223 enough gun for deer
 

I'm taking my brother in-laws son youth hunting. He's not a very big guy he might weigh 75 to 85 pounds. The smallest rifle I have is a 223. I was thinking a good solid 55 grain bullet would do the trick. But i was told by a different feller to use a hollow point. He'll be using my single shot handi-rifle. What do you guy's suggest?

Is that a LEGAL caliber where you live\hunt?

Otherwise at a shorter range it should be adequate. If you have a 243, that would be better, or a 20ga. shotgun with slugs. Just my .02.

I agree with sconnyhunter a 243 is a better choice for deer than 223, unless he is a good shot and dont get jumppy when a deer shows.

I've seen deer shot in the neck with 223's and they went straight down. Never tried it personally but would be confident to do so. Shot placement is everything, especially with a smaller bullet. If the kid can shoot and if it's a legal caliber in your state, go for it. Missouri allows any centerfire cartridge, so it's not at all uncommon here.

If hes a good shot go for it!!!!!Hit um in the heart/lungs though or you'll be doin some trackin!!!!

The .223 and 22-250 are fine for deer...The problem through the years has been that the bullets avaliable are for varmints, not deer ...Back in the 70s I killed a few dozen deer with a 22-250 and the 55gr Remington PSP bullets...

Both Federal and Winchester now load bullets in the .22 calibers that are suitable for deer...In the .223 Federal loads the 60gr Nosler Partition and the 55gr Barnes Triple Shock while Winchester offers a 64gr PowerPoint...All of these are suitable for deer...

My niece has killed 9-10 deer with the 60gr Nosler Partition...She gets nice holes on the off side and no deer have run further than 50 yards...

While a .223 is certainly capable of killing deer I would hesitate to put one in a childs hands that is inexperienced.

If you do go with the .223 the 55 grain bullet would not be my first choice unless it were head and neck shots ONLY. The ammo companies load bullets that are specifically designed for deer.

Federal loads the 60 grain Nosler partition and 55 grain Barnes TSX.
Winchester loads a 64 grain power point.
Corbon loads a 53 and 62 grain DPX bullet.

Any of these bullets would be a good choice and far better than the typical 55 grain soft point.

Heart/lung shots are what the ideal shots are and if you hit there with the .223, ANY buck in the North American continent is going down.

Teach them to wait for the right shot and execute it.

No worries.

iSnipe

I have had much experience tracking deer from youth shooters using .223 and even some using .243.YES,they are capable of killing deer and I have killed them myself with a .223 with hollowpoints just to check the effectiveness of them and I killed a doe and it went down quickly.The issue I saw was the blood was non existant and tracking is tough.My daughter shot a nice buck and caught bone and the hollow point expanded and we got plenty of blood but the we pushed the deer and lost it.


In short,if you decide to go with it,trweat it like a bow.Even on your wait time in stand.


BUT,imo,I would recommend going with a .308 ,yes I know what it sounds like but after my experience tracking deer for 4 different youths using the .223 I advise the .308 with light loads like a 125 grain or 150 grain bullet.

My son started using his when he was 8 and we have yet to have a deer run off.Rossi makes a youth model and is an excellent choice combined with a red dot scope,the child will have a blast.

This is the gun he used for these 2 kills and both dropped in their tracks.
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/deer...succesful.html

defiantly, shot placement is everything

thanks for the great ideas and advice.

1 thing you might want to consider for practice,LOTS of shots with a 22.This will enable the child to learn how to shoot without fear of getting hurt on every shot and increasing the fun and learning curve.


Don't even let them shoot the higher caliber without a pad on the shoulder at the very least and at best,use a lead sled for practice with it.

I know lot's of guy's have killed deer with a .223 and a .22-250 where it's a legal caliber but I don't think it's a caliber a first time kid hunting should use. A .243 is a much better choice for a kid and some of the larger calibers with the reduced loads that are available now are also good choices.

One other idea for you to think about.

You may want to consider using the Remington's Managed Recoil ammunition. IF I remember correctly it's available in 7mm-08, 308, 270, 30-06 and 7mm Rem Mag.
I've never tried it personally but it might be worth thinking about.

You can use a wrench to bang a nail into a board, but I prefer to use a hammer.




+1 for .243

.223 is fine with Hollow point and good shot placement, In my property where I had to get rid of 150 does, That's what I use and shoot them in the head.

One of my hunting buddies deer rifle for many years was a 222. 50 gr sp or hp's got his tag filled every year.

As long as its legal in your state, no problems.. The winchester 64 grain power point would be my choice. Fairly inexpensive so the boy can practice and will be a good bullet for deer.

64gr win SP, give ya a dead deer quick with a close shot. Reduced recoil loads for some popular rifle cartridges are available. That would be even better IMO.

The recoil factor on a 7lb. .223 with a 55gr. bullet is 22.4.

The recoil factor of a 100 or less can be fired by anyone that can shoot a rifle. Factors of 100 to 200 are considered "moderate" and 200 to 300 is "moderately heavy". 300 to 400 is "heavy" and goes on up to 3,000 on your magnum calibers.

I don't think one needs a "managed recoil" on a .223.

iSnipe

It is definately enough if he hits it where he needs to. I would not use a hollow point, because if he would happen to hit the shoulder it will probably not punch through. Just make sure that he is comfortable and accurate with the rifle.

I think its capable, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Managed Recoil loads are not available in 223. The idea is that you can get a 270 to shoot with recoil slightly below a 243 while shooting
a .277 caliber bullet that weighs in at 115gr. Bigger cross section and heavier bullet than a 223 and VERY light recoil.

243 is what you need....223 is that even legal where you are?

Last I checked, the rule in Vermont was "any centerfire." Under that rule, seems like even the .17 would be "legal." If I remember correctly, the .223 is legal in about 38 of the 43 states that permit hunting with rifles.

.223 will work, IF, he waits for the right shot, and executes the right shot properly. The Remington Managed Recoil ammo, or a .243 are better choices.

Yep.

I would much rather have a kid comment on bad recoil than see a deer get lost.

At first I doubted this. I couldn't calculate recoil force of these two calibers to have a comparison, but I do know muzzle energy.

With the .243 using a typical 100gr. psp bullet and the .270 with it's 115gr. managed recoil psp, I see the energy in foot pounds is 3.75% greater at the muzzle with the .243 over the .270. Interesting.

iSnipe

Best response yet. Just cause it can doesn't qualify it as something you should use. Much better choices for kids IMO like the 243, 45 cal muzzleloader or even a .357 lever action,

"The smallest rifle I have is a 223... "

Whats the next smallest?

For a small framed, short armed person, I'd lean more
towards what fits and feels good to them.

Shoots some targets with whatever guns you think might work.
Might surprise you what he can shoot.

I know the .223 would work fine for most shots (assuming its legal).
Several of my peers use various .22hi-powered rounds.
Figure that most deer are well within 100yds when shot.

For me though, I just don't want to face the biggest deer of my lifetime, presenting a poor shot angle(for caliber), with the smallest gun in my cabinet. I know that's how it'd happen for me.

do you know how many deer have been killed with 22's. practice practice practice and a bean flip will bring em down

.223 is fine you just have to place a good shot. I'm a little bigger than him and i use a .243. And actually my uncle is in his mid-20s and he still uses a .223.