It's legal, it's within range, and that's about as close to "fair" as that buck will ever give you. When you enter the woods to kill a deer you're a predator, there's no such thing as "fair" to a predator. You'd starve in the wild. :nonono2:

As with everything else in life, personal standards are different for many people. Some hunters will shoot the first spike that wanders into their setup while others hold out for that rare dominant buck they know is lurking. The most important fact here is not the ease at which that buck could have been taken or the amount of freezer space that could have been filled. Uncle matt made his decision and shared the experience with all of us. What he expects from himself as a hunter is different than with some of the other posters. Success is measured not in the animal that is taken but with the experience. My hat is off to UM for his contribution to the thread and a memory that will stick with him forever. To the fellow hunters who just don't understand his rational, I say someday you might.

Man I dont have the woods to hunt nor the money like most of yall tards. Well some of yall. I live in the back woods but near the city and hunt my back woods everyday morning and night, If I saw that bas%@*$ Sitting down I dont give a crap where he was he's going down. And I dont think ANY of yall guys cant HONESTLY say if that 150 class+ Buck was layed down under your stand or 60 yrdsaways. you wouldnt shoot him? COME ON!!!?

I agree as long as the deer can employ its instincts, senses, etc. and the hunter is overcoming them with skill. I think in the situation outlined, the deer could.

The fairness thing is actually much greater than what we owe the deer. It's ultimately about what we owe the Creator. Through Providence, the deer exists with an amazing set of abilities that were ultimately from above. To respect those in the deer or whatever quarry we hunt is to respect the Creator responsible for them.

It is true, a typical predator knows nothing of fairness. However, we humans are the one predator that does know what fairness is. Fairness--or at least then call to it-- is in our very nature. A person who is fair is being what a person should be. Consequently, we have to be fair even to the deer and other things in nature according to their place.

Father Forkhorn,

Unfortunately with some, your words are going to fall on deaf ears. Like I said prior, if one needs to explain the merits of uncle matt's decision, by now at their age, they'll never know and have a different stance of what ethics is.

============================

You can't rationale an abstract arbitrary concept of "fair chase", ethics, standards and "sportsmanship" to some people regardless of how hard one tries. It's almost an innate ability to know what is right, what is fair without explanation and that is what sets some hunters apart from others.

iSnipe

Like has been said if he didn't have a huge set of antlers we wouldn't be talking about this. I think the decision to pass on him was right if that was what you felt then. To each their own. People hunt for a variety of reasons, if its legal then I can't say right or wrong. But I do feel the general hunting public is far too obsessed with antlers, antlers = $ in some instances and I think that is something that is horribly unethical. Antler greed is a very bad thing for hunting. I fear it will get to a point where the trophy greed will help the anti hunters outlaw the sport we love. Antlers and hunting trophys are great but its getting out of hand.

I cannot believe there are people opposing Matt's decision. Like someone said before, some people get it, some people don't i guess. Oh, and on the "i have to fill the freezer" argument...Don't buy a tag, sell your guns/bows and all of your equipment and see how many times over you can "fill your freezer" with hamburger. I promise you it's a helluva lot cheaper to fill your freezer in the grocery store than the back forty...

Ok.... I'm going to jump in here. I can certianly see all points. If you don't want to take a deer, no matter what the circumstances are, you don't need to take it. I respect Uncle Matt's decision. Would I have taken it? I'm not sure. I wasn't there.

I can see not wanting to shoot deer that are becoming "pets" around people. There's not much sport in it. But there's also not much "sport" in taking a white tail at 300 yards from a ground blind either. People do it every day without judgement. Yep.... it was a good shot, but that deer never had a fighting chance. To me, that's not sport. And yes.... if I am capable.... I'll take a 300 yard shot. Just don't tell me it was very sporting.

There is not much difference in this situation and a high fence operation either. People do that every day too. All a high fence op is....... is a bigger back yard with no where to run.

I'll tell you right now, I hunt on my own property, and I can see my back porch from all my blinds and tree stands. But I get down there, with bows and muzzle loaders, and I hunt. I'm certianly not ashamed of it. I don't sit back with a rifle and pick them off as they stroll by. I wouldn't shoot a deer in my front yard either. Because that's my preference. I certianly wouldn't judge anyone that did though, because that's their legal choice to do so.

It boils down to personal preference. Not ethics or sportsmanship. I know, that when I look up on the wall and see that trophy, I'm going to be proud of the effort I put in, the challenge, and hunt. I will never look at another mans trophy and downplay it because he took it with a 20 yard bow shot, on a oil field lease, at a deer that wasn't afraid of people.

To Uncle Matt....... Good job with hunting within your principles.

To all those who would have taken it...... Nice Buck!

THANK YOU NC BUCK SLAYER!!!!!!!!!!! :barmy:
People think that just because they see a deer and they have a weapon available they can go out and shoot it. Thats all well and fine if you are at a camp in the Adirondacks or need to put food on the table. But in this case, i would have done the same thing this guy did. Don't shoot him, he was bedded down, and only about 20 yards from the house, too. Good Ethics man. Good ethics. :hail::hail::hail::hail::hail:

As someone in ministry, I understand this is certainly the case with many. It isn't with all, though, and it's important to give it a shot. Also, some people just need reminded.

The one thing that we're all overlooking in this, though, is the public perception of us. Most people are not hunters, but most accept or tolerate hunting on some level. What will damage us severely is if we give off the impression that this is a killfest or a slaughter or that we're somehow entitled to game no matter the circumstances.

Discretion in how and when we choose to make the kill is vital to our future. Many people don't understand hunting, so we have to be utterly careful about being perceived as slobs, killers, or game hogs.

My first post on this forum and I just want to say, very nice post, Breezer. I don't know if I personally would have taken the shot, but I agree with what you just said. This is my 2nd season of hunting (well, when firearms season starts in VA in a couple of weeks), and I learned PRIMARILY so that I could put meat on the table in tough times (and believe me, they are COMING!). I wasn't sure if I would enjoy hunting or not, but I was pleased to find out at 30 years of age that I LOVE it and wish I had gotten into it a long time ago.

In reality, with all that typing, that is where your opinion is really reflected.

iSnipe

Sorry you feel that way. Because I was actually standing on your side, I just am not that judgemental of other people.

I'll break out the high horse next time so some of you guys can climb on board.

It's apparent you are already there. Good luck finding mates, captain.

iSnipe

DJP, I don't think its about hunting someone's own backyard, I think Uncle Matt just got a call that there was a big buck in his friends backyard and didn't find any enjoyment out of shooting a buck out of someones back door after just getting a call from a friend.

I live very close to downtown Chicago but have recently gotten a spot on one acre that is legal to hunt. It is a family friends backyard. They have about a 1/2 acre of woods that backs up to a creek then a massive tollway 40 ft wall. It is hunting, I can't see there house or any other and Im 20 feet in the air. I could sit on there back porch and shoot a deer, but I like the sport of it, so Im back in the woods trying to get a deer off a game trail. Im not seeing as much, but when I do get a deer there, it will be well worth it.

I woulda sliced an arrow through his @ss and hated every bite of sausage and everytime I saw him on the wall !

Hey...... If I don't get on my high horse every now and then.... I won't remember where it is when I really need it. :happy0157:

My point is what gives any one person the right to judge how another person hunts? Just because it's different doesn't mean eithr way is right or wrong. As long as it's legal then there's nothing anyone can do about it anyway, right? Heck I've seen pictures of deer on the Braggin Board that I would never even THINK about taking, but it's not my place to jump on the forum and tell them how they shouldn't take a deer like that.

I applaude Uncle Matt for not taking the deer. I don't think it's right to take a bedding deer that's not afraid of people. Kind of like pot shooting quail. (Which is illegal here)

Just my opinion though. If anyone think I'm wrong, or just plain dumb, for not bashing them over it.... then that's fine by me. It is just a forum after all.

There's absolutely no better way to practice shooting deer than by shooting deer.

IMO when opportunity knocks, by all means open the door. The best point I can make is that we all hunt for different reasons and we all shoot or don't shoot for different reasons. Me, I like to shoot deer, and then I eat them. It doesn't matter where they are as long as they're mature and legal.

The thing I applaud in this instance is that the OP stood up for his principles and his intrinsic ethics to make a decision. He may not see a buck that nice for the rest of the season, or maybe even the rest of his life, but he made a tough ethical decision and stuck with it.

I applaud you for standing behind your ethical standards. I'd like to say I would have done the same thing but I guess I'll never know until I'm in that situation.

LOL..It's just another freeking buck in rut. The thing about the dumb ones is they taste just like the smart ones....lol. So whether you choose to shoot or not to shoot is an individual's choice to make and in this case the buck lives another day. Nice pic by the way.

Nothing wrong with the high road. The beauty of it is that you are never sorry.

Great point Champlain Islander.

However, some that think they are on it, not so surprisingly... you can only see their hat.

iSnipe

You sir, are the one who seems to be missing the point. If you want the chase, the game and the hunt....carry a camera instead of a weapon. And no, I'm far from that poor. I just don't see the point in "chasing" and animal if I'm not going to use it for something better than the "thrill of the chase."

That, in a nutshell, is the point. Hunting is killing, plain and simple. It isn't a game and it isn't meant to be a thrill, it's for a purpose and that purpose is sustinance..not fun.

Now you've entered a total other area. I can understand this reason completely. But, state that from the beginning and it makes sense. I'm sure that you youself will have to agree that an empty house 100yds from no one is nothing more than a blind.

On the other hand, as Snipe has apparently refused to answer, would you have a problem stalking and shooting that same deer in woods if you saw it? Same situation, just not near a house...buck tending doe.

x2. As I've stated, people will say what they think the masses want to hear to avoid being crucified on a message board.

x2. I've also said the same thing. No one seems to mind blasting the hell out of a doe, but everyone seems to have all the "respect" in the world for a buck. My opinion..."If deer didn't have antlers, no one would care who shoots which one."

I hunt because its fun and I get a thrill out of it. There wouldnt be hunting shows on TV all day long if hunting wasnt fun and thrilling. Ive never seen anyone get all excited after taking a huge buck because of the damn meat.

I think the real question here is, Why am I having to long back in every 5 minutes? lol

I mostly just troll around here soaking up as much info from you guys as I can, thanks for all the great info. This post has brought up a question for me. What is the real difference between shooting the buck in the OP and shooting a deer with a high powered rifle at 300 yards? Not much of a hunt at 300 yards in my mind. Yah you are out in the woods and not near a house, but either way the deer has no chance.

Agree. I think 99% of the people on this site Hunt because it is fun and they get a thrill out of hunting.. Yes, they also get the meat and love it but it is a Thrill at the same time!

Yes sir, I feel the same way.

How many of those shows are dedicated to the act of hunting rather than killing a big deer with antlers? Uh....zero. Which goes to support the theories that "antlers" seem to be what the thrill is about rather than the hunt.

I would have shot him. People stalk deer all the time that are bedded with does or just bedded down. You just happen to know where this buck was.

I havent seen too many hunting shows that only show the "walk-up". They usually show them hunting the animal before they shoot it. And Ive seen plenty of shows that were just doe hunts.

I get the same thrill when I shoot a doe as I do when I shoot a buck.

Beezer, I hear ya. Yes, it's about antlers and will always be about antlers. UM's deer pic was of a buck with nice antlers. Where's the pic of the doe? There's something magical about antlers. The bigger the antlers, the better. The higher they score, the more noteworthy they are and yes, even worth a lot of money to some people. That's the way it was before I started deer hunting over 36 years ago and even more so now. Most deer hunting shows are about killing bucks with big antlers because that's what is desired. Personally, I'm not a trophy hunter and I won't let a buck with small antlers stand between me and a good venison steak. When I begin to judge the success of my hunt on the size of the bucks antlers, I guess it would be time for me to give it up and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Antlers mean a heck of a lot more than a trophy on the wall. Antlers are an outward representation of herd quality, genetics and age. They say a lot about the available diet and the overall health of a herd in the area. The only way you can see what kind of area you have is to let the little bucks grow.

That's why I hunt for older deer with big antlers. They have already contributed to the gene pool for many years, they are more challenging to hunt and the trophy on the wall is nicer. I won't lie, if it was all about meat I load the freezer with cull bucks and does, but the big bucks get my heart racing.

Had a 17pt buck last night walk across the field at me, he was there long enough for me to count his points start shaking and stop 3 times over. He came right in , walked under the stand. Problem is that he came directly at me, never offered a shot other than a spine shot, never quartered at anytime. Why didn't I shoot, not a good shot, I know I will never see him again, or chances are low, sometimes just because you can dosent always mean you should. If it was a doe I would not have shot at her either way one cannot value one deer over another just because it as a rack. Sportsmanship and ethics are important.

Beezer, you beat me to it. I'll add that shooting at night is unethical because it is illegal and not the other way around. I have seen times, when snow was on the ground and the moon was full, when stalking and hunting at night would have been possible without artificial light or night sights.

Everyone has their own ethical standards. For me, if it is legal, there would be not problem ethically with shooting the bedded deer. I do think it would be unethical to fabricate a story about a great stalk and shot though. I would be truthful when I talked about the "hunt". Here in Iowa, shooting that deer would probably have been illegal since a telephone call aided in the hunt.

I have no problem with seeing a deer from the camp cabin, putting on the required blaze orange, and going out side on to the porch and taking the shot. This would be legal as no radio or phone call helped.

One of the first deer I ever shot walked past me at 20 feet, five minutes after I got to where I was standing. Luck plays a huge part in hunting.

Bob

nice picture and congrats for doing the right thing. i would not have shot him either

Believe it or not, I have actually read all 78 posts and I'd like to add my $0.02 if I may.

I think the major division between the shoot vs. don't shoot crowds are the availability of bucks such as these. If you are able to see deer of this size often or even have a few of them on your wall already, you're more likely to say 'it wasn't fair'. On the other hand, if you see a buck this size once, maybe twice in your LIFETIME, then I think the decison making process is changed a bit.-Regardless if you're a meat or a horn hunter.

Regardless of your opinion, it's quite childish to say 'some people will never get it' or 'you're dumb for not shooting'. I think we all need to be a little more mature. There are a lot of anti-hunting groups that loves to see division among hunters. These types of debates do not help hunters.

I don't think Matt did it intentionally because I've seen his posts and I don't see him as arrogant but the way it was posted probably spured this debate. If he would have simply said, 'hey look at this buck my buddy seen on this small tract of land' and showed us the picture, this wouldln't have blown up like this. But it came across as 'I can shoot these types of bucks anyday so I'll pass on this one because it's too easy'-I'm not saying that's Matt's view, but the way it was presented probably helped spur this on.