HuntingNet.com Forums

HuntingNet.com Forums (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/)
-   Whitetail Deer Hunting (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/whitetail-deer-hunting-4/)
-   -   WI hunter's.......really (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/whitetail-deer-hunting/312568-wi-hunters-really.html)

stabnslab_WI 12-15-2009 11:37 AM

WI hunter's.......really
 
Why is everyone blamming the DNR for the deer herd in WI. I blame trigger happy hunters that shoot anything because they don't think they are going to see a deer. Hey here is some advise. Instead of coming up a week before deer season to ride your 4 wheeler in the woods, chase everything out, build a cabin for a stand. Try building a stand in the spring time, leave the 4 wheeler with your truck and don't stay in the bars for ten hours. You have to give a little to gain a lot. I think the Herd is good. I seen as many deer this year as I did five years ago. I was seeing groups of 15 come into the fields at a time. For us its almost time to start shooting does to get the ratio back to normal but we know our winters will take care of that. Here is some more advise, don't shoot the first thing you see, eat a tag once in a while. The DNR doesn't control the herd we do.

gunther89 12-15-2009 12:00 PM

Im glad to know that your area as alot of deer running around. The majority of Wisconsin isn't seeing deer and I hunt in the CWD area where there are "tons" of deer and our area is doing horrible. In the CWD area you have to shoot a doe to get a buck tag and this year was the worst for me seeing does as I saw twice as many bucks then I did does. This comes from hunting over 400 acres of very good crop land and we had 5 trail cameras out and our cameras showed the same thing more bucks then does. I did manage to get a big buck but otherwise our neighbors saw more bucks then does. One of our neighbors got 3 bucks and a fawn opening day. The DNR is ruining the herd, they are forcing us to shoot does so we can get a buck tag.

stabnslab_WI 12-15-2009 12:16 PM

True, but there is nothing wrong with eating a tag. I guess Im fortunate to have a good neighbor with a lot of land, we have 340 acres and Im guessing he has 1200+. That CWD Zone is a croc if you ask me. Im a half hour North of Portage and things are fine here. I remember a long time ago in that CWD area people would see 100+ deer a day for rifle season. To a hunter that was the place to grow Monster deer It basically comes down to Insurance compaines are getting sick of car/deer accidents. Good news is that one dumb*** DNR got fired

outdoorsman4life_103 12-15-2009 12:30 PM

there is absoluetly a decline in our population. 100% agree the DNR messed up. with the wolves and everything else moving in and not helping them. Yeah, of course you are going to see as many deer as usualy when you have more than 1000 acres controlled. thats more than a square mile! not all of us have basically our own private farm. we have 80 and lease the 80 across the street. its not much, but it gets us a deer every so often. the deer population has plummeted by us. no doubt. when we go and register our buck at noon on saturday and we are the third person to register a deer and when you stop in on sunday night to see how many they registered and the lady says 97. when they usually registered 500. there is something seriously wrong.

DeerandbearhoG 12-15-2009 12:39 PM


Originally Posted by stabnslab_WI (Post 3530558)
True, but there is nothing wrong with eating a tag.

why should someone eat a tag if there willing to put their tag on a deer they CAN kill? just because you think you will see more big bucks if others pass on deer they want to kill, isnt a good enough reason to tell others what to shoot. BTW isnt WI the #1 state for entries in the B&C record book? I find it kinda hard to believe there are not many big bucks where you live. maybe you, like many hunters today expect them to be behind every tree, not gonna happen anywhere, no matter how many small bucks others pass on.


I also find it silly to call other hunters "trigger happy"

JW 12-15-2009 01:05 PM

Don't blame the DNR and then you are glad one got fired! Which is it?

First time in 15 yrs I did not see a deer - Not even one! Wow!

I Don't give a rip if I shoot one but it is nice to see deer. The over all deer sign was way down. Down to an all time low.

Even the deer drives where fruitless..........just no deer.

So basicaly after 34 some years of deer hunting - I might be done and know of others who will not hunt!

Then what?

Well one thing less money due to loss license sales for the DNR. And lost license revenue means loss of revenue from the Feds as each license the WI DNR can sell the state does get Pittman/Robertson Act money. Which means no funding and less programs to help the deer herd - to which we all loose and including you.

And I took offense at the way you tagged the majority of WI hunters!

JW?

Soilman 12-15-2009 04:02 PM

I guess an extra 29% of WI hunters must have built stands this fall, drank 10 hrs in the bar, and drove their ATV's all over their hunting areas.

wis_rifle_hunter 12-15-2009 04:39 PM

its the dnr's fault. they said theres millions of deer in wisconsin. so hunters think they should be able to get a deer. when the season comes along no one sees anything. the dnr only look at 200 acres worth of woods and they count how many deer they seen so they divide the number of acres and the number of deer. so they think there so many deer in every acre in wisconsin. they need to actually get off there A$$ and walk around in more than one patch of woods. thats just my thinking

bandgod 12-16-2009 05:14 AM

To an extent I agree with stabnslab in that it is our responsibility as a deer hunter to control what we shoot. The DNR did overestimate the deer herd but did tell us before the season that numbers would be down. Why are the numbers down?? Because people tend to shoot until all of their tags are filled. The last several years we could shoot basically an unlimited amount of antlerless deer. Did people ever question what would happen if we started to shoot so many deer. Not many did, especially on public land or small acreage owners. This is a very hot debate here. People like to say that private land owners with thousands of acres can control their herd and that is true, but if you work with your neighbors and limit yourself on how many deer you do shoot you can effectively begin to control your deer herd even if it's on a small piece of property. I own five acres and I had upwards of fifteen deer living in my five acres almost all season (all bald) I shot one of the does late in the season but left the rest alone so that after they spread out next spring we have plenty of deer for everyone. My neighbors are very selective with how many deer they shoot as well. It's a group effort!

cwanty03 12-16-2009 07:21 AM

stabnslab. agree and disagree.
I agree with you in the amount of people who go in the week before season and make lanes, build a stand, and what not. As a freak about scent and what not this is just about the worst thing i think people can do....
Exactly....your neighbor shot 3 bucks....??
I disagree with the fact that the pop. is fine...it sounds like your in a primo spot....i have in a fairly similar situation too...but we are a small % of WI hunters....
What it comes down to is proper management and this can be different on all land tracts

gunther89 12-16-2009 07:58 AM

cwnaty03: Yes one of our neighbors shot 3 bucks on opening day. They had 2 buck tags that carried over from last year and then shot a fawn and then shot another buck. They said they wanted to shoot another doe so they would have a buck tag for next year but said they didn't see a doe all day.

Handles 12-17-2009 06:33 AM

The DNR does not control who pulls the trigger, or how many times it happens. If you feel that the population where you are at is down, the simple solution is to not shoot.
It IS that simple.
The DNR can only estimate, and they must do so on a huge scale. As hunters, and landowners, you should have a better idea of what and how many is out there. Take care of your own herd control.

Big Buck Dave 12-17-2009 06:59 AM

If there is a shortage in a particular county then they should adjust the earn a buck program. Sounds to me like everyone is feeding them trying to grow big bucks and that's how the desease is spread. You have to harvest does that's the majority of the heard. If you want BIG bucks you need to hunt near agriculture. The vast expanse of land will grow big bucks too, but they are smart, have good noses, and the does protect them, so by harvesting does you actually increase your chance at bagging the big one...

warbirdlover 12-17-2009 08:01 AM

The herd is down and here's why I feel it is.

In the town near where I hunt, there is normally 3 rows of cars with trailers loaded with deer (usually bucks). This is year after year. This year there might have been one or two cars there when we stopped.

The local grocery store that processes the deer normally has an hour long wait of cars lined up. The parking lot is full. This year there was no one every time we stopped. The guys they hire to do the deer were standing around waiting for someone to show up.

The DNR should base their deer population estimates on this, not their goofy formula. And they already have proposed an extended season next year before the deer kill numbers were even in!!!

Special hunts, earn-a-buck and all these other DNR bull**** programs have decimated the Wisconsin deer herd.

And what is there excuse? Foggy conditions and poor hunting practices. I don't think so..... :bash:

Handles 12-17-2009 08:42 AM

The herd is down and here's why I feel it is.


Originally Posted by warbirdlover (Post 3532134)
In the town near where I hunt, there is normally 3 rows of cars with trailers loaded with deer (usually bucks).

So the DNR has forced these hunters to shoot all of these deer?

You said that this has happend year after year. And that the DNR should base their quota numbers off this? Using your formula, then because this town was full of dead deer year after year, the DNR would think the herd is at the very least stable, and the same # of deer should be shot the next year.

Here's something else to think about people. The DNR does not control if you fill your tag or WHERE you fill your tag. Anyone can go and hunt in any zone any year. If I'm not mistaken, the woods of the NW saw a large increase in the # of hunters about 10 years ago. Let's say 15K more hunters decided to hunt there, if half get a deer, that's 7,500 deer harvested there EACH year for 10 years. Hello.
If you really want the DNR to start controlling your hunting, and the herd, then start advocating for a application/draw like for turkey. I don't want to see that happen at all, but if you can't lay off the trigger when you think numbers on your farm or zone are down, then it's your own fault.

IL-Cornfed 12-17-2009 09:18 AM

Despite obviously extreme hunting pressure and poor hunting pratices by some.... I think the problem in WI is just a little more complex that your complaint! LOL! I dn't see them making you the new spokeperson for the WI DNR anytime soon! LOL!

All kidding aside though, nearly all the midwestern states turned in the lowest deer harvests in a decade. I know MO and IL both did...... perhaps we could blame to WI DNR for our problems to! LOL!

warbirdlover 12-17-2009 09:32 AM

All the landowners bordering the land we lease and ourselves do not shoot does. We also have minimum standards for bucks. The size of the bucks on the land we hunt is getting much better. It's the lower number of does that concern us. The wolves that the DNR loves have taken their toll. My point is that we shouldn't be having these special seasons, earn-a-buck, extended seasons etc etc when they have introduced another predator on to the scene. And the coyote population has grown. The neighboring farmers see coyotes carrying fawns in the spring. It all adds up. We shot six coyotes off the land last year. How many more are there that we didn't see.

We killed three bucks on the land this year. Three to four is about the norm. I passed up on a small 6-point to let him grow up. It's the lack of does that concerns us as the fewer doe the bucks can breed the fewer bucks in the future.

Thank God I don't have to hunt public land anymore.

salukipv1 12-17-2009 11:07 AM

Wasn't the plan to get rid of the deer in the CWD areas, then let healthy deer repopulate them again?

I'm in IL but curious what's the plan in WI?

If the plan was to drastically reduce numbers of deer in CWD areas, then why are guys suprised at the lack of deer?

basserman 12-17-2009 11:24 AM

I also hunt in an area that we carefully and selectively hunt. My land and the neighbors all hunt selectively. I am a FEDERAL wildlife tech (not state) and have a good knowledge on treating our wildlife in our select area. The fact is..... deer numbers are down. The 2008 season was down near 70% FROM 07 AND THIS YEARS IS DOWN ANOTHER 30% FROM 08. To be frank and to the point? It is the DNR's fault that the numbers are way down with some blame on some hunters that over harvest their area. It's time we put wildlife management back into the hands of wildlife people and not a governor appointed lawyer. I have watched our deer herd go thru many ups and downs in my 45 years of deer hunting and these past few years are the worse I have ever seen.

basserman 12-17-2009 11:30 AM


Originally Posted by salukipv1 (Post 3532312)
Wasn't the plan to get rid of the deer in the CWD areas, then let healthy deer repopulate them again?

I'm in IL but curious what's the plan in WI?

If the plan was to drastically reduce numbers of deer in CWD areas, then why are guys suprised at the lack of deer?


Only a part of Wisc. is considered a CWD unit. Mine is not. Numbers are way down in nearly the whole state.

magicman54494 12-17-2009 06:14 PM


Originally Posted by stabnslab_WI (Post 3530531)
Why is everyone blamming the DNR for the deer herd in WI. I blame trigger happy hunters that shoot anything because they don't think they are going to see a deer.

The WDNR is FORCING people to shoot does in EAB areas. The WDNR is WARNING people that their hunting area could become EAB if they don't shoot does (have you seen the map that the WDNR put out showing all the areas that are on the verge of becoming EAB) The WDNR is overestimating the herd size falsely reasurring the hunters that killing the deer will not have an adverse affect on the herd. Then there is the human factor where hunters DO want to shoot deer and if you give them a tag they will likely use it if given an oppertunity (afterall it's justifiable because the WDNR says our herd is still over goal). Then there's the usuall excuses used every year why the kill was down and the deer are really there. Ex.: Too foggy, too wet, too warm, crops still standing. These type of excuses have been used to justify their herd estimates for many years. AKA covering their behinds.



Originally Posted by stabnslab_WI (Post 3530531)
Hey here is some advise. Instead of coming up a week before deer season to ride your 4 wheeler in the woods, chase everything out, build a cabin for a stand. Try building a stand in the spring time, leave the 4 wheeler with your truck and don't stay in the bars for ten hours. You have to give a little to gain a lot.

I've though of a lot of ways to address these statements and have decided to simply say I hope you don't think that all the other hunters are a bunch of drunken slob hunters.


Originally Posted by stabnslab_WI (Post 3530531)
I think the Herd is good. I seen as many deer this year as I did five years ago. I was seeing groups of 15 come into the fields at a time. For us its almost time to start shooting does to get the ratio back to normal but we know our winters will take care of that.

I'm wondering what your knowledge of the herd is in any other place in the state besides your private piece. Are you saying that you think things are great everywhere or on your private piece? I believe your views are based on deer sitings on a small managed piece of private property. I believe the rest of your claims are based on little more then speculation.


Originally Posted by stabnslab_WI (Post 3530531)
Here is some more advise, don't shoot the first thing you see, eat a tag once in a while. The DNR doesn't control the herd we do.

I'm wondering why you believe we should have to eat tags. I believe that proper management would allow for anyone who is serious to have the opertunity to put some meat in their freezer. Oh, and by the way, it's easy to sit on your high horse and preach about letting deer walk when " I seen as many deer this year as I did five years ago. I was seeing groups of 15 come into the fields at a time." It would be interesting to see what you would be writing if you didn't see 15 deer in 2 seasons. I do agree with you that hunters need to take on more responsiblity for managing the herd. I wish the WDNR would take some steps to educate hunters on deer management. Before they do that they have to figure out how to do it themselves.

WIbuckchaser 12-17-2009 07:21 PM

The problem I see here is the fact that some people want to see 15 deer everyday and some people are happy if they see 15 deer in a season. Some people just like to watch the does and are waiting for a big buck, and some people love to eat venison and they couldn't care less if the other guy just likes to watch them. YOU CAN'T KEEP EVERYBODY HAPPY.
In the area I hunt I haven't heard of any wolves yet and I usually see deer when I go. This year I hunted both public and private and seen deer in both places during the rifle season. I think for the most part I was just lucky this year. In the right place at the right time.
I just feel that if the dnr keeps handing out tags, people are going to keep filling them. I thought we were suppose to believe in the dnr, but after reading about everyone not seeing anything I am having second thoughts now, Next year I will probably have a crappy season. Time will tell.
Stabnslab, I was just wondering how many does can one shoot before he is called "trigger happy"?

fastetti 12-17-2009 07:55 PM

I think Stabnslab has to realize he is one of the lucky ones who has enough land (and his neighbor) to really control there deer herd. For most people though, 80 acres would be a good lot of land. The problem I think is a lot of people hunt where there are many 40 to 100 acres lots of land all around each other with no really big chunks of land that act as a sanctuary. I deal with this at a spot in Michigan where I hunt. There are endless amounts of small tracts of land. Even if you get 5 guys together to not shoot small bucks, it seems you always have one guy that shoots alot of small bucks and as many doe tags as they can fill. Hunters can't help what his neighbor is doing as long as he does it legal. If the DNR lets him shoot 30 does in a season, then he will, even if his neighbors don't want him too. One bad apple ruins for the rest.

FYI stabnslab, great avitar.

carl1191 12-17-2009 08:02 PM

I hear a lot of complaining from people about not seeing deer and how the DNR is trying to ruin hunting in Wisconsin, but that is a bunch of bull. I know a lot of people who work for the Department and they are some of the most dedicated outdoors men and women in the state. Some of you are gonna disagree with me, but thats your opinion. These people care about the resources of this state and would do anything to protect them. I think that hunters in this state have been spoiled by higher than sustainable deer populations and have a skewed expectation of what hunting is and should be. For those who say there are no deer left just aren't looking hard enough. I exclusively hunt public land and have no problem finding deer, but I do my homework before hand. For those who disagree, take a walk around your hunting property now and look at all the tracks in the snow then let me know what you see.

wis_bow_huntr 12-18-2009 05:22 AM

if the DNR would quit with all the doe shooting wed be in good shape. this is the first year in 49 years that a buck hasnt been shot off our 300 acre farm in all the years. Theres something wrong with this picture. Only 2 deer shot off 300 acres during gun season and one buck during bow season. You cant tell me theres nothing wrong with the way the DNR has managed the herd over the last 5-8 years. Our deer herd will never be the same. To get back to a healthy size we need to stop shooting does and bambis. I would rather see an antler restriction for the next 5 years than to hear and see people shooting next years deer. You keep shooting does we WILL NOT have any deer left. I dont want to hear the hawgwash from people saying if you dont want does shot, then dont shoot them. When thats all some people see and they need meat for their families they are going to shoot anything brown. We need to get rid of the doe hunts, not the does. The WDNR has taken us for a ride and RUINED hunting in Wi for a very very very long time...

warbirdlover 12-18-2009 05:36 AM

Here's what I believe based on talking to other hunters (family, friends etc) and just seeing.

The northern deer herd is decimated. Period. No one I know of that hunted in the northern section got or even saw deer.

The central deer herd is better but the doe population is down from normal.

The southern (CWD) section I'm not familiar with but obviously getting rid of the CWD is a major priority with the DNR and rightfully so. (Did I say that?)....

The DNR put out a "proposal" for an extended rifle season next year on their website... BEFORE the deer harvest numbers were even in for this year and the reason was "instead" of the earn-a-buck. My BIL (retired) worked for the DNR his whole life and obviously backs up everything they say. I know how dedicated most of these guys are. But there has to be some real crack-pot managers upstairs. Come to think of it this would be normal for most businesses in this country... :biggrin:

carl1191 12-18-2009 08:02 PM

WIS BOW HUNTR, if you think that hunting in Wisconsin has been ruined for a very very long time, you must know very little about deer biology. Deer populations have been show to almost double in as little as a single year. We are not going to run out of deer in this state, because the number of tags are limited by unit. And exactly what is a healthy deer herd to you. What you and a lot of other hunters tend to turn a blind eye towards is the implications that a higher than sustainable deer herd can have on the available habitat. It's your right to question the management practices of the state, but deer have to be managed in accordance with available habitat and not just for your shooting pleasure. And if your having trouble shooting deer on your property, change things up a little and put on a deer drive or do some scouting to see what the deer are doing or where the hot food source is. Deer change their patterns from year to year, and it's part of the fun of hunting to figure out how they are using their habitat. If you judge the success of your season on the number of deer you can hang on the pole alone, then you have lost sight of what hunting is about. It's about being outdoors and enjoying nature and family and friends and if your lucky bagging a deer or two.

stabnslab_WI 12-22-2009 08:14 AM

Magic 'DA MAN good and bad input. No I don't sit on a high horse because I don't kill a booner every year. Ten years ago shooting spikes was thought to be good in Herd management (but that's not true). We took seven spikes off the property in three years between 2001-2004 because we wanted good genes in the herd and shot a lot of doe's. We then started having a lot of big bucks with broken tines and missing main beams because the rut became intense and were fighting for the does. Went for years of not seeing a lot of doe's because we took to many to fast We decided not to shoot any does for a couple of years and the herd came back fast, really fast. Even when we were in EAB for years, I went to the local golf course and shot doe's to get my buck sticker. If you ever have the chance to hunt a golf course I highly suggest it. Ton's and ton's of deer. They actually want you there because the deer tear up the greens and sand traps. Im just saying I can't blame the DNR on this, its how people manage and hunt.

diamondjustice 12-22-2009 12:03 PM

thats it there is a part where i live where nothing goes back there but the farm equpment and there is 20 to 30 deer in the field per night at a minum

Handles 12-23-2009 06:17 AM

Deer licenses sold in WI fall 2009:638,040 gun licenses and 204,833 bow licenses.
Almost 850,000 licenses. And people wonder why the herd might be down? Maybe we have too many hunters. I know the NRA/SCI and many hunting shows are saying we don't have enough hunters. You must remember they are all trying to sell something, and don't forget it.
I've said it again and again, you DON'T HAVE TO SHOOT. If you are in an area that you think has low deer numbers then don't shoot, heck don't even buy a license. Get all the guys in your group to do the same for one year. Pitch your license money together and buy a few trail cams so that you can moniter your deer a little better (the camera will last several years, so it is an investment, an unused tag is just a waste).
The DNR can not force you hunt or shoot anything. Just because it's legal to shoot 10 deer, doesn't mean that it is a good idea. Cigarettes are legal but that doesn't mean it is a good idea to smoke them.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:33 AM.


Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.