BOWHUNTER818

EXACTLY, and the popilation isnt that high, less people hunt them and basically there is less hunting pressure cause the deer have more places to go and bed, and avoid humans..Think about it There are so many PA hunters that they practically take the day off and schools close in some parts the opening day of Gun season , to hunt whats that tell you..Less people+wide open contry=BIG BUCKS

-NICK

JUSTIN342987

To grow big deer there are three major ingredients genetics, genetics and genetics. Food contributes to healthier deer, bigger bodied, and the shorter seasons in the states and more managing add to it quite a bit. But lets face it the next record buck is not going to come from a doe that was bred by a 120" 6 year old deer, its all about genetics.

J Pike

BOWHUNTER The # of hunters that we have in PA. has nothing to do with it, Muskingum Co. OH. has produced more 180 + inches bucks than all 64 PA. Co.'s combined over the years and their has been alot more bucks that reached the ages of 4-7 years old in the entire state of PA. than that one county in OH. over the years. Pike

superstrutter

Allowing them to grow is just part of it, not the real reason. Better soil=better nutrition=healthier deer=better genetics. Deer in some parts of the country just aren't going to grow as big as other parts because of the nutrition. If a deer is not offered a quality food source along with adequate water and cover, he will never reach his potential. Yes it is common sense to say if you let a buck grow he will get bigger, but without the right nutrition, he will not grow to his potential.

BOWHUNTER818

WRONG, genetics are part of it but not the major factor...you could have a 140 class 4 point, someone shoots him there goes your Record, The less hunting pressure there is the better chances of your deer growing bigger. Think of the deer farms and how there done, some have great genetics and some dont but they all become great deer. Living environment, Hunting pressure and Deer herd management all grow big bucks..Genetics play a little factor in Big deer..

-NICK

BOWHUNTER818

Pike i was useing PA as an example its one of the highest deer populated states in the country and also one of the most states that have states that have recorded harvests..There are alot of deer killed in PA, nothing wrong with that all im saying is that there are alot of deer killed that shouldnt be shot..Thats all.

NICK

J Pike

Justin its not genetics for example my area of PA. has the same sub species of deer with the same genetic potential as deer in OH. and IL. My area of PA. also has some of the most fertile soil (for farming) as any place in the country and every inch of tillable land is planted in AG. crops ( atleast the tillable land that isnt under concrete) Now my area of SE. OH. grows bucks as big as anywhere in the country but the area is almost completely void of AG. crops and the deer only have natural browse as their food sources. and even though my area of OH. has alot more deer per square mile than my area of PA., and the fact that the deer are the exact the same sub species with the exact same genetic potential the deer in my area of OH. are far bigger than the deer in my area of PA.
The only positive difference that my area of OH. has over my area in PA. is even though my area of OH.'s soil isnt as "" fertile"" as the soil here in my area of PA. it has a far greater mineral content in the soil than the soil here in PA. There is a big difference between fertile soil and mineral rich soil when it comes to growing huge deer, and in alot of area's there are both present but in alot of area's that grow huge whitetails both are not present. Below is pics of 2 huge bucks fro my area in OH., both are 3.5 years of age and I have never once seen one 3.5 year old buck that even came close to these bucks in my area of PA. Pike

BOWHUNTER818

Agree 100% but i am also saying you dont see deer that size in PA due to poor neutrition, (people) population and hunting pressure...but revearse those factors and you have Big deer..By the way Pike that is a very nice Buck for 3.5

-NICK

J Pike

BOWHUNTER, Dont worry didnt take it the wrong way etc.
I was just pointing out that even though PA. has a tremendous amount of hunting preasure (were the 3rd largest army in the world)
The entire starte of PA. has had alot more bucks reach the ages of 4-7 years of age over the years than that one county in OH. (Muskingum Co) has had reach 4-7 years of age. But Muskingum Co. OH. has produced more 180 + inch deer than all 64 PA. counties combined. Pike

fastetti

Completly agree here. Ive hunted many places and I believe that age is part of it, but Genetics and nutrition are far ahead of it. For instance, where I hunt in Michigan, we have shot many 2.5 to 4.5 yr old bucks that have little more than a basket 6 pt or 8 pt rack. All the racks in that area are quite small and similar. Ive only seen a few shot in Michigan around where I hunt that would be considered good deer in Illinois. Why I believe this is so? One, soil quality. There are far less nutrients in the soil up in Northern Michigan. Those deer just got get the nutrients they need to grow big antlers. The rich fertile grounds of Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska and Kansas and much more indusive for growing larger antlers than the less fertile sand of the Northern US. 2. Genetics. Some area of the country have very few bucks that carry the genetics to be big deer. I believe that most everywhere in the country has genetics to grow big deer the difference is how many deer in each part of the country pass on the genetics. 3. Hunting pressure. I think hunting pressure does have something to do with it, but not as much as the above two. You can usually tell by 2.5 years if a deer has the genetics to be a trophy of not and I just don't see those antlers much in my area of MI.

I know people that have 700 acre tracks if land in Michigan that thick a 8 pt scoring a 100 B&C is a great deer for there land. I also know of people that have 60 acres in Illinois and Iowa that refuse to shoot deer under 130 B&C and a deer scoring 100 B&C would be an insult to shoot.

The last 2 years I have taken 2 different bucks that were 2.5 years old. One of the bucks I got in Michigan, he was a small basket rack 5 pt. He may have scored 60 pts B&C and was considered an average 2.5 year old buck for that area. The other buck I got in S. Illinois, same age, but this one scored 130 B&C and was considered an average to above average deer for that age class in that area. Both were average bucks for there area and were the same age, but both had different genetics and different food sources therefor different racks.

Hunting pressure of course has a lot do with trophy bucks as well. Heck, you can't shoot a monster if he doesn't live to be 3.5 years and above. I believe though if we stopped deer hunting all together for 4 years in the US, you still would have more of the record class deer in the states they are in now than the other states. Texas though I doesn't think count. The Big deer you see there are taken off of 3000 acre ranches that feed and more than likely have high fences. Everywhere else I think the above is true.