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Hunt with silencer/suppressor
Does anyone hunt whitetails with a silencer/suppressor? (WI regs' don't say whether they are legal for hunting or not. They are legalto own in WI with a $200 tax fee.)
If so, What caliber do you use and on what model gun? How is your accuracy with the can vs. without? How different is your POI between having it on and taking it off. (If it is legal in WI, I may think about getting one for my 7mm-08 Encore pistol.) Thanks for any experience you can share. J |
RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
i didnt think that you could legally own one in the U.S.
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RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
We can own them here.
I can't tell you about POI, as I have very little time with them. |
RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
Can't us them in Indiana.
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RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
You can legally own them in most states if you want to go through the hassle of getting one and then plunk down the money for the permit and then more money for the device.
I highly doubt it would be legal to hunt big game with though. Maybe varmint or predators at night. I would not go by what the regs say, I would call around and verify that is indeed legal to hunt with. I'm not sure if you need a class three license for a silencer or not, but I know its close as far as paper work and price goes. And a silencer on a centerfire will not be truly quiet. It will take some of the sound of it, and make it harder to locate the direction the sound came from but it can't make it totally quiet because of the sonic crack the bullet makes. From what I understand some reduce recoil as well. Paul |
RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
I can't see the need for one...... so even if I could own one.. I wouldn't use it to kill a deer, maybe my neighbors dog....
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RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
Lot of work to get one. Lots of cash too. $200 for tranfer fee, Cheapest rifle silencer I found was $650, plus having your barrel threaded, thats a lot of cash to make your rifle go "pop" instead of "boom".
Legalities Of Silencer Ownership Contrary to popular belief, silencers are and always have been legal to own under federal law. There are, however, 16 states, plus the District of Columbia that prohibit the civilian ownership of silencers. At this time, the following statesallowprivate ownership of silencers: AL, AR, AK, AZ, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KY, LA, ME, MD, MS, MT, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WI, and WY. Of the fifteen states that do not allow civilian ownership, CA, IA, KS, MA, MO, and MI allow Class 3 dealers and Class two manufacturers to possess silencers. Silencers, like machine-guns, are proscribed under the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934, and are regulated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. The procedure for owning a silencer may seem daunting at first, but actually requires less paperwork than buying an automobile. To legally purchase a silencer or any item falling under the purview of the NFA, you must be at least 21 years of age, a resident of the United States, and have no felony record. The first step is to locate a Class 3 dealer in your state who either has or will order the item you are interested in. Once a product and price have been settled on, the Class 3 dealer will provide the prospective purchaser with duplicate ATF Form 4's and two sets of fingerprint cards. The Form 4's must be filled out on both sides, with passport photos of the prospective buyer affixed to the backside of the form. The buyer then has the Chief Law-Enforcement officer* sign the rear of the Form 4's attesting the prospective purchaser does not possess a criminal record and is not wanted. The two fingerprint cards must be completed and signed by a Law Enforcement agency. The completed paperwork is then sent to the Department of the Treasury with a check or money order for $200.00. The $200.00 is known as a "transfer tax" because as it must be paid whenever ownership of the silencer is "transferred" (in this case, the dealer to the prospective purchaser). As long as ownership remains with the same person, the tax need not be paid again. Only if the owner sells it will a new transfer tax need to be paid. An owner may will his silencer to a lawful heir with no tax incurred. Once the paper work is submitted, it normally takes 60 to 120 days to receive the approved, stamped paperwork from NFA Branch. It is only upon the return of the approved paperwork that the dealer can allow the prospective purchaser to take possession of their new silencer. A copy of the approved paperwork must accompany the silencer at all times (the original should be stored in a safe deposit box). Silencers can be transported to other states that allow their ownership, but to transport a silencer into one of the sixteen states which prohibit private ownership can subject the owner to serious state felony charges. *The following is a list of typically encountered Chief Law Enforcement Officers (CLEO): [*]Sheriff[*]Chief of Police[*]Head of State Police Agency[*]District Attorney[*]A judge with the power of arrest[*]Any other law enforcement officer approved for this procedure by the National Firearms Act branch of the BATF. [/ul] |
RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
In Arkansas where I hunt, I'm pretty sure there is a specific ban on using silencer/suppressors and automatic weapons to hunt.
My BIL use to be a Class III dealer, and could buy and sell automatic weapons and silencers to law enforcement and private owners that could pass the BATF background check and pay the transfer fee. We had a lot of fun shooting M-10 Ingrams w/suppressors when I was a teen ager.All you could hear was the bolt coming back and the bullets impacting down range. Good times. |
RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
there is no reason to put one on a center fire rifle. number 1...the crack you here is the bullet breaking the speed of sound. nothing made currently could stop that from happening. 2...an animal is not going to jump out of the way of a bullet anyway. the bullet gets there before the sound, think of lightning. you see it then you here it. same idea. but you could reduce the sound on a .22 cal that is under the speed of sound. but why would you? in wv you can own them. but too pricy for me to full with.
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RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
Why would you want to?
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RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
I'm not sure why you would want to put a suppressor on a centerfire rifle for deer hunting, even if it is legal where you live. A lot of cost for really no advantage. I can see using a suppressor for varmit/predator hunting (i.e. calling in a pack of coyotes - being able to drop a few without spooking the rest), especially at night. But again - a lot of $$$....
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RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
I thought there would be one or two pessimist to chime in and ask why, but I was hoping for more factual replies. But perhaps I am wrong, maybe you just are curious because it is not the norm and people always have a tendency to question anything out of the norm.
For those who ask why? Here is a list of reasons that all add up to make the cost worth it to me…if the reasons indeed are true and suppressors are legal to hunt with. 1) No, a silencer does not take away 100% of the sound, but it does reduce the sound. A lot of individuals do not take the necessary precautions (i.e. earplugs/muffs) to protect their ears while hunting. A suppressor, which reduces the sound, may help prevent hearing loss (of course depending upon the gun, caliber and ammo choice). How much is your ability to hear, worth to you? Can you really put a price on it??? I own a $100 pair of electronic ear muffs to hunt with that don’t work very well because you get what you pay for. Now if I spent $300 to $400 I would have something better, but for that price why not just suppress the gun? (if the noise is reduced to a safe level) 2) People pay to put muzzle breaks on their weapons to tame recoil, which in many cases aids in better accuracy. I am no expert, but a suppressor acts in much the same way so accuracy can be a benefit; while most muzzle breaks increase sound. 3) I hunt with pistols, so the end of the barrel is closer to my ears and some would argue thus the potential for hearing loss is greater. 4) Simply practicing with the gun would be more enjoyable with a suppressor if there is less noise and increased accuracy (except of course for those of you who are shooting big guns just for the feel and sound), however, many guns will have a different point of impact when the silencer/suppressor is removed, and so it could be argued that hunting with the gun set up in the exact manor it is practiced with is crucial to success. 5) When I introduce my children to shooting, less recoil and less noise will provide a more enjoyable experience (maybe I could even get my wife to hunt with me!!!), of course I will start them practicing with a .22, but even if they cannot hunt with the suppressor, practice will be more enjoyable. (Yes, this statement does contradict with number 4, but I feel both statements are valid benefits of suppressors. 6) I shoot and handload for a 7mm-08 Encore pistol (among others). When my children are old enough to take hunters safety and hunt whitetails (12 in WI), I plan on starting them with an Encore rifle (compact barrel and stock) with reduced handloads. The brand of suppressor I am looking at screws on and off from attachments that remain on the barrel of each gun. So with the initial investment in one suppressor I would be able to utilize it on various guns. Additional thought: I have heard that European countries utilize the use of suppressors simply to reduce noise pollution (perhaps due to smaller countries having smaller parcels of land to hunt on which are closer to populated areas). Do I know for fact that I will gain the advantages of the above reasons? No, because I don’t have experience with the use of silencers/suppressors, but that is why I was inquiring. I was looking for more information to see what others who have and use silencers/suppressors would say, so that I could make a better informed decision as to whether I would benefit from the investment. Some people don’t hesitate to pay as much (or more) for a scope, than they did for their gun as an enhancement for their eyes and to increase potential accuracy. Is it really that different to pay as much for a piece of equipment that will help protect your ears and potentially increase accuracy? I plan on passing my guns down to my son and daughter when I reach my final days; if it does not cost my son or daughter additional money to inherit, then look at it as a long term investment that pays off for anyone shooting with it. Please note: My intentions in this post are not to argue for the use of silencers/suppressors, but merely to gather more information. I think it was valid for the previous posters to question why I was searching for information, but if after reading this post you have a pessimistic view and feel the need to reply or simply want to chime in that you don’t see the point, please consider starting a different thread, it is a free country and you can write what you want; but my hope is that this thread will provide factual information. That’s not to say that I don’t want to hear negative feedback, if you do have a factual experience with the use of suppressors in a caliber similar to 7mm-08, .260, .308, etc… please let me know. |
RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
I use to have a customer that did inner-city hunts at night with a supressed Remington LTR in .308. He was very successful. He had his supressors custom made.
A supressor will not do much in the way of sound reduction so long as you continue touse normal super-sonic amunition. If one uses sub-sonic ammo a properly made supressor will make a sealed breach firearm (bolt action, break action)very very quiet. Quiet enough that you could literally hunt right behind a house and they would not hear the shot if they were inside. Obviously recoil is incredibly light in a rifle shooting sub sonic ammo. Some cartridges to think about for supressed shooting is the whisper line of cartridges. They are experts at supressed firearms and cartridges. http://www.sskindustries.com/index.htm |
RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against using suppressors for hunting/shooting if they are legal - I'm just saying that you have to jump through some hoops and pay some $$$ to use them, and being a very practical person, I don't see that the advantages outweight the costs in most situations.
On the other hand, if money is not an object, using a suppressor (especially on a centerfire pistol, which has a very loud muzzle blast) might not be a bad idea, especially if you're looking at preventing hearing damage and making the gun easier to shoot. But any supersonic bullet is not going to be "silenced", only made quieter.... |
RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
During the paperwork process described earlier, you also sign a waiver giving law enforcement agencies the ability to search your person/ property without a warrant.
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RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
I do not own one. Though I have toyed at the idea several times. Much more appeal to me than anything full auto, which means less accuracy, and a higher price for the weapon (much higher) and more ammunition.
I have shot to date four different rifle systems with suppressors: a 10/22, where the barrel and supprssor were integral. It was built by the gunsmith at the gun shop I worked at for a few years, pretty neat stuff. Totally legal and liscensed. Also got to tinker with one of his ARs in a 300 whisper... same deal... self made. Just a .223 necked up to accept a 30 cal bullet. Reall really impressive. Other two were a Rem 700 308 that is used by a member of our urban hunt team for just that... removing deer at night from golf courses, airports, neighborhoods, parks etc (I use a bow). He loads subsonic rounds and it is no louder than a .22 rifle with subsonic ammo. Just a muffled snap, not much louder than a firecracker set under an empty tuna can. 200gr bullets.... very very very effective. The gun is really deceptively powerful because you feel like you are shooting a .22, but get results like... well a .308. The last was sort of a special circumstance. When I was living in SC, I got to do some culling down there as well (funny how I always get asked to do this sort of thing) on tomato farms on kill permits. One of the guys who asked me out to the farm was a good customer of mine at the shop. He has a custom built .50 cal with a suppressor. Same deal.... just loaded down with sub sonic ammo. Suppressor is as big as a 3 liter soda bottle. Suprisingly quiet. Shoots some huge 800 and something grain bullet. The really impressive part of his set up is the scope. I don't know where he got it or what it set him back-though I have heard rumors from some of his friends it was over $25K(he is a retired Marine lawyer.... never married, no kids... lots of money... lots of time.... likes his toys). All I can say is at 500 yards on a moonless night you can read a license plate with it. And it is very scary accurate. All the suppressed rifles I have shot have hadthree things in common, they definately suppress the report and with the right ammo almost totally silence it (imagine shooting that .50 with no ear plugs.... and you can hear that bullet hit a deer too), they were all VERY accurate, and they are all very expensive compared to standard hunting rifles. The least expensive of the lot was Terry's 10/22. Granted, the rifle is about a $200 gun... and he had to pay his $200 tax and wait 6 months for it to clear. But he did all the work himself. Most of the barrels that have suppressors built into them that I have seen for sale at various places are in the $800 range.... so you can figure that his rig is roughly $1000 plus a $200 tax stamp. And so far as VA and SC go.... they absolutely legal to hunt with. Fully auto rifles, I don't know of aplace that they are legal to hunt with. But VA and SC look at a suppressed rifle just like they do a regular rifle, as long as you can legally possess it, and it is of suffiecent caliber (.23 or larger in VA, and not a rimfire in SC) then you are good to go. |
RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
Thank you to all those that have responded. Bigbulls, I have read about the whisper series before and don't know why didn't think about researching those calibers. I spent some time tonight searching for calibers of subsonic ammunition and handloads for subsonic ammunition and came across some forums I haven't seen before with some good information, so the replies have helped me to keep an open mind to all the possibilities. I plan to do more research before making a decision on which direction to go, so any experience/information(caliber, load data, accuracy distance, brand of silencer if one is used) with whisper calibers that could be used forwhitetails would be greatly appreciated! So far the most noteable information I found is that 100 yards would probably be the max range for consistent accuracy with subsonic ammo (after which the bullet starts to tumble due to low velocity. Which isn't too bad for the woods and marsh areas I hunt in central WI. (Which of course will vary by caliber and load data.) I plan on contacting the WI DNR to inquire about the use of a silencer/suppressor for hunting whitetails and small game within the week, which of course is the most important piece of this puzzle...
A11en, I didn't know about the required waver to sign your property to open search without a warrant when owning a silencer/suppressor; very interesting. |
RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
SwampCollie,
Thanks for the info. It's a post like yours that will keep me interested in this endeavor. Do you know whatthe effective range was on some of those whitetail rigs? The suppressor that I saw in a local shop is around $700, so I am expecting to pay $1000 min with $200 tax and if I switch to adifferent caliber it's going to be thecost of a customEncore barrel, scope, dies, cases, powder and bullets as well. But, I see it all as an investment and am willing to take the time to research all the possibilities. Thanks, J |
RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
John,
I have a Ruger 22/45 (.22 cal pistol with bull barrel) that I planned to put a seppressor on. I worked with a local gunsmith (when I lived in NH) to start the process. Whenhe told me about the waiver, I changed my mind. While I'm a law abidding citizen, I did not want to forfiet any rights |
RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
We use silencers on all of our rifles and its perfectly legal in Scotland. I was shocked that you cant own one in the US why? I dont wanna go deaf.
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RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
Years ago they were perfectly legal, and were used for target shooting and varmint hunting. Obviously to control the noise. Then the wrong people started using them for the wrong reasons (Mob, crime) and they ended up being outlawed pretty much. At least that is how it was explained to me.
And they are not illegal except in a few states, you just have to get a permit to use them. And in most states they are not legal to hunt big with. You can own them, the hunting regs just don't allow them is all. Same thing with using laser sights, they are not illegal you just can't hunt with them in most states is all. I am going to admit something I shouldn't on a public forum but since there is no way to prove it anymore I don't feel too worried about it. I have messed with them, done a lot of research on them and even owned and made a few illegally. You can make a very effective one for pretty cheap if you don't care what it looks like or if you don't want it to last a long time. Some of the more expensive ones work better and last a lot longer though. And some that are made for specific applications actually reduce the velocity on their own so you don't need to switch to subsonic ammo. Depending on how well made it is and how well it is fitted to your gun it could degrade accuracy as well. I don't believe for what you are looking at that will be an issue though unless the install is very poor. I would love to use one for varmint hunting, but I don't think I would bother with it for deer hunting. Just me though. Ear protectors work just fine for me and I can get the foam ones at work for free. And while they won't make a high powered cartridge completely quiet they will quiet it down quite a bit. Plus help with muzzle jump and flash. And like I said before while they still make noise it is very non directional. My only concern with using one on a single shot pistol would be the weight and over all balance will be all messed up. It will have to be a fairly large one to be effective on that type of weapon. I assume you are using a scope anyway, because that will be a must as well. You may even have to mount it higher, I doubt it though. If you can find some forums with more members from over seas, like remington girl said they use them quite a bit over there. I think rimfire central has a few members that use them as well. Maybe some sniper forums wouldn't be a bad idea either. If you get one let us know. And pics are a must;). Paul |
RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
I have shot an M-16 with one of the old SIONICS (Mitch Werbell) suppressors. While it did away with muzzle blast, you could still hear the crack of the bullet going over 1300 fps. Doing away with muzzle blast/flash, and minimizing recoil (not an issue w/ M-16) are the only two advantages that I can see to using one on a high powered rifle.
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RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
ORIGINAL: Paul L Mohr Years ago they were perfectly legal, and were used for target shooting and varmint hunting. Obviously to control the noise. Then the wrong people started using them for the wrong reasons (Mob, crime) and they ended up being outlawed pretty much. At least that is how it was explained to me. And they are not illegal except in a few states, you just have to get a permit to use them. And in most states they are not legal to hunt big with. You can own them, the hunting regs just don't allow them is all. Same thing with using laser sights, they are not illegal you just can't hunt with them in most states is all. I am going to admit something I shouldn't on a public forum but since there is no way to prove it anymore I don't feel too worried about it. I have messed with them, done a lot of research on them and even owned and made a few illegally. You can make a very effective one for pretty cheap if you don't care what it looks like or if you don't want it to last a long time. Some of the more expensive ones work better and last a lot longer though. And some that are made for specific applications actually reduce the velocity on their own so you don't need to switch to subsonic ammo. Depending on how well made it is and how well it is fitted to your gun it could degrade accuracy as well. I don't believe for what you are looking at that will be an issue though unless the install is very poor. I would love to use one for varmint hunting, but I don't think I would bother with it for deer hunting. Just me though. Ear protectors work just fine for me and I can get the foam ones at work for free. And while they won't make a high powered cartridge completely quiet they will quiet it down quite a bit. Plus help with muzzle jump and flash. And like I said before while they still make noise it is very non directional. My only concern with using one on a single shot pistol would be the weight and over all balance will be all messed up. It will have to be a fairly large one to be effective on that type of weapon. I assume you are using a scope anyway, because that will be a must as well. You may even have to mount it higher, I doubt it though. If you can find some forums with more members from over seas, like remington girl said they use them quite a bit over there. I think rimfire central has a few members that use them as well. Maybe some sniper forums wouldn't be a bad idea either. If you get one let us know. And pics are a must;). Paul And all over Scotland its legal I couldn't bare to hunt without one, i want to keep my hearing intact for a very long time. |
RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
ORIGINAL: johnshiredman I thought there would be one or two pessimist to chime in and ask why, but I was hoping for more factual replies. But perhaps I am wrong, maybe you just are curious because it is not the norm and people always have a tendency to question anything out of the norm. For those who ask why? Here is a list of reasons that all add up to make the cost worth it to me…if the reasons indeed are true and suppressors are legal to hunt with. 1) No, a silencer does not take away 100% of the sound, but it does reduce the sound. A lot of individuals do not take the necessary precautions (i.e. earplugs/muffs) to protect their ears while hunting. A suppressor, which reduces the sound, may help prevent hearing loss (of course depending upon the gun, caliber and ammo choice). How much is your ability to hear, worth to you? Can you really put a price on it??? I own a $100 pair of electronic ear muffs to hunt with that don’t work very well because you get what you pay for. Now if I spent $300 to $400 I would have something better, but for that price why not just suppress the gun? (if the noise is reduced to a safe level) 2) People pay to put muzzle breaks on their weapons to tame recoil, which in many cases aids in better accuracy. I am no expert, but a suppressor acts in much the same way so accuracy can be a benefit; while most muzzle breaks increase sound. 3) I hunt with pistols, so the end of the barrel is closer to my ears and some would argue thus the potential for hearing loss is greater. 4) Simply practicing with the gun would be more enjoyable with a suppressor if there is less noise and increased accuracy (except of course for those of you who are shooting big guns just for the feel and sound), however, many guns will have a different point of impact when the silencer/suppressor is removed, and so it could be argued that hunting with the gun set up in the exact manor it is practiced with is crucial to success. 5) When I introduce my children to shooting, less recoil and less noise will provide a more enjoyable experience (maybe I could even get my wife to hunt with me!!!), of course I will start them practicing with a .22, but even if they cannot hunt with the suppressor, practice will be more enjoyable. (Yes, this statement does contradict with number 4, but I feel both statements are valid benefits of suppressors. 6) I shoot and handload for a 7mm-08 Encore pistol (among others). When my children are old enough to take hunters safety and hunt whitetails (12 in WI), I plan on starting them with an Encore rifle (compact barrel and stock) with reduced handloads. The brand of suppressor I am looking at screws on and off from attachments that remain on the barrel of each gun. So with the initial investment in one suppressor I would be able to utilize it on various guns. Additional thought: I have heard that European countries utilize the use of suppressors simply to reduce noise pollution (perhaps due to smaller countries having smaller parcels of land to hunt on which are closer to populated areas). Do I know for fact that I will gain the advantages of the above reasons? No, because I don’t have experience with the use of silencers/suppressors, but that is why I was inquiring. I was looking for more information to see what others who have and use silencers/suppressors would say, so that I could make a better informed decision as to whether I would benefit from the investment. Some people don’t hesitate to pay as much (or more) for a scope, than they did for their gun as an enhancement for their eyes and to increase potential accuracy. Is it really that different to pay as much for a piece of equipment that will help protect your ears and potentially increase accuracy? I plan on passing my guns down to my son and daughter when I reach my final days; if it does not cost my son or daughter additional money to inherit, then look at it as a long term investment that pays off for anyone shooting with it. Please note: My intentions in this post are not to argue for the use of silencers/suppressors, but merely to gather more information. I think it was valid for the previous posters to question why I was searching for information, but if after reading this post you have a pessimistic view and feel the need to reply or simply want to chime in that you don’t see the point, please consider starting a different thread, it is a free country and you can write what you want; but my hope is that this thread will provide factual information. That’s not to say that I don’t want to hear negative feedback, if you do have a factual experience with the use of suppressors in a caliber similar to 7mm-08, .260, .308, etc… please let me know. I suggest you get out your check book and start writing at the earliest opportunity. When you quit writing checks come back and let us know how wrong every one on this thread is and how wonderfully it all worked out for you. I can't wait to hear it. |
RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
IMO you can associate all the negativity to HollyWood.
The $200 fee is an "application fee", collected by the Federal government for your permit. Once you get your permit just take it to a retailer and order your suppressor. Suppressor's are legal in WV to hunt with. Big game, and Varmints. They are a lot of fun in the deer woods. You can hunt other game while deer hunting at the same time. they are also a hoot for shooting ground hog's wih. The key to a good deer load is bullet size. To get the full benefit from a suppressor you must go sub sonic. If you go sub sonic the noise reduction is drastic. The problem is you have a sub sonic projectile. The key is to get as large of a projectile as you can, and to get a bullet that will expand at sub sonic velocities. That is the real catch. The 300 Whisper is a good cartridge to shoot sub sonic, the problem is you can not get a 200-220 grain 30 caliber bullet to expand at 1100 fps. A great cartridge to work with is a 45 Long Colt. Cast a lead 300 grain bullet, and you are good to 100 yards with a very quiet rig that will expand on deer. A lot of people knock other people's ideas. Why??? I do not know. Do not pay any attention to them. It is your cash. If you want a suppressor, then get one. Just ignore the negatives, and accentuate the positives. I am putting together an Encore barrel right now to be suppressed for ground hog hunting. I hunt a lot of barn yards, and around a lot of farm houses. A suppressed, sub sonic load will be a real asset around the farmer's, and live stock. Especially horses. I have not made a final decision yet on the cartridge. It will probably be either a 223 Remington, or a 308 Winchester. I also want to be able to use it out to 300 yards. I will have two loads for the rifle. I want to be able to shoot cast bullets, but normally you can not mix cast and jacketed out of the same barrel. But I am going to give it a try. A lot of people do not realize this, but it is not the recoil that scares children. It is the noise that scares them. Just watch the kid's who are not holding the gun. You will notice they flinch from the noise when their friend is shooting the gun. Take away the noise and kid's can handle a little recoil. I have seen it first hand. Tom. |
RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
ORIGINAL: A11en During the paperwork process described earlier, you also sign a waiver giving law enforcement agencies the ability to search your person/ property without a warrant. Also, there are no "permits," or "licenses." You pay a transfer tax. It will varry from dealer to dealer, but at mine it went like the following(my dealer does a lot of the work for the buyer as to cut out the time and BS): 1. Find Class III dealer. 2. Pick suppressor you want. 3. Pay for it. 4. Dealer fills out Form 4 & 5330.20 with your info, and suppressor's info(serial #, manufacturer, caliber, size, etc.) 5. Fill out fingerprint card with info, sign, and take prints 6. Take two passport sized photos 7. Sign form 4 & 5330.20 8. Pay dealer $200 for the transfer tax(they make out a check in your name), or write a check yourself 9. Have CLEO(Chief Law Enforcement Officer) sign off your Form 4 10. Submit to ATF and wait for approval(if you can buy a handgun, and your CLEO signed off... you'll get approved) 11. Wait for ATF to send approved Form 4 back to dealer with the $200Tax Stampaffixed, and pick up your new toy after you've filled out the standard 4473 form. 12. Enjoy Buying/using suppressors is a very easy process. The way I listed it makes it look long and painful, but it's VERY simple. THe hardest part is waiting for itto get approved. I'm 22, and I've already had 2 suppressor's approved, and a SBR.Not much harder than purchasing a handgun, or rifle. A few more "hoops" to jump through, but at the end of the day when you're shooting suppressed it's more than worth it. Right now I only have suppressed .22's, and .223/5.56. The 5.56 is still pretty loud(about like your average unsuppressed .22lr rifle) due to the sonic crack, but the suppressed .22lr's are extremely quiet. Scary quiet especially on a bolt action .22. If you have any specific questions please feel free to e-mail me at [email protected] I'd be more than happy to talk to you about anything/everything concerning suppressors. Advantages, disadvantages(besides their addictiveness, there are NONE), costs, dealers, brands, companies that make/thread barrels, how to "pass them down to your children," paperwork processes, etc. I can also try and find you some folks local to you to let you demo their suppressors - we love letting people new to them try them out! Here's two pics of my SBR AR-15 w/Tac-16 suppressor: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/JoshSC/025-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/JoshSC/024-3.jpg |
RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
ORIGINAL: remington_girl We use silencers on all of our rifles and its perfectly legal in Scotland. I was shocked that you cant own one in the US why? I dont wanna go deaf. |
RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
ORIGINAL: HEAD0001 IMO you can associate all the negativity to HollyWood. The $200 fee is an "application fee", collected by the Federal government for your permit. Once you get your permit just take it to a retailer and order your suppressor. My first posting as I am a new Hunter but have had silencers for a while now. The postingquoted above, and I am not trying to be a smart ass, is very much indeed erroneous and misleading. The $200 fee is nothing else but the TRANSFER TAX fee collected by the ATF's NFA bureau. It has been $200 since 1934 and was primarily instituted to make it harder for the average Joe to own a suppressor. In 1934 $200 was equivalent to 5 month's salary and it has not changed since (it's predicted by many that under Obama's regime it will go to $2500). Thanks to Hollywood, the device that Hiram Maxim invented and commercialized in 1902, became an image of the modern Mobsters, Yacuza and Ex-KGB operatives. In real life, the sound doesn't evencome close to that portrayed in modern James Bond movies... unless you shoot a Walter P22 or an integrally silenced rifle with Subsonic rounds. Many people on this forum know a lot about silencers, however obtaining one is not as hard as it looks. I legally own 3 silencers, a .22, a .45 and a .223 for my M4; and I have not been photographer, fingerprinted orexposed to the sarcasmof aChief Law Enforcement figure. Anyone(without a criminal record)can own a silencer as a Grantor/Trustee of it's own Revocable Living Trust or a Corporation. Both are entities, however they cannot be photographednor fingerprinted. The procurement/purchase of a silencer is simple: 1.make sure your state is listed under silencer ownership(NJ,NY,CA... NOT) 2.find a Class 3 firearms dealer 3.chose the silencer you want(the smaller the caliber the better suppression and price. Eg. .22 silencer costs $300-450, .45 is about $750) 4.have a notarized Revocable Living Trust set up with you as Trustee 5.dealer will fillout2 ATF form 4s, attach a $200 check made out to NFA and mail it 6.wait for 1-2 months for approval (NFA will affix a nice $200green stamp on your original ATFform 4) 7.dealer will call you to pick up the item :) Hunting with silencers is a common practice among owners, however on a personal note, I would not do it because: 1.I consider itcheating 2.other hunters might be near you and will not hear you and possibly shoot your direction 3.if the game warden catches you with a silencer he will notify the Police, SWAT, Border Patrol, CIA, NSA and god knows who else because they(wardens) have no clue that it is LEGAL TO POSSESS!!!!! By the way many Law Enforcement officers have no clue that is legal to own a silencer... With that said, I hope I didn't offend anyone, and by the way there are hundreds of videos on youtube featuring weapons shot with silencers. It's fun to watch them, and hey,they might even make you get one :) |
RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
By the way 7mm08 (Joshua) described the process of ownership perfectly (via CLEO, fingerprints, mugshots).The suppressor I use on my .223/5.6 Noveske Light Recce is an AAC M4-2000 with 130 decibel end noise. A bit quieterthan the TAC-16 as I tried both before the purchase. On a final note, go to a Class 3 dealer that has silencers in stock and ask for a testdrive. Don't buyanything based on internet footage or recommendations... you will be dissapointed. Try it out FIRST !!!!
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RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
silencers are illegal to own in wisconsin but flash suppressors can be used for hunting these are two totally different items suppressor yes silencer illegal
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RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
ORIGINAL: instinct silencers are illegal to own in wisconsin but flash suppressors can be used for hunting these are two totally different items suppressor yes silencer illegal " [align=center]Legality of Silencers[/align] Silencers are legal under federal law but since 1934 you must pay a $200 tax to purchase and submit to an FBI background check. Fingerprints and photos must be provided and a long wait of several months occurs before the paperwork is approved. There is no 'license' needed to own a silencer. State law is a different matter. The following states allow ownership of silencers: AL, AR, AK, AZ, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KY, LA, ME, MD, MS, MT, NE, ND, NV, NH, NM, NC, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WV, WI, and WY. Of the sixteen states which do not allow civilian ownership, CA, IA, KS, MA, MO, and MI allow Class-3 dealers and Class-2 manufacturers to own silencers." |
RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
It is my pleasure to informanyone reading this forum that it is illegal to sell, deliver, posess , or manufacture any silencer in the state of Wisconsin I do know what I am talking about this is according to Wisconsin state statute 941.298 firearm silencers this infact a felony and if you are caught you may loose the abilty to hunt for the rest of your life maybe you should do more research I am an avid hunter and Love the sport I would hate it to get bad press for a silly reason like I didnt want other animals to know were I was. Thank you sir.
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RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
Wisconsin state law:
Class 3 Firearms: Machine guns are legal if you follow BATFE process, state statute 941.27 Short-barrel rifles and shotguns are legal if you follow BATFE process, state statute 941.28 Silencers are legal if you follow BATFE process, statute 941.298 I am not trying to argue with you, but you are wrong. What else can I say ? |
RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
I am not trying to argue either but the tax you are talking about is for manfacturing of a weapon and the other statutes that you have stated are correct as long as they meet certain specs they are legal. But as for silencers is a device used for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable fire arm. Whoever sells, delivers, or possesses a firearm silencer is guilty of a class H felony. This does not apply to peace officers acting in part of the officer's department or agency. And does not apply to a commison warden or any armed forces or national guard personnel, while in the line of duty.
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RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
Here is the Wisconsin Law Statute 941.298 and it needs to be read carefully:
941.298 Firearm silencers. (1) In this section, “firearm silencer” means any device for silencing, muffling or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating such a device, and any part intended only for use in that assembly or fabrication. (2) Whoever sells, delivers or possesses a firearm silencer is guilty of a Class H felony. (3) Subsection (2) does not apply to sales or deliveries of firearm silencers to or possession of firearm silencers by any of the following: (a) Any peace officer who is acting in compliance with the written policies of the officer’s department or agency. This paragraph does not apply to any officer whose department or agency does not have such a policy. Notwithstanding s. 939.22 (22), this paragraph does not apply to a commission warden. (b) Any armed forces or national guard personnel, while in the line of duty. (c) Any person who has complied with the licensing and registration requirements under 26 USC 5801 to 5872. |
RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
You as Joe Citizen, who complied with the law and purchased a silencer by following the National Firearms Act requirement, fall under cathegory C. Just give a Class 3 dealer a call and ask :)
Here is one: GOULD, Joseph Subgun Ordnance Racine Wisconsin Shop: (262) 770-9894 Fax: (262) 635-8305 Email: [email protected] Website: www.subgun-ordnance.com His specialty is machine guns, Gemtech and YHM silencers. |
RE: Hunt with silencer/suppressor
You could use a .308 with a sub-sonic round to achieve a VERY silent deer rifle. The range and energy will be decreased, but nonetheless, a silent deer rifle you will have. This option certainly wouldn't be hard to do, as long as you have a .308 rifle with a suppressor attached that is.
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[QUOTE=johnshiredman;2548242]Does anyone hunt whitetails with a silencer/suppressor? ,, I can think of a couple good reasons to use one, eliminate noise pollution and hearing damage. I hear people saying it would be pointless on a centerfire because of the sonic crack but I could have sworn I saw a video of a military sniper gun that looked like a 50 caliber and was pretty quiet, the suppressor was pretty long, maybe the sonic boom happens before the bullets leave the suppressor?? I don't know. I didn't hear much when it was shot, just a quick whistle. Probably not the same as what you can buy though.
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