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Letting Does Walk
During the this past year on the opening day of the WVa rifle season, I decided to take a mature doe late in the morning after having not seen any bucks. I watch her and her two yearlings for about 20 minutes to make sure there was no bucks behind her prior to taking her.While standing back at my truck later that morning and talking with the farmer I hunt on and his nephew;who had taken a yearling doe, the neighor from across the road came over and berated me for shooting does. He said not to shoot the does because he was trying togrow big bucks. I have to mention that during his conversation he bragged that he had just shot a 6pointer with probably a 13inch spread and also he had killed a 4pt during bow season. The landowner I was hunting on was tickled that we took some overabundent deer off his land. I don't see how letting does walk will grow bigger bucks
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RE: Letting Does Walk
I let them walk.... right into the sights of my gun.:D I have no problem what so ever taking does.
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RE: Letting Does Walk
In order to have a healthy herd, the buck:doe ratio has to be kept in check, so not shooting does really doesn't help grow bigger bucks, unless the ratio is way out of whack in favor of too many bucks, which i highly doubt is the case. Later in the season there may be some validity to the statement, as the mature does could be carrying the next booner, but even then too many does isn't good for the herd. This neighbor sounds like he has no clue about herd management. What it comes down to is that you were happy and so was the landowner, thats all that matters. unfortunately, the neighbor can do whatever he wants on his land, as long as he's following the law. might want to check in with this guy in 4-5 years and see how many big bucks he has on his property and how many basket racks he has hanging in the shed!
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RE: Letting Does Walk
Every knowledgable deer hunter knows you have to take some does. I personally don't like taking 1 1/2 yr. or older does later in the season. I don't want to take the chance of killing one that may be carrying fawns. I try to take my does in Oct. with bow and muzzleloader before the rut. I let a lot of does walk, which I'm sure most of you also do, but I don't let every single one walk. They taste too good to let them all walk.
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RE: Letting Does Walk
That guy's a dang idiot. You gotta take some does. Not only is it great herd management, they are also very tasty!
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RE: Letting Does Walk
If a buck has access to an adequate food supply, how does a high dow:buck ratio adversely affect the size of his rack?
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RE: Letting Does Walk
does are tasty.....
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RE: Letting Does Walk
Read the book "Quality Deer Management" by Charles Alsheimer. Its all explained in there
MI88 |
RE: Letting Does Walk
Have any of you guys ever raised cattle???
If you put 10 cows in a 50 acre pasture, you will have 10 healty cows...Up it to 20 and you will have 20 skinny cows... I'll bet a dollar that the neighbor owned less land than the acerage you were on...I've seen this many times... On our 3 farms we killed 44 deer this year, most were does...By killing does the bucks have more to eat and when the rut comes the bucks are out looking for does...If you have plenty of does the bucks don't have to go looking, they can stay in the thicket, you don't see them and won't kill them... |
RE: Letting Does Walk
I don't see what the difference is between taking them early or late. Sure if it's late they are probably bred, but if you take them early you are killing a doe that would have been bred later if you didn't. I don't see the difference. I like to take them early and late.
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RE: Letting Does Walk
When in doubt go with what your landowner says is ok with him, you can never go wrong that way.
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RE: Letting Does Walk
DING DING
NCHawkeye nailed it MI88 |
RE: Letting Does Walk
Where I hunt they have a doe season but I for one dont shoot them. I dont see any one elseshooting them either. To us here the does are our decoys. The more does we have the more the big bucks have to come and check out to bred.
I can say this past fall I see more bucks than does as well as high as 3:1.We can have bad winters. If a does is taken usually the fawn doesnt make it on its own so hence less deer. The yotes and wolves take there share so why take a doe. I did a count this fall on fawns as well and they were 2:1 in fav. of the bucks. I used a herd that was using my plot of 40+ deer. Bottom line I let the does walk |
RE: Letting Does Walk
Somebody here must know... if a buck has access to an adequate food supply, how does a high doe:buck ratio adversely affect the size of his rack? [align=right]
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RE: Letting Does Walk
Having more does does not effect the size of a bucks rack. Genetics does. Food supply with the proper protiens aids in the bucks growth of his rack.
A buck with a tough winter with the lack of food, must build his body up first come spring. So there is where a good food source counts such as a plot. My plots have a winter food supply that helps keep their bodies in better condition thus better rack growth come spring and summer. |
RE: Letting Does Walk
ORIGINAL: spikeman Having more does does not effect the size of a bucks rack. Genetics does. Food supply with the proper protiens aids in the bucks growth of his rack. A buck with a tough winter with the lack of food, must build his body up first come spring. So there is where a good food source counts such as a plot. My plots have a winter food supply that helps keep their bodies in better condition thus better rack growth come spring and summer. |
RE: Letting Does Walk
I dont believe that is correct at all. It takes norishment with good food to make anything bigger. Where Iam the deer grow big (Alberta) It takes good food source to do that, not how many does there are.
Another thing that has been noticed over the years is the weather??? A wet summer,or drought. That predicts the food supply...hence antler size My opinion |
RE: Letting Does Walk
They are saying that IF the population is too high, then that could affect the size of the bucks.
Let's say the carrying capacity of your land is 20 deer. With a balanced buck to doe ratio of 1:1 you would have 10 bucks and 10 does. The odds of some of those bucks reaching maturity is pretty good. That is typically the goal QDM, to allow bucks to reach maturity and to stay within the carrying capacity of the land. If you don't shoot does, let's say your buck to do ratio is 4:1. That leaves you with 4 bucks and 16 does. The odds of one of those bucks reaching maturity is much less than the previos scenario. Of course if you don't control the population at all your deer are going to over populate and the result is going to be malnourished undersized deer, both bucks and does. With a carrying capacity of 20 deer, I would rather have 10 bucks and 10 does than 4 bucks and 16 does. The way that happens is by shooting some does. |
RE: Letting Does Walk
This guy thinks like many of the old timers I know. Shoot a young buck but never shoot any Does. That comes from years ago when our Deer heard was just about wiped out by over killing, then it's passed on generation after generation. NO DOES!!!Every land owner has the right to decide what too shoot and what not to. We must respect their thoughts on this issue, even though we don't agree.
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RE: Letting Does Walk
ORIGINAL: npaden They are saying that IF the population is too high, then that could affect the size of the bucks. Let's say the carrying capacity of your land is 20 deer. With a balanced buck to doe ratio of 1:1 you would have 10 bucks and 10 does. The odds of some of those bucks reaching maturity is pretty good. That is typically the goal QDM, to allow bucks to reach maturity and to stay within the carrying capacity of the land. If you don't shoot does, let's say your buck to do ratio is 4:1. That leaves you with 4 bucks and 16 does. The odds of one of those bucks reaching maturity is much less than the previos scenario. Of course if you don't control the population at all your deer are going to over populate and the result is going to be malnourished undersized deer, both bucks and does. With a carrying capacity of 20 deer, I would rather have 10 bucks and 10 does than 4 bucks and 16 does. The way that happens is by shooting some does. |
RE: Letting Does Walk
In Iowa, during the 2006-2007 seasons, 60% of the deer shot were does. That is one reason why we have big bucks here. I always have a doe tag and reserve the any sex (antler) tag just in case.
If you are willing to shoot does, you are more likely to let little bucks pass. (Next year they may be big bucks.) I got my doe this year and my antler tag went unused. It was a great hunt. |
RE: Letting Does Walk
if you don't keep the does thinned out you may not see that big buck during the rut . genetics is a joke unless you have a fence around your property you will never control there genetics. hunting unfenced land you must hunt what happens along,the only thing you can do is make sure there is food and water on your hunting property. one thing i always do is to leave atleast one good thicket as a hidding place for deer,they need a place they feel safe day and night. i will hunt around it and NEVER go into it. after the deer learn this they will run straight to it when spooked and will not leave the property . if you have to many does early in the season is the best time to take them out,i love sticking a few with the crossbow before the rut. some of those old herd does are smarter then most of the bucks ,if you let them get old and smart they will hide out with the big bucks and you will never kill them.
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RE: Letting Does Walk
yummmm I have two packs of steaks off of a little doe marinating(sp?) right now...cant wait till saturday to eat them!
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RE: Letting Does Walk
ORIGINAL: isatarak I don't see what the difference is between taking them early or late. Sure if it's late they are probably bred, but if you take them early you are killing a doe that would have been bred later if you didn't. I don't see the difference. I like to take them early and late. |
RE: Letting Does Walk
if you are going to try to appease anyone other than yourself, it should be the owner of the land you hunt on. It sounds like your landowner is fine with does, so you should be too.
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RE: Letting Does Walk
ORIGINAL: Sylvan If a buck has access to an adequate food supply, how does a high dow:buck ratio adversely affect the size of his rack? |
RE: Letting Does Walk
ORIGINAL: superstrutter I personally don't like taking 1 1/2 yr. or older does later in the season. I don't want to take the chance of killing one that may be carrying fawns. I try to take my does in Oct. with bow and muzzleloader before the rut. |
RE: Letting Does Walk
Unfortunately, our region still has the "Cattle Rancher" mentality! One bull to 10 cows! Works fine for cattle, but not for deer. One thing is the bucks don't have to move to find does, so you don't see them. Most counties in our area have a 4 deer limit, with a maximum of 2 bucks. So if you kill your limit, you are still not thinning the herd of does to get the ratio right. Many leases in our area will let you kill 2 bucks and only one doe! So what is that doing for an already out of balance deer herd!#@%#@$. We would be much better off taking 2 does and one buck for a few years.But, it ain't gonna happen!Protect them mommas! Thats the way they have done it for over a hundred years, so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them to change!
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RE: Letting Does Walk
Have you ever seen a deer assembley line? Then how are bucks made? It comes down to being serious about your hunting, knowing your heards. If you really get out there and scout, mount trail cams, and check for signs you'll know or have a good idea of what you could take or shouldn't take. We cant give the insurance people what they would love to have(very few deer anywhere). Check your ratios best you can, watch fow how many does throw twins, how often are they buck doe combos? Do what the area needs for you to do not just what you want. AGE IS THE ULTIMATE ADVANTAGE. Pass the bucks up as often as possible. A true trophy is just like a classic car or bottle of wine, over coming the urge to splurge makes for greater rewards.
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RE: Letting Does Walk
That guy is a moron. Don't think twice about what he said. If he's shooting small six's and fours he's the one shootin himself in the foot. Too many does is not a good thing. And here in WV I don't think we will ever have too many bucks. Seems like everyone comes here to shoot one. Spike or otherwise!! All we can do is hope for antler restrictions or higher out of state license. Both would help.
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