Dog hunting......
 

I posted a question last week that got locked because some name calling started. Please try to just answer the question and not start any name calling.

The question is "What is the difference in hunting deer with dogs and birdand rabbit hunting with dogs from a fair chase stand point?"

The Tazman

RE: Dog hunting......
 

Have you ever run deer with dogs?

Dogs and Deer don't know where the property lines are. Would you want someone dogs running deer across your property. Birds and Rabbits don't run nearly as far as deer. In the north and west, dogs on bear and cats work because it mainly done on vast tracts of State and Federal forest. Still there is conflicts of dogs running bear accross private properties. I'ld someday like to experience a bear or cat hunt with dogs, before the practice is outlawed. Dogs on deer just don't seem right.

RE: Dog hunting......
 

I have hunted deer with dogs a few times in Va. I had a great time and would probably do it again. But to be honest I would not consider it fair chase. The dogs we hunted with were hounds. I understand beagles are smarter and slower. These dogs also could not read no tresspassing signs. Any deer hunting that is legal is ok with me. Actually deer drives can almost be the same as hunting with dogs, except with people pushing the deer instead of dogs. If someones dogs were running the deer off MY property I hate to say it but after warning the dog owners one time I would set traps.

RE: Dog hunting......
 

Sagittarius1 I have hunted deer in front of dogs in the past, fortunantly it was with an ethical club that only run their dogs on the property, they had thousands of acres they leased from timber companies and a cannery. They made every effort to retrieve their dogs if thay ran onto property they did not have permission to hunt. Yes there are bad clubs out there that ignore property lines and that eventually will end deer hunting with dogs in Va. To me there is no difference between running bear, cat or deer with dogs.

The Tazman

RE: Dog hunting......
 

Deer hunting with dogs is fun and exciting. That is when it is done on a large club run by a group of hunters that respect the surrounding landowners and the deer being hunted.
To me hunting deer with dogs is the same as bird hunting with a dog. To me it's as much about enjoying the dog working hard for his master as it is about killing game.
Please don't bring up all these examples of poorly run dog hunts. I was a still hunter for over 20 years before I got involved with deer dogs. I know what it's like to be up a tree and have dogs spoil a mornings hunt.
There are just as many bozo's that can give hunting a bad name that don't dog hunt as there are that do.

I will take anybody who wants to see dog hunting at it's best as a guest to my club next year. Oh yeah you'll need to bring a shotgun and $20 guest fee. I pay the $3 for your breakfast at the clubhouse.

RE: Dog hunting......
 

Once again, I feel that if it is legal in that state , I do not have a problem with it, even though I would not do it. But, since I would not do it, I would not want dogs running deer on my property either.

RE: Dog hunting......
 

I think that there is room for deer hunting with dogs and maybe {room} is the word for it.It would be hard to hunt with dogs here in my area.There are too many small woods bordered by posted property.If you did not see the deer right away the dogs would be on someones land in no time.I am not completely against it if there is enough land available the owners of the dogs control them at all times I see no problem in it.

RE: Dog hunting......
 

I agree with Shorthair 100%. My feelings exactly. Most of the hunters that don't think hunting deer with dogs never had a chance to experience it. I love it and did it for many years. I had my own Walker hounds as well as Beagles. If you have a good club and surround the area you hunt in fairly well (most club members know the normal deer escape routes), the deer normally don't get to go very far before someone gets them. The problem comes in when you try to hunt too large an area with too few people. The deer get through as well as the dogs, and they're out of hearing range pretty fast. I used tracking collars and was lucky enough to keep in contact with them and know their direction to catch them before they cross roads or other property. A good club will help you with staying with the dogs and keeping them out of trouble. Like Shorthair said, there are good clubs and bad clubs, just like with anything else. It's too bad the bad ones spoil it for everyone. I don't know about you, but the sound of a pack of dogs coming hot on a deer trail is pure music to my ears. To me, it's no different than fox hunting. It IS fiar chase and a lot of the deer get away unharmed. In fact, most of the areas I hunted in SE VA, the deer are so used to dogs being around, even if they are chased out, they are back in the same spots withing a few days. It's a different kind of hunting (one that I love) but it's not for everyone. If you like sitting in a tree stand all day "hoping" something comes by, then that's fine. Don't knock it until you've tried it.

RE: Dog hunting......
 

My uncle has a camp in Northern Ontario and they run dogs every year. They get together with the other 3 camps in the area(about 22 guys total), hire 2 native guides and run about 5-8 dogs. They hunt the 4 camps own 1800 acres, and about 3000 acres of crown land. They only harvest 3-5 deer a year between all camps.

Some areas its the only way, anybody will see deer! a major drawback is you usually dont go home with the same dogs you went up with, or you have a "new one".

RE: Dog hunting......
 

I'm not sure on what kind of answer you are looking for Taz. I'll give it a shot. I doubt it is the one you are looking for.

Bird hunting is done with little or no controversy amongst hunters. You're bird dog is usually in-sight of its master at all times. The dog points and you flush the bird. The dog then retrieves the bird and on to find another within site of his master.

Dog hunting is quite the opposite done ethically of course. The dogs run wildly through the woods in hot pursuit of a deer. The hunters keep track of their dog not by watching him but by listening to it bark. Is their any way to call your dog back when it gets too close to property boundaries? No.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>They made every effort to retrieve their dogs if thay ran onto property they did not have permission to hunt.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

It does not matter if they made every effort to retrieve thier dogs. The bottom line is that they ran onto private property. It happens way too often with dog hunters. Way, way too often. So thier is your fine line.
Bird hunters are in complete control of thier dogs and dog hunters are not.

I would love to discuss on how dog hunting screwed up the deer hunting in East Texas and how it lead up to it being Banned (illegal) here in my state. But I'll keep it on track for ya Taz.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Dog hunting......
 

Just to run the deer doesn't seem like hunting ,but if they used it for a jump dog like a bird hunter I could see where it might be interesting .Just isn't legal here .

RE: Dog hunting......
 

I do dog hunt deer with beagles.we have about 26,000 acers.I have hunted this club for the last 16 years,and have only had my dogs off the property one time in all those years.
yes I do have control of my dogs,the rest of the members call my pack the children,because they listen better than some kids.now that is my dogs,I can't speak for anyone else.
if any one would like to try a deer hunt with dogs,give me a call next year when the season rolls around and I will take you with me.you will not be able to hunt just ride along.that is a club rule.
if you try it once you will never condemn it again.
if it is legal it is ok by me.we have enough people tring to stop hunting now,we don't need our own people fighting and causing fuel for the anti's fire.
just because someone doesn't do it that doesn't make it wrong for someone else to.
THIS IS THE U.S.A. a nation where you have a right to be different.
thanks for listening,thats my 2 cents,there are 98 more.



I am not a hunter I am a whitetail population reduction specialest

remember keep your back to the sun, your knife sharp, and your powder dry.

RE: Dog hunting......
 

Most people who condemn it never have experienced it. I am stillhunter but I do go doghunting every once in a while. There are a lot of big hunting clubs here who try to do the right thing. But there is also a lot of people who abuse doghunting. But to outlaw doghunting, if people give in to that what about people tresspassing? Will they outlaw hunting period? I just wish all of us hunters could stick together. If someone doesn't think they like dog hunting I would suggest them take tree climber, and shorthair up on their offers. I would be willing to bet you would want a second trip. I hope they never ban doghunting, if that what next?

RE: Dog hunting......
 

In Southhampton Va it wokrs out great for us because we have alot of land that bumps up against other huntclub land. We have a good deal worked out and some time coordinate hunts so we are hunting the areas back to back and get more dogs in the woods and move more deer. It is fun and everyone if everyone does what they are supose to do we can keep our good relationships with the other clubs.

RE: Dog hunting......
 

johnny there are basically 3 different types of deer hunting dogs, the one that a lot of people have an issue with are the hounds, hounds can easily outrun their handlers even though they could not catch a deer if they tried. The second is beagles which push the deer, but are much slower and a lot easier for the handlers to stay within range of them, and last, but not least, beleive it or not, a bird dog that hunts deer! The guy whos owns one of the properties I hunt used to use them to hunt deer, he says they work deer like they work a bird, as you are walking with them they circle out wide in front of you and then work thier way back to you and repeat that pattern until they jump a deer. Once they have jumped a deer they do not take off running them, but instead they track them and jump them again, he says they don't even bark unless they actually see the deer. He says the best thing about using them is that the deer never really run, but instead keep trying to double back on the dog, which basically means they will be coming right at you. I have never hunted deer using a bird dog, mostly I hunted in front of beagles, I quit hunting with dogs years ago, but enjoyed it when I did.

The Tazman

RE: Dog hunting......
 

I'm with Tazman in that I enjoy running hounds on rabbits. The great thing about beagles and their prey is that the rabbits seldom stray further than 200-400 yards in their circles so you're always right on top of the action. And a good brace of dogs lends itself to some awfully fun times. we usually run them in groups of two, be it 2, 4 or even 8 but hunting them in pairs is the key. it makes for better dogs I think because the competitive nature between them. I've never hunted deer with dogs but could see how they'd be advantageous for perhaps driving deer out of hard to hunt spots (i.e. grown over bedding areas) but I think as far as running them like you would a rabbit, I think it would be hard to stay ahead of your quarry. WR