trmichels

Firs off you can have regional differences, based on local weather conditions alone. But it is unlikely when it is 35 miles away.

Secondly, it is the meteorological/weather conditions (as in the arrival of spring weather, that allows new green growth for the does to eat, which allows them to produce milk for the fawns to survive) that actually is the determining factor (not the trigger) as to when deer "should breed". And, because spring arrives at different times in different areas, the does in each area set their "breeding clock/eye) to the amount of sunlight per day, in each area, to determine when peak breeding is best for them in that area.

But, unbalanced buck tro doe ratios (causee by hunting) can change the peak (1 week) of the breeding season for deer in any area. Not enough mature bucks (meaning some does get bred later than they should) often leads to breeding seasons ocurring later than they should, and it may also "stretch" what should be a 60-90 day breeding season, into a 120 day or longer breeding season. AND, breeding seasons at southern latitudes can be (and are) longer than the seasons at northern latitudes, because spring lasts longer, and winter does not come as early (so late born fawns do not die of hypothermia from cole weather). Which means that late born fawns can and will survive. In southern Mexico, breeding may occur almost all year long, while in southern Canada it may lost only 60 days. Look at any Rut dates char with several state son it, and you will se there are different dates in different states, nd even differetn dates within the saem state.

Studies by Miller and Marchinton, and other deer managers, have shown that some aspects of QDM (such as balancing the buck to doe ratio; letting more younger bucks go and grow - resulting in more breeding age bucks) can result in earlier peak breeding dates, and shorter breeding season lengths.

So, hunting can have a great impact on when the rut begins and peaks, and how long it lasts.

Also, the importatin of deer from another location, can change breeding dates, because it may take a few generations for the doe population to adjust to the dates when peak breeding "should" occur in their new area. urvival of the fittest...

God bless,

T.R.

trmichels

We MAY be having two (2) problems here. One is the use of the terms "rut" and "peak rut".

Some people use the term rut to mean the whole breedin seaosn, others use it to mean the week of peak breeding, others thnk of it as chasing behavior, others think of it as actual breeding behavior, other think of it as any breeding realted behavior. So, some of us may be thinking of one thing - when something else is meant.

Let's explain some of these terms - using sci entific defintions - so we are all on the same page.

The "rut", by scientific definition, refers to the time-frame of anything related to breeding behavior, which includes the sate from when the first run or scrape occured, to the dates of all of the rubbing and scraping - and breeding activity, to the date the last rub, scrape or breeding occured.

"Peak Rut" refers to the one (1) week of the year when more breeding occurs than in any other week of the year. THIS IS THE TIME FRAME given on most "Peak Rut Charts. Ita has nothing to do with any activity but actual breeding dates.

"Breeding Season" refers to the time frame from when the first doe got bred, until when the last doe got bred.



Crokit,

Explain exactly what you mean when you use the term "full blown rut". Is it any breeding behavior (bucks chasing does, rubbing, scraping) or is it does actually getting bred?

If you are implying "full blown rut" is the one week when peak breeding occurs, then what you describe as "full blown rut" when you SEE rubbing, scraping or chasing - is not a good indicator of when "peak breeding" actually occurs. The only way to determine when peak breeding occurs (as relates to any phase of the moon) is if you 1. actually see the doe get bred, 2. actually see the fawn born, 3. conduct "back-dated" conception dates on dead does, to measure the fetus to determine when it was concieved.

So, unless your study used one of those "peak breeding dates determination" methods, your study IS flawed, and your conclusions MAY be highly suspect (wrong) - if you are purporating to put forth the dates of the "peak of the rut".

I suspect you are not refering to "peak breeding" when you refer to "full blown rut", and thus, you may not come up with the same dates as those on any Rut Dates Chart.

God bless,

T.R.

God bless

crokit

Why would meteorologica/weather conditions, as in the arrival of spring weather be the determining factor of when breeding takes place, but not the meteorological/weather conditions as the arrival of the fall solistice? Doesn't this suggest the doe are clarevoiant?

The spring event occurs while the doe are already impregnated, the arrival of fall, shorter days, etc.,etc. occurs prior. Seems the latter would be more influential in being the determining factor of when breeding takes place. Just my non professional, non-degree observation.

May God be with you.

I refer to " full blown rut " as to when I see buck breeding/ attempting to breed with doe. None of my stated observations are based on amount of sign. In fact several areas I hunt in have very little sign, compared to others. Just to save you the effort, I realize what a number of reasons for this are.

trmichels

Evidently you just don't get it.

Peak rut is governed by fawn survival, adn the rut is triggered by shortening hours of daylight in the fall. Through several generations, the does that have fawns survive, pass on the genetics to breed during the right week of the year to have their fawns survive. Does that breed at the wrong time of the year to have their fawns survive (spring weather) don't pass on the genetics to breed a the wrong time, and the genetics to breed at the wrong time dies out. Survial of the fittest and natural selction.


Unless you actually see the does get bred, you cannot make accurate predictions on when peak breeding occurs. So, based on what you have told us, your methods, and your conclusions are highly suspect, and according to deer biologists - you are wrong.

Here is an excert from my Complete Whitetail Addict's Manual - that may help.

Fawn Survival
The time of year when whitetails breed in each area is dependent on the survival rate of the fawns in the spring. Spring fawn survival depends on weather conditions that are warm enough so the fawns won't die from exposure, and on the availability of spring forage, so that the does have enough to eat to produce milk for the fawns. Through trial and error, and selective survival over several generations, the deer in each area have adapted their breeding schedule so that they breed approximately 200 days before the arrival of spring in their area. To ensure that at least some of the fawns survive each year not all of the does breed, or produce fawns, at the same time. An extended fawning season ensures that some fawns will live even when there is a late spring. Because of this, the length of the breeding season in most deer herds lasts six or more weeks, which makes it hard to predict when peak breeding occurs, especially if it is in associated with the phase of the moon - which it is not.


God bless,

T.R.

Charlie P

So we shouldn't go by data from some one that has something to sell? Kinda cuts your opinion out doesn't it?

trmichels

I'm not selling anything related to the rut, I'm giving away.

But, there are people and companies, who are only out there to make a buck, who don't care about the truth. I'd be careful of anyone - including me (if I weren't a born again Christian, who tries not to scam people). You can believe that or not.

God bless,

TR.

Charlie P

Doesn't Charlie do exactly what you do,...............................just a little more succesfully.
some of the worst people I've ever met fly that flag.

crokit

I get it just fine, thank you! Now, according to MY calendars, and I would assume yours, 200 days prior to the spring equinox, which IS, after all, the arrival of spring, puts the date WHERE?? August 20 or so?? Even approx., that's not even close in our neck of the woods. Hopefully, you made a mistake with the 200 figure. Isn't the 200 day figure their gestation period? Then again, I'm no expert. LMAOAY

trmichels

Here in Minnesota peak breeding occurs during the week before November 12, regardless of when the full moon occurs. 200 days after that (which is their gestation period) fawns are born - which is about the last week of May first week of June, which is when temperartures have been above 32 degrees long enought that there is new green growth.

I'm not talking about astronomical spring, I'm talking about phenological spring (when new green growth appears). Forget the equinox ... It has nothing to do with breeding or fawning. Deer are on a solar calendar, not a lunar calendar.

If you got it - I'm glad I could help. I'm only here to dispel myths and tell the truth.


Deer do not just see black and white, they are red/green color blind; they see blue, yellow, brown and gray, but not red or green.

Neither female deer nor elk have an "estrus" call or female "in heat" call.

The "chuckle" call of a hen mallard is not a feeding call, it is an "incitement" call (similar to a threat) that often occurs in a feeding situation.


God bless,

T.R.

trmichels

What makes you think I'm not successful - at least as successful as Charlie? nd it what way. I live a very comfortable life - I consider myself blessed - with everythng I have.

Charlie is a born again Christian (he told he is), so are you refering to him???