Bucks of Tecomate El Cazador Ranch
10-19-2009, 09:12 AM
#51
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 222
Whoa, where to begin on this post. First of the definition of hunting
hunt⋅ing
/ˈhʌn
tɪŋ/ 
Show Spelled Pronunciation [huhn-ting] Show IPA
Use hunting in a Sentence
See web results for hunting
See images of hunting
–noun 1.the act of a person, animal, or thing that hunts.2.Electricity. the periodic oscillating of a rotating electromechanical system about a mean space position, as in a synchronous motor.
–adjective 3.of, for, engaged in, or used while hunting: a hunting cap.
Origin:
bef. 950; ME huntung (n.), OE huntung(e). See hunt, -ing1 , -ing 2
hunt
/hʌnt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [huhnt] Show IPA –verb (used with object) 1.to chase or search for (game or other wild animals) for the purpose of catching or killing.2.to pursue with force, hostility, etc., in order to capture (often fol. by down): They hunted him down and hanged him. 3.to search for; seek; endeavor to obtain or find (often fol. by up or out): to hunt up the most promising candidates for the position. 4.to search (a place) thoroughly.5.to scour (an area) in pursuit of game.6.to use or direct (a horse, hound, etc.) in chasing game.7.Change Ringing. to alter the place of (a bell) in a hunt.
–verb (used without object) 8.to engage in the pursuit, capture, or killing of wild animals for food or in sport.9.to make a search or quest (often fol. by for or after).10.Change Ringing. to alter the place of a bell in its set according to certain rules.
–noun 11.an act or practice of hunting game or other wild animals.12.a search; a seeking or endeavor to find.13.a pursuit.14.a group of persons associated for the purpose of hunting; an association of hunters.15.an area hunted over.16.Change Ringing. a regularly varying order of permutations in the ringing of a group of from five to twelve bells.
Origin:
bef. 1000; (v.) ME hunten, OE huntian, deriv. of hunta hunter, akin to hentan to pursue; (n.) ME, deriv. of the v.
Related forms:
hunt⋅a⋅ble, adjective
hunt⋅ed⋅ly, adverb
Synonyms:
1. pursue, track.
Now that we all know the definition. What is going on at his ranch is perfectly legitamate hunting. And I can't name a single hunter who, if they had the money and other resources to do, wouldn't do the same thing.
As far as the comments on high fenced hunting goes. I don't know how many of you have hunted behind a fence but it can be just as much of a challenge as hunting on the other side of the fence. That is not to say every operation is challenging, but a preserve that is properly managed will provide you with a hunting experience that is every bit as rewarding and challenging as any other guided hunting experience. A prime example is I've hunted a Sika in a Hunting Preserve. I don't have a Sika head on my wall. I hunted that deer for a total of 6 days. I saw a glimps of him one time. They found that deer 8 months later dead in the preserve, wanna know what killed him? Old age. A total of 25 hunters hunted him specifically and no one ever got him. For those of you who do hunt behind a fence that is great, and for those of you who don't hunt behind a fence that is great as well. We are all hunters.
The future of the sport relies on us. We make the decisions of where this sport is headed. Arguing with each other saying this isn't hunting and that isn't hunting is just going to make the sport go away. I live in Indiana its against the law to bait here. So we hunt using methods that do not involve baiting. In Texas baiting is legal so they use different methods. You want to know the funny part? The deer don't care which method we are using. They adapt to it and still provide a challenge. Just because the feeder is going off at 6 pm doesn't mean the big buck is going to be there at 6 pm. Just like you can have a trail cam setup and every day at 5:45 that buck gets out of his bed and walks to the field on this trail. Yet you set your stand up there and at 5:45 nothing. They adapt to the hunting pressure put on them. I can think of one reason why we all hunt. We're men and the deer provide us a chess game we can never truly win at.
To finish this up. I've hunted public land, I've hunted private land, with a guide with out guides, behind a fence. Its all the same. Its what you make out of your experience. If you don't like this post that is fine. Send me a PM. Either way we're in this together.
hunt⋅ing
/ˈhʌn
tɪŋ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [huhn-ting] Show IPA Use hunting in a Sentence
See web results for hunting
See images of hunting
–noun 1.the act of a person, animal, or thing that hunts.2.Electricity. the periodic oscillating of a rotating electromechanical system about a mean space position, as in a synchronous motor.
–adjective 3.of, for, engaged in, or used while hunting: a hunting cap.
Origin:
bef. 950; ME huntung (n.), OE huntung(e). See hunt, -ing1 , -ing 2
hunt
/hʌnt/
Show Spelled Pronunciation [huhnt] Show IPA –verb (used with object) 1.to chase or search for (game or other wild animals) for the purpose of catching or killing.2.to pursue with force, hostility, etc., in order to capture (often fol. by down): They hunted him down and hanged him. 3.to search for; seek; endeavor to obtain or find (often fol. by up or out): to hunt up the most promising candidates for the position. 4.to search (a place) thoroughly.5.to scour (an area) in pursuit of game.6.to use or direct (a horse, hound, etc.) in chasing game.7.Change Ringing. to alter the place of (a bell) in a hunt.–verb (used without object) 8.to engage in the pursuit, capture, or killing of wild animals for food or in sport.9.to make a search or quest (often fol. by for or after).10.Change Ringing. to alter the place of a bell in its set according to certain rules.
–noun 11.an act or practice of hunting game or other wild animals.12.a search; a seeking or endeavor to find.13.a pursuit.14.a group of persons associated for the purpose of hunting; an association of hunters.15.an area hunted over.16.Change Ringing. a regularly varying order of permutations in the ringing of a group of from five to twelve bells.
Origin:
bef. 1000; (v.) ME hunten, OE huntian, deriv. of hunta hunter, akin to hentan to pursue; (n.) ME, deriv. of the v.
Related forms:
hunt⋅a⋅ble, adjective
hunt⋅ed⋅ly, adverb
Synonyms:
1. pursue, track.
Now that we all know the definition. What is going on at his ranch is perfectly legitamate hunting. And I can't name a single hunter who, if they had the money and other resources to do, wouldn't do the same thing.
As far as the comments on high fenced hunting goes. I don't know how many of you have hunted behind a fence but it can be just as much of a challenge as hunting on the other side of the fence. That is not to say every operation is challenging, but a preserve that is properly managed will provide you with a hunting experience that is every bit as rewarding and challenging as any other guided hunting experience. A prime example is I've hunted a Sika in a Hunting Preserve. I don't have a Sika head on my wall. I hunted that deer for a total of 6 days. I saw a glimps of him one time. They found that deer 8 months later dead in the preserve, wanna know what killed him? Old age. A total of 25 hunters hunted him specifically and no one ever got him. For those of you who do hunt behind a fence that is great, and for those of you who don't hunt behind a fence that is great as well. We are all hunters.
The future of the sport relies on us. We make the decisions of where this sport is headed. Arguing with each other saying this isn't hunting and that isn't hunting is just going to make the sport go away. I live in Indiana its against the law to bait here. So we hunt using methods that do not involve baiting. In Texas baiting is legal so they use different methods. You want to know the funny part? The deer don't care which method we are using. They adapt to it and still provide a challenge. Just because the feeder is going off at 6 pm doesn't mean the big buck is going to be there at 6 pm. Just like you can have a trail cam setup and every day at 5:45 that buck gets out of his bed and walks to the field on this trail. Yet you set your stand up there and at 5:45 nothing. They adapt to the hunting pressure put on them. I can think of one reason why we all hunt. We're men and the deer provide us a chess game we can never truly win at.
To finish this up. I've hunted public land, I've hunted private land, with a guide with out guides, behind a fence. Its all the same. Its what you make out of your experience. If you don't like this post that is fine. Send me a PM. Either way we're in this together.
Last edited by ACutting; 10-19-2009 at 09:23 AM.
10-19-2009, 10:59 AM
#52
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,862
I honestly could care less how these Texas boys try to defend their way of hunting. They may think it makes them great hunters just because they manage the land with food plots , QDM practices and such. All I know is that if they were sent to hunt in a more natural deer environment where the deer weren't known by their first names like they are on their Texas ranches they would probably shoot JACK. On the flip side, the hunter from Maine or the Adirondacks who might only see a few deer per season would have NO problem killing a deer on a Texas ranch. I think it's NO contest on who the real hunters are between these two scenarios.
10-19-2009, 11:07 AM
#53
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,137
The future of the sport relies on us. We make the decisions of where this sport is headed.
Ask 100 non hunters(not anti hunters) what they think about growing deer etc, and get back with us.
The deer don't care which method we are using.
Arguing with each other saying this isn't hunting and that isn't hunting is just going to make the sport go away.
We are all hunters.
I spent the afternoon yesterday sitting in the woods with my 11 yr old daughter, munching on a couple 3 Muskateers and talking and seeing a couple deer, take that over a 150 inch raised animal anyday.
Last edited by Charlie P; 10-19-2009 at 11:22 AM.
10-19-2009, 11:43 AM
#54
Spike
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 60
I honestly could care less how these Texas boys try to defend their way of hunting. They may think it makes them great hunters just because they manage the land with food plots , QDM practices and such. All I know is that if they were sent to hunt in a more natural deer environment where the deer weren't known by their first names like they are on their Texas ranches they would probably shoot JACK. On the flip side, the hunter from Maine or the Adirondacks who might only see a few deer per season would have NO problem killing a deer on a Texas ranch. I think it's NO contest on who the real hunters are between these two scenarios.
10-19-2009, 12:13 PM
#55
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,862
I couldn't disagree more. The guy that runs the tecomate ranch is a lifelong wildlife biologist and whitetail expert. He could go into any whitetail deer habitat and tell you more about them than you could imagine. I don't think he'd have a problem fillin his tag anywhere. Getting a trophy is another story. That takes time to get to know the area and the deer that live there. He's been hunting the "real" way most of his life. Now, that he has the money and resources, he wants to grow trophies. I think that's great. It is an absolute fallacy that the success he has on his ranch makes him a poor hunter elsewhere. The jealousy on this topic is incredible.
10-19-2009, 01:53 PM
#56
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 222
All you guys want to do is argue. I've been studying this particular topic for almost a decade. To those of you who are opposed to food plots, that is ludacris. You are opposed to creating a healthier more stable deer environment. Goes against everything you should be for. Supplements and high fences yes have some major issues to deal with at hand. But just because there are high fenced hunting operations that are unethical does not mean they all are nor does it mean they don't have a purpose in the sport. Steve deer in a totaly natural environment with little interference with man, due to the lack of natural predators, kill themselves in large numbers. Unregulated deer over populate an area rapidly. The deer end up eating all of the vegetation and eventually end up starving to death. But they don't have one or two the starve to death for the good of the herd the whole herd starves to death. This is especially true in northern states that have harsh winters. The use of sustained harvest deer management to keep the deer herd in a suitable level. Do you know where that level typically falls? 10-15 deer per square mile. I'm assuming you've been hunting long enough to understand the quality of hunting 10-15 deer per square mile provide. Great if you don't mind only seeing deer once in a while. So how do you increase your pleasure of hunting? Simple increase the carrying capacity of the environment. Only way to do that is increase the nutritional value of the food available. Plant food plots. Don't get me wrong there are some areas of the country that sustain many more deer per mile and some that sustain less. But on average 10-15 deer per mile is pretty much normal. Assuming your deer population has a pefect buck to doe ratio of 1 buck to every 1.5 does that will provide you with roughly 5 bucks to 8 does average. Not alot to see or hunt.
I can appreciate where you are coming from though Steve. You feel as if the management has been taken too far on this particular ranch. I've never been there so I can't say for sure it has or has not but from what I have read about this place he has created essentially a paradise for deer and hunters as far as habitat is concerned. There are no high fences on the ranch however. The deer are free to come and go as they please. Also a Wildlife biologists main purpose is to ensure that the herd is in the best condition possible. I'd say his herd is in pretty good condition.
Charlie P, you don't like where the sport is headed I presume. I'd love to hear your opinion on that. That is not me saying I don't care I'd honestly like to hear what you have to say. By the number of posts you have you are quite active in the community. This topic is split in an interesting manner as far as hunters and non hunters are concerned. You have 20% hunters 60% neutral and 20% anti-hunters. Your suggestion of asking 100 non hunters I've done previously. A unique thing arises every time "How does it affect me?" People don't seem to care about a topic until it affects them which is why the breakdown is 20 60 20. And the answers very from location to location. Acceptable hunting practices are not the same around the country or the globe. I grew up hunting whitetail deer in northern minnesota. We didnt' bait, I didn't hunt fenced areas, We hunted large unbroken tracts of timber. With rifles. Where I live now in indiana hunting large tracts of timber is not possible its not here. We hunt fence rows and edges. Hunting with a rifle is illegal and even if it was legal many consider it cheating or unethical because you are able to shoot deer at several hundred yards and beyond. To answer your point about the family tradition and deer hunting going away. Sadly our world has become a place of monetary value. Deer hunting the way you know it and believe it or not the way I grew up is fading fast. Deer hunting has become a source of revenue for the state and private companies. The bad part is those are the only reasons you and I still have the right/priveledge to hunt. Take away the money and the people in charge don't care and the Anti Hunters get their way. But there is a fine line between reasonable and excessive. I'd say we're on the excessive side of it. We are losing hunters every year because it is becoming to expensive and they don't have enough time to hunt due to having to work to pay other bills. Combined with lack of suitable land and public lands being over hunted in many states. So those hunters that do have the time and the money are becoming ever more dependant on ranches to hunt at. Because they can't afford the time to hunt every weekend or take two weeks off to hunt deer in the state. People become discouraged and leave the sport if they go season after season with out harvesting anything. Ranch's fill that void that has been created. And you are absolutely right many of those hunters don't have the woodsmanship to hunt else where anymore. But at least they are hunting and supporting the sport. That hunting equipment they buy helps pay for new hunting areas the money they spend on license helps reinforce the states stance that hunting is good for the state and good for the people. Each of us have our reasons for hunting other then the chess game that deer provide. But we're still all in this together. If hunters don't stick together we will lose hunting all together.
A quick note to finish this up. You're probably wondering how high fenced hunting ranches fit into this, what purpose does it have to the sport. The answer is simple. Hunting ranches provide outlet and revenues for animal species that are not native game. Such as the Oryx. The Oryx species is nearly extinct in its native environment. But due to the ability to hunt them in high fenced operations farms found a reason to raise them and have actually helped increase the awareness of the species and could have potentially saved the species from extinction. The bad news that has all changed. The Anti-Hunters got a bill through that is now banning the hunting of those animals. So now what happens to all those animals on the farms? good question they can't be sold. So the farmers will stop raising them. All the benefits are lost. The Anti-Hunters signed the death notice of a species.
I can appreciate where you are coming from though Steve. You feel as if the management has been taken too far on this particular ranch. I've never been there so I can't say for sure it has or has not but from what I have read about this place he has created essentially a paradise for deer and hunters as far as habitat is concerned. There are no high fences on the ranch however. The deer are free to come and go as they please. Also a Wildlife biologists main purpose is to ensure that the herd is in the best condition possible. I'd say his herd is in pretty good condition.
Charlie P, you don't like where the sport is headed I presume. I'd love to hear your opinion on that. That is not me saying I don't care I'd honestly like to hear what you have to say. By the number of posts you have you are quite active in the community. This topic is split in an interesting manner as far as hunters and non hunters are concerned. You have 20% hunters 60% neutral and 20% anti-hunters. Your suggestion of asking 100 non hunters I've done previously. A unique thing arises every time "How does it affect me?" People don't seem to care about a topic until it affects them which is why the breakdown is 20 60 20. And the answers very from location to location. Acceptable hunting practices are not the same around the country or the globe. I grew up hunting whitetail deer in northern minnesota. We didnt' bait, I didn't hunt fenced areas, We hunted large unbroken tracts of timber. With rifles. Where I live now in indiana hunting large tracts of timber is not possible its not here. We hunt fence rows and edges. Hunting with a rifle is illegal and even if it was legal many consider it cheating or unethical because you are able to shoot deer at several hundred yards and beyond. To answer your point about the family tradition and deer hunting going away. Sadly our world has become a place of monetary value. Deer hunting the way you know it and believe it or not the way I grew up is fading fast. Deer hunting has become a source of revenue for the state and private companies. The bad part is those are the only reasons you and I still have the right/priveledge to hunt. Take away the money and the people in charge don't care and the Anti Hunters get their way. But there is a fine line between reasonable and excessive. I'd say we're on the excessive side of it. We are losing hunters every year because it is becoming to expensive and they don't have enough time to hunt due to having to work to pay other bills. Combined with lack of suitable land and public lands being over hunted in many states. So those hunters that do have the time and the money are becoming ever more dependant on ranches to hunt at. Because they can't afford the time to hunt every weekend or take two weeks off to hunt deer in the state. People become discouraged and leave the sport if they go season after season with out harvesting anything. Ranch's fill that void that has been created. And you are absolutely right many of those hunters don't have the woodsmanship to hunt else where anymore. But at least they are hunting and supporting the sport. That hunting equipment they buy helps pay for new hunting areas the money they spend on license helps reinforce the states stance that hunting is good for the state and good for the people. Each of us have our reasons for hunting other then the chess game that deer provide. But we're still all in this together. If hunters don't stick together we will lose hunting all together.
A quick note to finish this up. You're probably wondering how high fenced hunting ranches fit into this, what purpose does it have to the sport. The answer is simple. Hunting ranches provide outlet and revenues for animal species that are not native game. Such as the Oryx. The Oryx species is nearly extinct in its native environment. But due to the ability to hunt them in high fenced operations farms found a reason to raise them and have actually helped increase the awareness of the species and could have potentially saved the species from extinction. The bad news that has all changed. The Anti-Hunters got a bill through that is now banning the hunting of those animals. So now what happens to all those animals on the farms? good question they can't be sold. So the farmers will stop raising them. All the benefits are lost. The Anti-Hunters signed the death notice of a species.
Last edited by ACutting; 10-19-2009 at 02:08 PM.
10-19-2009, 06:24 PM
#57
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fulton county IL USA
Posts: 4,271
ACutting,
I doubt very much that an intelligent debate backed by actual FACTS that you present will get any impressive replies back from the jealous, rednecked, bubbas that simply wish they had the restraint to pass up any animals or make ANY effort to improve the quality of their hunting. It's as useless as they are.
Thank you for your posts though.
I doubt very much that an intelligent debate backed by actual FACTS that you present will get any impressive replies back from the jealous, rednecked, bubbas that simply wish they had the restraint to pass up any animals or make ANY effort to improve the quality of their hunting. It's as useless as they are.
Thank you for your posts though.
10-19-2009, 07:34 PM
#58
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,462
I honestly could care less how these Texas boys try to defend their way of hunting. They may think it makes them great hunters just because they manage the land with food plots , QDM practices and such. All I know is that if they were sent to hunt in a more natural deer environment where the deer weren't known by their first names like they are on their Texas ranches they would probably shoot JACK. On the flip side, the hunter from Maine or the Adirondacks who might only see a few deer per season would have NO problem killing a deer on a Texas ranch. I think it's NO contest on who the real hunters are between these two scenarios.
Also, I HATE this pay by the inch crap. I would never hunt anywhere you pay by the inch. It doesn't matter how good of a outdoorsman you are, it just depends on how big your wallet is. If $$$$ determines how big of a deer you can shoot, well, that is BS!!
Personally, Id rather have 400 acres in Illinois, Iowa or Kansas rather than his 3000 acres in Texas. That hunting down there just isn't for me I guess.
10-19-2009, 07:49 PM
#59
Spike
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 48
LOL
ACutting,
I doubt very much that an intelligent debate backed by actual FACTS that you present will get any impressive replies back from the jealous, rednecked, bubbas that simply wish they had the restraint to pass up any animals or make ANY effort to improve the quality of their hunting. It's as useless as they are.
Thank you for your posts though.
I doubt very much that an intelligent debate backed by actual FACTS that you present will get any impressive replies back from the jealous, rednecked, bubbas that simply wish they had the restraint to pass up any animals or make ANY effort to improve the quality of their hunting. It's as useless as they are.
Thank you for your posts though.
"You might be a redneck if ya aint a biologist and caint afford to grow a world class buck."But if them bucks are a free-romin' and there aint no fences don't they really belong to Texas?
The $ of Tecomate --Chargin' by the inch
How much does Texas get?Is ol' Dave a gittin land owner "nuisance tags" cause them big ol bucks is a eatin' too much deer food?
Jealousy? What about pride and bragging?
It may not be the case but it seems that way sometimes.
Actually I understand points on both sides of this issue.
Looks to me like it boils down to the "haves" and "have nots"
I am a have not -shame on me-
but useless? Well I've been called worse.
10-20-2009, 05:37 AM
#60
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 19,137
I'd love to hear your opinion on that.
I let a nice s 6pt walk by at 14 yards last night, it should be my choice to do that not a mandate from the goverment telling me I can only shoot an animal of X size. If I decide later in the season to take a smaller buck, for what ever reason I choose too bad. Look at Il cornfeds post you doesn't respect someones elses choices?
I let bucks walk by all season, I put a stalk on one and kill it at 15 yards with my bow and it was a great hunt someone like him would look down on it because the deer didn't score 140. I've shot deer at 8 yards off the ground with my bow, to me that's a meaningful hunt . Someone like ilcornfed would tell me I should shoot a doe for meat, to me it means something how I killed the deer.
Let's say my daughter calls a buck in to bow range for me this season, I shouldn't shoot it because a horn hunter wants it left so the can put a set of antlers on the wall instead of me and my child having a great memory.
I think that when you are impregnating does,putting tags in their ears, feeding deer so that an area can hold over it's natural capicity you are no longer hunting.
A group of guys that hunt together want to have rules that you can only shoot X size buck, I have no problem with that. But don't try and impose what you want on me.
I got into the trophy hunting for awhile and it almost ruined hunting for me. I know a couple guys that don't take their kids when their young because they might not be able to shoot Mongo if the kids there.
But there is a fine line between reasonable and excessive. I'd say we're on the excessive side of it.
But at least they are hunting and supporting the sport.
I think high fences and pay by the inch and guarenteed hunts are and will be the downfall to hunting and when it comes to that I will no longer hunt and I won't care if they shut everyone of the places down.
If hunters don't stick together we will lose hunting all together.
It's as useless as they are.