ar restictions for ny
 

here comes more unwanted change. http://blog.syracuse.com/outdoors/20...lming_sup.html

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

I don't think it's going to expand any time soon. They say they'll need 80 percent in agreement before they do it. Most NY hunters are in it for the meat and don't really worry about a big rack. Oh if one comes along they're real happy.... but they aren't interested in growing bone.

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

i hope thats the case,but i posted on the syracuse .com website with many others against it and we keep getting deleted,so i am going to make sure every hunter in ny knows what some groups are trying,personally i am a(so called)trophy hunter,i very raely take small bucks,and almost never take doe,but that is my thing.in no way should it be forced on everyone.

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

Sometimes you need to "force restrictions" on people. That's why there are seasons and harvest limits. Antler restrictions not only grow bigger bucks, they bring the buck-doe ratio back to where nature intended it, which is 1-1.

As stewards of the land and its inhabitants, it is our responsibility to keep things in balance. If you want meat shoot a doe. What is the sense of shooting a spike buck that may posess the genes necessary to keep the herd strong?

Think about how many rubs and scrapes do you see out there. How often do you see bucks fighting over breeding rights. I used to see it often. I havent seen two bucks fighting in years. We have so many does and so little bucks in many areas, these signs are disappearing, because the bucks are so busy breeding the vast amount of does out there. That permits any rinky dink buck to breed, which is not what is supposed to happen. Only the largest /strongest bucks should bedoing the breeding.

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

well we do have some test area around that are trying ar restrictions,and the DEC findings are not quite what the qdma findings are.im just making sure most hunters know what is going on,most hunters in upstate ny that i have spoken too do not play on the internet.and pay attention to seasons, and doe permits. i do find it a little scary that some say (Sometimes you need to "force restrictions" on people.) i dont think thats what are forefathers had in mind.i think many think that this is going to make ny start having Missouri/Minnesota class trophy bucks...its not,the DEC even says that.ny has big trophy deer,i am a trophy hunter ,they are out there,it just takes some old fashioned hard work.like i said im just making sure hunters in upstate ny know...here is a quote from the DEC on what to expect from ar restrictions..... Antler restrictions are not needed to improve
deer health or breeding in New York.
An antler restriction to protect yearling
bucks is not trophy management. Hunters
should not expect a dramatic increase in the
number of record-class bucks taken.
Antler restrictions should not be confused
with Quality Deer Management (QDM).
Protection of young bucks is only one aspect
of QDM philosophy.
The pilot program in the Catskills indicates
that antler restrictions are unlikely to increase
license sales or hunting participation.

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

I can see that they would want a healthier deer herd and some bigger racks but I am surprised they would give up more money too.

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

If you saw bigger /trophy class deer being taken on a regular basis, I will guaranteethat you will see an increse in out of state license sales. You see time and again how this occurs. Look at Kansas and Iowa's Out Of State sales since the word got out about what's being harvested out there.

It's not always about the hunters. If guys want meat, shoot a doe, they taste just as good if not better and it helps the herd structure vs. shooting an immature buck. If New York believed that so wholeheartedly, why is it that DMAP permits for crop damage insist only does are taken? That's what a friend of mine ni Northeast New York is told when he gets permits for his tree farm.

Thanks, good conversation!

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

those states as like Missouri,Minnesota,Texas have always had that class of deer.just as the DEC and wildlife biologist both say in the link.you wont see more trophy class deer,that is where the misconception is,you may in time see more good sized racks,not many go on hunts in different states to take 6 pointers.like i said before,i am a trophy hunter,i have taken several very nice bucks all from upstate ny,thats what makes them trophys. just my thoughts.

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

also that post you pasted is what the DEC said about it not me.its on there web site

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

I'm not surprised at this in the least. From the beginning 3yrs ago, the DEC said this was a test pilot. I give the DEC credit for handling it the way they are. I mean they could just push it upon the whole state as PA did. So least they're taking their time, studying the situation, and surveying hunters on it all. Plus they've set a minimum limit in order to go through with any expansion of it. Thats not shoving it down our throats at least!.
I have mixed feelings on A.R.'s. I'd like to see a healthier herd, better ratios, and a few more larger bucks.But A.R.'s don't protect the yearling bucks with nice potential. I looked overthe racks on mycamp wall from yrs of hunting. 90% were yearling bucks. All but 2couldn't have been harvested under presentAR restrictions. 3 pts on at least 1 side doesn't protect all the yearlings. It only protectsthe spikes, 3pts, and 4 pts. I believea minimum spread should be included, beyond the ears is a easy onethat'd cover alot more yearling deer.
I also feel their is alot more interest in A.R's, that some here realize. The 2 thingsmany, many hunters want to see in the woods is either numbers or large bucks. After all its what most every hunter dreams of is harvesting a large rack record book buck someday.If they can't do that they like to see alot of deer.
Another thought on this if you've ever read any of the Anti's claims on deer hunting. One of the main things they say against us is we proclaim to be sportsmankilling animals for the sake of a healthier herd. But yetwe target any deer, and kill mostly small bucks. Is that the kind of image we want to be used against us?

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

I'm all for it.

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

100% against ARs. DEC should be concerned w/ deer #s, not rack size. If you want ARs, buy land and shoot only mature bucks, if thats what you wan,t but why should the state tell hunters, a spike is not good enough, if thats what a hunter want to fill his tag with?

QDMA is the global warming/ "green'' movement of the hunting community , totally useless, unproven and unfounded theories designed to fool gulible hunters, into an antler elitist mindset. I live on the NY/ NJ border, Nj has ARs, we do not, same deer on both sides.

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

Quote:

---

Look at Kansas and Iowa's Out Of State sales since the word got out about what's being harvested out there.

---

Listen to the locals complain because they can't find anywhere to hunt.

AR doesn't= QDM

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

It wouldn't bother me one bit if this was done on a state-wide basis . I have no problem with shooting does .

I don't particularly care for the "if it's brown , it's down " attitude !

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

NYS should just put the A.R. on state land. This way land owners still have the right to take any size deer on their property. They could also restrict this to certain WMU's where state land is located.

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

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No problem with it even though the article clearly states "the DEC does not see a critical biological need or compelling management advantage to mandate such restrictions.". ??????

I am amazed at those who want to impliment a program statewide that has no sound need or advantage.
All in the hope NYS become a midwest hunting mecca?
Which Charlie pointed out tends NOT to be a good thing for the local resident hunters.

Steve

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

What about the kid or newbie that does want to shoot a small buck, why should your current standards, dictate what others coming up behind you, shoot? Telling other hunters its wrong to shoot small bucks ,cause the average buck might get a few more inches on their racks, 10 years down the line, if we all shoot bigger ones, is like telling a guy its wrong to marry an ugly woman, because if we all marry hot women, well all be better looking in the future. Total elitist attitude.

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

It has no sound advantage because the state says so? What sound advantage does the state say about being one of the worst run states fiscally? You have ridiculous taxes and are run by the likes of (up)Chuck scummer.

Texas practices it and has one of the finest deer herds in the country, both in numbers and quality deer. The optimum ratio is one to one, as nature intended. I have no issue with an up and comer shooting a small buck, but I think its our responsibility to teach them management practices that benefit the herd first, the hunter second.

Again, its not about us, its about the deer.

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

It is wrong to marry an ugly woman! Unless you're an uglier guy.

Its not the same either. It's not about looks. Antlers and testosterone go hand in hand. despite the size of the horns nature intends the best bucks to breed. You won't have the best bucks unless they get some age on them.

Now if you went around killing all the ugly woman, that would be different. If there was no alcohol in the world, most ugly women wouldn't breed anyway!

Its not about us. Antlers are just a perk of quality deer management.

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

Are you saying Tx has 3 point AR statewide and this is the only difference between it and NY?
Therefore Tx does it, so should NY?

Steve

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

If the state wants to have antler restrictions on public land, then I would be O.K. with it, however on my private land if my grandsons or myselfwant to shoot a spike or other "non-trophy grade" deer then that should be my business.

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

Are you trying to say the older bucks with the biggest racks, do the most breeding? Simply not true, in fact Id bet the older bucks are the ones that dont do much breeding at all cause their hiding while the smaller ones are running around breeding.

Its seems totally ridiculous that hunters think they can control the breeding habits of deer.

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

I'm saying the dominant bucks with the most sense are doing the lions share of the breeding year after year. Bucks get old because they are smart. How much seed do you think the yearling bucks that are running around during the day are planting? They may breed one or 2 does before they get shot by some meat hunter but the smarter 5-6-7 year old bucks that are hiding during the DAY are doing the lions share of the breeding at night. Thats why smart deer that know better become nocturnal. Buck supression pretty much keeps the beta bucks from doing a lot of breeding. If you were getting shot at while trying to pick up women during the day, you would start trying to do it at night pretty quick aslo.

I'm not saying we can control the breeding habits of deer. What I am saying is if you leave a good cross section of age classes they will sort them selves out and nature will take over as far as who is doing the breeding. The normal natural structure is 1:1 when we screw with that it causes too many deer per square mile, which is why we are up to our eyeballs in deer in some areas.


Its not about the hunter.

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

I'd love to know how any hunter, knows for a fact, that big bucks are "doing the lions share of breeding" at night. Are you watching deer breed at night, w/ infrared goggles from your treestand? Any deer that have had their breeding habits studied ,have been in a controlled environment, and were not likely to be pressured into breeding nocturnally. Even wild deer tracked w/ a radio collar, how would they know when deer were breeding?

Most things in nature are alot simpler than humans perceive them to be. I think deer get big because they have adapted to hunting pressure to the point,that some can even resist the urge to breed in order to avoid hunters. I dont think its intelligence though, I think its just instinct.

I dont think any deer are "smart" ,and "dominance" in the deer world is a myth too IMO, they are herd animals, not pack animals like canines, I think they fight out of sheer aggression due to increased testosterone during the prerut.

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

Like many of you, I've read of trhe control situations where they take a large high fence area, put a bunch of ubred does in there and then put a number of different age bucks with them. Later on the fawns are tested by DNA and the results show that the majority of the time there are only a few of the bucks that actually do the majority of the breeding. The 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 year old bucks seem to be the most agressive breeders and often there are some of the biggest bucks that breed very seldom. The DNA of young bucks should be basically the same as the old bucks anyway, unless they are superior bred bucks inserted in the herd from another area anyway.

RE: ar restictions for ny
 

Every restriction that you accept is one less opportunityeveryone elsehas to hunt. Don't let the special interest groups tell you how to hunt, if you want to restrict yourself that's a choice you've had since day one, don't force it on everyone else. Restrictions inevitably force those who just want to hunt in peace to choose another hobby, and they outnumber the trophy hunter by a very large margin. If they decide to go fishing instead because it's less bother you run the risk of having fewer hunters keeping the herd in check, and eventually restrictions imposed on you that you won't like such as "no buck" seasons. Bag limits and what should be shot must be decided by those who are paid tomonitor the herd, not those who think they know better. The better game management agencies such as my state has manage for the overall good health of the herd in general, not strictly for trophy opportunities, the trophies are out there if you make the effort to find them. Another thing to consider is this, if your state becomes known for a large number of trophy bucks the incentive to cater to trophy management will quickly encourage the landowners of your state to lease ground to the highest bidder, and once that happens it will become very difficult to hunt affordably. Ask anyone who hunts the trophy states like Illinois and Iowa if you don't believe it. Be careful what you wish for headhunters, you may get it.