RE: When is the rut?
 

Crokit,

A study of 1600+ doe in MN, plus my data, followed up with another sutyd of another 900 does by the University of Georgia, shows that the moon hs absolutely nothing to do with the timing of the rut. The min study showed that over an 8 year period, the rut always occured during the second week of November, but the dates of teh second full moon shcnged- every year. The other sutdy showed no correlation of 900 deer from 9 differetne states - with any moon phase. It does not work.

God bless,

T.R.

RE: When is the rut?
 

A study of 23 racks and 5 shoulder mounts in Elmira ny, plus my data, says different. Read my post TR. Nothing was stated saying that the moon effects the rut. I stated that the full blown rut seems to occur during the second new moon following the fall solistice. I also stated that it had to do with the decreasing DAYLIGHT, not MOON light. The fact that the decreasing daylight hits the point of changing hormone issues in does during the second new moon after the fall solistice, as well as this ALWAYS happening around that general time frame in November [ first few weeks }

Fall solistice is a relative constant. Daylight decreasing is a relative constant. New moon and phases, as well as temperature are the traveling wildcards, IMHO. It works for me and has for better than four decades. As I STATED, MY OPINION. For years we have used this timing method for rut calculating. In fact, I'm pretty sure Dr. Charles Alzheimer from the Bath ny area, has similar study showing the timing of rut to fall in/around the stated time frame. He's the authority I place stock in.

RE: When is the rut?
 

What does "racks and shoulder mounts" have to do with "full blown rut", other than the bucks acted stupid. It proves nothing in respect to breeding.

I'm not familiar with the definition of "full blown rut", what does it mean?

Dr. Karl Miller, professor of wildlife at GA U and a deer biologist, who has studied the effects of the moon on breeding, told his good friend Charles Alsheimer - that he is wrong in his predictions. And Karl has the data to prove it; I know - becaus I gave it to him.

God bless,

T.R.

RE: When is the rut?
 

My experience echos Timbercruiser's. I came to Alabama from Louisianain the early 1970's. Started deer hunting deer seriously here in about 1974. I hunted essentially south of the mid-line across of the state, mostly in the area around Montgomery, Union Springs and Eufaula. I define "rut" time evidence like I suspect everyone else ... when bucks are seen bumping and/or chasing does and/or breeding, i.e. when the does are coming into or are in heat the first round. I know 35 years +/- is not a long time, but in all of these years, the pattern where I have hunted has been around mid-November +/- a week or so, the bucks begin marking with rubs and scrapes.This activity continues and seems to accelerate around Christmas or so.Then sort of peters out.

I have never once seen bucks running does before around January 5 th. or so. In some years, either I have missed tghe January rut or this activity began after Jan. 31, seasons end.

I hunt turkey in the spring. I have seen bucks running does hard during late February scouting. As well as active rubs and scraping going on into late March.

The only exception has been in the area I hunt near Eufaula. There is a definite, easily observed "rut" that fires up around Thanksgiving and peaks around mid-December.A couple of years ago, my cousin and I hunted from December 8 - 13. I have seldom seen such rut activity - does were being run and run hard all those days.We each took 2 great Alabama bucksand passed on who knows how many good but young 7-8-9-10 point bucks. Two weeks later I was down for 4 days, and eventhough it was freezing cold,bucks werepretty much not seen in daylight. We had as many as 16 hunters out and not one decent buck was seen. I have no clue why this cycleexists on this acreage, but it does.However,clearly the main activity , event there, is in the mid-January time frame.

RE: When is the rut?
 

So Dr. Karl Miller told Dr. Alscheimer he was wrong. And that proves?? Chuck does just fine in my book.

Anyone can provide any amount of data to support his/her claims, twisted to varying amount of degrees.

Bottom line: timing of rut or more accurately, breeding season, has more to do with evolution than anything else. Female species must have optimum opportunity to bear young and have the young survive. In the northern climates, as well as southern, they need to be born with enough time between birth and oncoming winter to help ensure ability to survive that winter. Just so happens that in southern climes, this can occur later in the summer, hence a general later breeding season/rut. Additionally, as I stated earlier, I'm speaking of the Southern Tier of NY, not a totally different climate found elsewhere.The rut isn't a one size fits all { climates }. But, then again, I'm sure you know that. It isn't rocket science, although some would like it to be.
I'll stick with my high school education knowledge which, frankly, has served me well to this point.

RE: When is the rut?
 

Karl actually did a study of 2500+ deer in 10 differetne states. If I heard correctly - Charlie did his own deer herd, which at the time consisted of 13 deer in o ne state.

One is a biologist/researcher, the other is writer / photographer.

On this subject, - one has credibility, one does not.

I'm going with Miller. He has nothing to sell, Charlie does.

God bless,

T.R.

RE: When is the rut?
 

T.R., not to beat a dead horse, but at the bottom of page two I noted what I have experienced in close to 42 years of deer hunting. If the shortness of days sets the rut then why don't all the deer rut at the same time? I hunted nearClayton, Alabamafor over 15 years, up till about 25 years ago,and back then the rut was usually in December. I now hunt about 35 miles due west of there and the rut starts mid January and runs till sometimes in April. I don't know if Charlie or Karl are right or if both are wrong.

RE: When is the rut?
 

Because the timing of the rut is set to maximize fawn survival. In the north, the deer breed during a very short window so fawns are all dropped about the same time--early enough to gain enough weight for the coming winter, but late enough to survive any late snow or severe cold. Deer in the south have a longer breeding period because fawns typically don't have to deal with harsh elements.
There is some belief that some southern herds still retain their northern breeding dates because those deer are descendents of northern deer that were stocked back in the 30s-50s. Northern deer rut dates are quite predictable and it's based on calendar, not moon.
Mojo, I bet your lack of buck sightings on your return trip had more to do with hunting pressure than breeding activity. Even rutting bucks will be much more cautious when they know they are being hunted. It's difficult to make any positive claims based on personal observation.
I would also trust professional wildlife biologists over a writer/photographer. Alsheimer is certainly very knowlegeable, but when it comes to science, I trust scientists.

RE: When is the rut?
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: fishguts


First paragraph=what I stated in my above post: Evolution

Second line: actually the calendar IS somewhat based on lunar cycle.

RE: When is the rut?
 

I base my observations of the rut/breeding season solely from a lay man's point of view established over a number of years of hunting experience. No more, no less. I'm not selling anything, nor making money on seminars, just determining, through data gathered, when the optimum time to be in the woods during the breeding cycle. I would be willing to bet, if they are honest here, that hunters in the Southern tier,committed to serious mature buck hunting will notice that through the years the peak rut activity-T.R., " full blown rut "- has occurred during this time frame. If someone has professional,published data referrencing the Southern tier on this issue, as it is the area of which I am speaking, please share it.

My observations have been, for the Southern tier of NY, that the 96hr. period that follows the second new moon after the fall solistice { sp },-of which, only 40+ hours are available for hunting- provides that window. I spend as much time as possible in the woods during that time frame, and it has NEVER failed me. While getting info from people making a living of such info certainly helps, i TRUST what I have observed, which carries no agenda other than to have fun, enjoy the hunt, and maybe be successful. The day I start TRUSTING someone I have never met, or their blanket statements, will be a sad day.

In the end, it's whatever works for an individual, and it works for me. Frankly, it won't bother me if others don't follow the lead, the less scent in the woods, the better.;)