I'll probably start a war..............
11-26-2009, 12:35 PM
#41
Fork Horn
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Jackson, TN
Posts: 235
I love the 30-06. I know its big but it gives me some confidence so that I can hit him anywhere around the vitals and he is going to die. 270 all the way to 243 are fine also but not quite the put down power of and 06
11-27-2009, 09:20 PM
#43
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 6,921
JMO but you need a brake on your rifle, it's too much gun for you...plain and simple! Extra noise is not needed and it can increase the inability to shoot the rifle. Recoil pad sure but the most improtant factor is the rifle fits. If adding more cushion creates comfort problems then you need to see a gunsmith to correct LOP.
Some calibers &/or cartridges simply aren't range queens, you have to know your limits. Pushing past those limits is only going to cause bad habits. Handling recoil is more about techinque then physic. Before I get slammed for saying this let me explain from a personal stand point. I must be able to lay down groups on paper over a session that are useful without personal strain. Basically if I set aside an hour to shoot my xxx I must be able to shoot a 4-3 shot groups in that time without feeling the effects of recoil. When you think about this, allows 15 mins between groups. Factor in cooling time which I think is important in assessing accuracy and load potential it's not that crazy a notion. If your the type who needs to pop primers then take extra rifles to pass the time. 3 surgeries after years of injury due to sports has caused me a bummed shooting wing. It learned me on how to shoot properly and slow it down. Today I am a much better range shooter then I was in years past. I know everybody is different but I don't believe in FUD (fear uncertainity and doubt) either. JME but most who handle a 270win with ease will have no problems handling a 7mm rem mag or 06'. Just be honest with yourself...cause that's all that matters! The list is damn long for a 400 yard treestand gun, you need to be willing to put forth the effort to make it happen...cause without that effort it don't matter what you buy or use!
Good luck and good hunting!
Some calibers &/or cartridges simply aren't range queens, you have to know your limits. Pushing past those limits is only going to cause bad habits. Handling recoil is more about techinque then physic. Before I get slammed for saying this let me explain from a personal stand point. I must be able to lay down groups on paper over a session that are useful without personal strain. Basically if I set aside an hour to shoot my xxx I must be able to shoot a 4-3 shot groups in that time without feeling the effects of recoil. When you think about this, allows 15 mins between groups. Factor in cooling time which I think is important in assessing accuracy and load potential it's not that crazy a notion. If your the type who needs to pop primers then take extra rifles to pass the time. 3 surgeries after years of injury due to sports has caused me a bummed shooting wing. It learned me on how to shoot properly and slow it down. Today I am a much better range shooter then I was in years past. I know everybody is different but I don't believe in FUD (fear uncertainity and doubt) either. JME but most who handle a 270win with ease will have no problems handling a 7mm rem mag or 06'. Just be honest with yourself...cause that's all that matters! The list is damn long for a 400 yard treestand gun, you need to be willing to put forth the effort to make it happen...cause without that effort it don't matter what you buy or use!
Good luck and good hunting!
Last edited by skeeter 7MM; 11-27-2009 at 09:23 PM.
11-28-2009, 04:14 AM
#44
Fork Horn
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 186
i just bought a TC arms Venture in 3006 yesterday morning at Dicks sporting goods, went to the range and "OH my Lord" the groupings at 100 yds are touching, less than 3/4 of an inch with Federal ammo. i've owned dozens of guns in my life and have 3 Rem 700s and have never had a gun that shoots like this right out of the box!!
11-28-2009, 06:02 PM
#45
Typical Buck
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 585
Such a question really brings out the retards in all (most) of us.
Debating these two calibers is like debating why red is better than blue. It's just a matter of prefference. I like .30 cal so the .30-06 is my vote
Debating these two calibers is like debating why red is better than blue. It's just a matter of prefference. I like .30 cal so the .30-06 is my vote
11-29-2009, 01:38 PM
#47
Spike
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3
Yes, sir, read below from your prior post:
Busted? LOL! Maybe your meaning wasn't clear.
I can understand why you would say that mon frère, my Canadian hunting brother, BUT most people are not you. From what I see, the majority of magnum users at the range are not adept with their weapon, ie, lacking sufficient accuracy for the longer ranges the magnums are capable of. You have to keep the post in perspective too. Like I mentioned, the original poster did mention this will be his "treestand" gun... and I talked about that earlier. I was also under the wrong impression that he was a rookie and asking about magnum and larger calibers from the get-go are not the best of recommendations from my experience starting shooters off. I also realize if one is going to be doing a broadside shot in the boiler room, no matter the caliber size, no meat is going to be wasted, unless there's severe bullet fragmentation... then I've seen some crazy stuff.
Your last part of that quote "...as long as he can shoot it!"
Like I've said for the third time here, many people don't shoot magnums well. Might as well say the obvious... it's because of the louder sound and recoil. It's hard to bare down on a spot at the bench over and over without starting to get some sort of recoil complex... hence the term "flinch", etc. Many people don't have muzzle brakes on their magnums either. They should. Anything they can do to tame the recoil down so they don't develop some sort of shooting complex, is a huge plus. Also, because too many men have egos, not many are going to step up and say their magnum rifle is too much for them. Of course all the magnum rifle shooters here can shoot the wings off a fly at a hundred yards. LOL!
**** NO! (heck)
At many of my posts I've revealed being at the ranges experiencing not only my shooting, but LACK of shooting skill from others. I've seen TOO MANY times where guys with magnum calibers shouldn't be shooting deer with their gun! They can barely hit a small plate at a 100 yards! I myself just the other day was hitting shiny paper staples in the backstop at 100 yards with my .22 magnum. If you add the shooter's already lack of skill with their magnum along with the pucker factor they're experiencing because of the excitement adrenaline rush of the deer in front of them, this is a recipe for a miss or even worse, a wound. Don't forget to add the complex of the recoil that is in the back of their mind too. Also, I should qualify the marine seal's shooting credentials by saying if anyone here wants a money match with him, his answer is always the same... "I'll take that bet." When he was competing, he fired literally thousands of rounds practicing his craft, so he does know how to shoot a little. I will also add the last time we shot together, my groups were tighter than his. He and his -06 and me with my .260.(factory loads, slight wind, 100 yards sighting for deer) The nature of his experience has nothing to do with the bruising he had on his shoulder. The point is... he fired 12 rounds with his 30-06 and that evening had a horrendous black and blue spot because of shooting it! LOL! Not one single person here can tell me that recoil he will feel just prior to each shot is not in his mind! Especially after you start getting into more shots! The recoil force of a 30-06 with a 220gr. bullet has almost the identical recoil of a 300 Win Mag with 150gr. bullets. Not many people can bare down on 1" black dots at the range due to these larger recoil forces and be accurate enough to accomplish MOA groups. And if you're going to utilize a magnum rifle's long distance potential, like at 500yds+, then in my opinion, SUB MOA groups @ 100 yards are mandatory! I don't know many guys that can shoot sub-moa @ 100 with their magnum. Matter of fact, I don't group well out that far unless I use roll-your-owns because factory loads don't cut it. I get vertical variance with factory at long range.
So YES, I am not a big fan of the larger magnums because most people don't shoot their potential due to the recoil complexes and flinches that goes along with shooting them. It's not that they can't, it's that they don't. They don't because they don't use a good enough recoil pad, muzzle brake and they don't practice enough at the range. Get Billy-Bob a magnum, some Walmart shells and he's good to go.
iSnipe
Busted? LOL! Maybe your meaning wasn't clear.
I can understand why you would say that mon frère, my Canadian hunting brother, BUT most people are not you. From what I see, the majority of magnum users at the range are not adept with their weapon, ie, lacking sufficient accuracy for the longer ranges the magnums are capable of. You have to keep the post in perspective too. Like I mentioned, the original poster did mention this will be his "treestand" gun... and I talked about that earlier. I was also under the wrong impression that he was a rookie and asking about magnum and larger calibers from the get-go are not the best of recommendations from my experience starting shooters off. I also realize if one is going to be doing a broadside shot in the boiler room, no matter the caliber size, no meat is going to be wasted, unless there's severe bullet fragmentation... then I've seen some crazy stuff.
Your last part of that quote "...as long as he can shoot it!"
Like I've said for the third time here, many people don't shoot magnums well. Might as well say the obvious... it's because of the louder sound and recoil. It's hard to bare down on a spot at the bench over and over without starting to get some sort of recoil complex... hence the term "flinch", etc. Many people don't have muzzle brakes on their magnums either. They should. Anything they can do to tame the recoil down so they don't develop some sort of shooting complex, is a huge plus. Also, because too many men have egos, not many are going to step up and say their magnum rifle is too much for them. Of course all the magnum rifle shooters here can shoot the wings off a fly at a hundred yards. LOL!
**** NO! (heck)
At many of my posts I've revealed being at the ranges experiencing not only my shooting, but LACK of shooting skill from others. I've seen TOO MANY times where guys with magnum calibers shouldn't be shooting deer with their gun! They can barely hit a small plate at a 100 yards! I myself just the other day was hitting shiny paper staples in the backstop at 100 yards with my .22 magnum. If you add the shooter's already lack of skill with their magnum along with the pucker factor they're experiencing because of the excitement adrenaline rush of the deer in front of them, this is a recipe for a miss or even worse, a wound. Don't forget to add the complex of the recoil that is in the back of their mind too. Also, I should qualify the marine seal's shooting credentials by saying if anyone here wants a money match with him, his answer is always the same... "I'll take that bet." When he was competing, he fired literally thousands of rounds practicing his craft, so he does know how to shoot a little. I will also add the last time we shot together, my groups were tighter than his. He and his -06 and me with my .260.(factory loads, slight wind, 100 yards sighting for deer) The nature of his experience has nothing to do with the bruising he had on his shoulder. The point is... he fired 12 rounds with his 30-06 and that evening had a horrendous black and blue spot because of shooting it! LOL! Not one single person here can tell me that recoil he will feel just prior to each shot is not in his mind! Especially after you start getting into more shots! The recoil force of a 30-06 with a 220gr. bullet has almost the identical recoil of a 300 Win Mag with 150gr. bullets. Not many people can bare down on 1" black dots at the range due to these larger recoil forces and be accurate enough to accomplish MOA groups. And if you're going to utilize a magnum rifle's long distance potential, like at 500yds+, then in my opinion, SUB MOA groups @ 100 yards are mandatory! I don't know many guys that can shoot sub-moa @ 100 with their magnum. Matter of fact, I don't group well out that far unless I use roll-your-owns because factory loads don't cut it. I get vertical variance with factory at long range.
So YES, I am not a big fan of the larger magnums because most people don't shoot their potential due to the recoil complexes and flinches that goes along with shooting them. It's not that they can't, it's that they don't. They don't because they don't use a good enough recoil pad, muzzle brake and they don't practice enough at the range. Get Billy-Bob a magnum, some Walmart shells and he's good to go.
iSnipe
11-29-2009, 02:20 PM
#48
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,304
Not wanting to call out you or your buddy, but things dont seem right. I dont see how he got a black and blue shoulder after only 12 rounds threw the 06. Last saturday, I shot my -06 around 25 times, and my GFs dads 300 wm around 15 times, and had no marks at all, in fact it didnt even start to bother me. Only thing I can think of is 1) im a big guy 6' 2" 275lbs, or 2) ive been shooting since I was able to hold a gun, and ive found my perfect spot in my shoulder to put the stock. Either way 12 shots should not black and blue your shoulder.
It happened.
At 275lbs. you have a 100lbs. on him, but I don't think it matters.
I can tell by your signature line you're a fan of Brokeback Mountain. What? You lookin' for more fans?
Good luck with that.
iSnipe
Last edited by iSnipe; 11-30-2009 at 10:20 AM.
11-30-2009, 09:56 AM
#49
Spike
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Centerville, Tx
Posts: 45
Just keep in mind that the Marine Snipers aswell as other branches snipers carried a Remmington 700 .30-06 up to and including Vietnam. Carlos Hat**** swore by that very rifle you were asking about (Remmington 700 .30-06) As you well know they trained and routinely take shots well over the range you were asking about. My vote is for the 06 as you can tell between 150-180 gr boat tail soft point. Hornady Custom makes some excellent loads that would give you anything you could ask for. Practice is the key! Breathe, Aim, Squeeze!
