead of your own personal desires and wants" . We are fighting to retain the resource. I fail to see how turning the resource over to you and your personal desire and wants is going to make things better.
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Old 08-21-2003, 04:05 AM
  #29  
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Default RE: Kansas Transferable Tags

Travis, you are absolutely right. I probably won' t ever get to hunt in your great state, but I sincerely hope that you resident hunters get together and start lobbying to get this thing changed. Even if it takes a couple of years, if ya' ll get a big enough group together and raise a big enough stink, you can get things changed. Good luck.
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Old 08-22-2003, 01:21 PM
  #30  
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Default RE: Kansas Transferable Tags

Any news from the Public meeting in Liberal. I was wanting to go, but the car shot craps. If anyone has any info please post.
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