.223 for Deer Hunting
10-26-2009, 06:03 AM
#71
Typical Buck
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 501
10-26-2009, 07:04 AM
#72
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Republic of Texas
Posts: 12,040
Naturally,you need enough penetration to get through the hide and bone that is encountered upon entry but beyond that,it isn't the main goal.
Of course,thicker boned animals like elephant need more penetration than whitetail but we aren't looking for passthroughs.
The concept of "transferring all the energy" inside the game is absurd from a physics standpoint. What would you really rather have, a bullet that hits the front shoulder with 2500 ft lbs of energy, and then penetrates and hits the back shoulder with 2100 ft lbs of energy and then exits, or a bullet that hits the front shoulder with 2500 ft lbs of energy but, doesn't penetrate to the far shoulder, thus, that shoulder gets hit with 0 ft lbs? The energy transfers during the full penetration event. The first bullet will hit the front shoulder at 2500, the first lung at 2400, the heart at 2300 the second lung at 2200. The second bullet hits the front shoulder at 2500, the first lung at 1750, the heart at 1000, the second lung at 250, and then pretty much bounces harmlessly off the rear shoulder. If the bullet is slowing down to the point that it fails to penetrate, it's going to transfer less and less and less energy as it slows. The first animal's various organs are hit by a cumulative energy transfer of 11,500 ft lbs. The second gets hit by 5500.
10-26-2009, 07:27 AM
#75
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Republic of Texas
Posts: 12,040
I've always thought it was odd when folks talk about transferring all the energy inside the animal. Seems kinda crazy to imagine that when a bullet hits at 2500 ft lbs, and exits at 2000 ft lbs, it's somehow only dumped 500 ft lbs inside the animal. I would think that the more energy the bullet retains as it passes through, the more damage it is doing while passing through.
10-26-2009, 07:27 AM
#76
Spike
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tampa Florida
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfbakedi420
did i mention we are debating over .02 of an inch?
I haven't done the math, but, also dealing with a 50-75% heavier bullet... Bingo! Bingo! I was wondering when someone would mention this!
Originally Posted by halfbakedi420
did i mention we are debating over .02 of an inch?
I haven't done the math, but, also dealing with a 50-75% heavier bullet... Bingo! Bingo! I was wondering when someone would mention this!
10-26-2009, 12:18 PM
#77
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Coralville, IA. USA
Posts: 3,802
I used to be in the "too small" camp regarding .224 cal centerfires on deer, but with the fairly recent introduction of true big game bullets in .224", I'm not so sure anymore. In fact, I'm curious enough that I might just try poking a 55 grain Barnes TSX through a deer just to see how fast it really dies, probably from a .22-250 Rem. .224 cal CF's are legal in the rifle parts of MN, so maybe if I go up there next year I'll take one along and find out for myself.
Mike
Mike
10-27-2009, 01:18 PM
#78
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
How does a deer die from being hit by a car? There is no penetration.Of course there is massive trauma but what caused it?
Think about this,small calibers don't kill as fast as large calibers,WHY? Both the small caliber and large penetrate through the lungs and neither stops inside the animal,which one will be a faster kill?
Or both stop inside the animal,which one will cause the quicker death.
Hit a deer in the shoulder and the bullet doesn't penetrate into the heart lung area,it will still die if it is a large enough caliber,this will not hapeen with a small caliber.KE does kill but like most of you,I prefer to have a hole through the heart, lungs.
I have chosen loads to have complete penetration through both sides when in the hands of a child because I want blood in case of a bad hit.
Last edited by TFOX; 10-27-2009 at 01:26 PM.
10-28-2009, 03:21 AM
#79
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nekoosa Wi USA
Posts: 6,066
10-28-2009, 03:32 AM
#80
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,695
How does a deer die from being hit by a car? There is no penetration.Of course there is massive trauma but what caused it?
Think about this,small calibers don't kill as fast as large calibers,WHY? Both the small caliber and large penetrate through the lungs and neither stops inside the animal,which one will be a faster kill?
Or both stop inside the animal,which one will cause the quicker death.
Hit a deer in the shoulder and the bullet doesn't penetrate into the heart lung area,it will still die if it is a large enough caliber,this will not hapeen with a small caliber.KE does kill but like most of you,I prefer to have a hole through the heart, lungs.
I have chosen loads to have complete penetration through both sides when in the hands of a child because I want blood in case of a bad hit.
Think about this,small calibers don't kill as fast as large calibers,WHY? Both the small caliber and large penetrate through the lungs and neither stops inside the animal,which one will be a faster kill?
Or both stop inside the animal,which one will cause the quicker death.
Hit a deer in the shoulder and the bullet doesn't penetrate into the heart lung area,it will still die if it is a large enough caliber,this will not hapeen with a small caliber.KE does kill but like most of you,I prefer to have a hole through the heart, lungs.
I have chosen loads to have complete penetration through both sides when in the hands of a child because I want blood in case of a bad hit.
so then how does a bow and arrow kill with only 50lb KE ?
How come I can kill a cow with a .22LR with only 120 lb KE
How come when someone places a bad shot on an animal with a 300 mag and 2500 lbs KE the deer is never found. I mean come on, you just blasted him with 2500 ft lbs kinetic energy why didnt he die.
Why are there soldiers walking around with bullet wounds, how come that kinetic energy didnt kill them.