Is Poaching okay when...
 

What is your view, is it okay to poach if your family is starving for the meat? You know your family is just barely scraping by to the next day and you badly need to feed your kids, so you go out at night spotlight and shoot a deer no one will ever find out, IS THAT POACHING, AND IF IT IS, IS IT ETHICAL?

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

A child starving from lack of food is never acceptable. Shooting an animal to provide for your family if times are really that hard, and there is no other way to get food,is acceptable in my book. Any one who believes other wise think if your kid was starving! I also think you would be hard pressed to find a person of the law who would enforce it in this situation. Read the opening letter on FHFH (Farmers and hunters feeding the hungry) the author tells of a lady loading up a road kill into her car. When he tells her that what she's doing is illegal she responds with that she doesn't care her kids are hungry. He ends up helping her field dress and load the deer into the car.

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

Bucky there have been times in this country where that was in my book an ethical excuse to poach, but I will be honest and say that in this day and age with the number of programs to help the poor and needy I would be hard pressed to have someone prove to me they "needed" to poach.

The Tazman aka Martin Price
Proud father of a Devil Dog

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

Taz and Bigamey are right, if the only way to feed my family was to poach, I'd do it. But like he said, there are so many places to get food these days where you shouldn't have to poach.
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Edited by - kshunter on 01/23/2003 13:31:19

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

There are many places to get food ,but having never been in that situation I don't believe I would be to quick to judge others who have been . Hunger can be here and now not in a couple of days when fat asp social worker gets to your case . Would you let your kids go hungry ,I think not .

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

thats kind of like wouldf you break the law to save your life. frankly if you are going to let your kids starve ill shoot the deer and bring it over

propmahn
save the world, reload your brass

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

Fine by me, there is a family that lives just off the property I gun hunt, 12 kids under 18 and probably not a grade 6 education in the whole house. They make maybe $10,000 a year for the whole family!

I know they take a doe or 2 illegally every year. I actually talked to the GW a couple years ago after he went and dropped off a road kill for them. He said yep Moggy was pretty shocked,, he was cleaning an untagged deer when I walked in. I took a look at it and asked if he wanted another one! Local GW's know who is poaching to survive!

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

I agree with all of ya's I was just curious how you all would react, thanks for your input.

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

It's called survival! My grandparents had to do it practically their whole lives in northern Wisconsin. Alot of the less fortunate that live up north still do to this day. Jobs are few and far between up there. From what I've seen , the game wardens look the other way when it involves the locals who are feeding their families. From what I was told by my granddad and a few aquaintances from up north , they hunt during the day just like you or I and shoot the first deer they see , buck or doe. The majority of spotlight hunters are after trophy racks. Thats poaching!



Edited by - bowfanatic on 01/23/2003 20:02:53

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

If you live in an urban setting, as mentioned their are many agencies, food banks..ways to obtain food for your family. If kids are the reason many schools have programs to feed kids while at school...so like mention now a days I don't see the need to poach for survival. However if you live in rural, secluded areas where these programs are not readily available that would be different.

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

i think its ok...just dont take more than you need and dont shoot big bucks and brag about it later...just try to get back on your feet and dont make a habit of poaching....

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

Playing devil's advocate: when does it stop becoming survival and become poaching. Almost anyone can go on welfare or go to food banks. It it were an aboriginal it is granted as their way of life. If it is anyone else there must be a line ($10,000, 20, 30 etc. per year) where they didn't have to poach. If I run out of money one month can I fill my freezer? Does it make a difference if it's on my own property?

Dan O.

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

I think anyone but a peta freak would agree that hunting for survival of yourself and family is ok.

"Hey ya'll, watch this"

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RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

I'll say something and it will be unpopular but I don't care.lol If I ever fall on hard times and I'm having a hard time feeding my family I will have no problem killing a deer out of season and I will do this long before I ever go get a free handout. I think game laws are there for a good reason and I follow them. However, I do not believe that when game laws were written, anyone ever intended to keep someone from killing an animal to feed their family. The laws were written to help the animal population structure.

Again, I don't hunt out of season and have no desire to, but if I fall on hard times, I'd do it in a New York minute and never feel guilty for a minute.

--------------------------------------------
Hunting the Piney Woods of Deep East Texas.

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

None of us wouldn't.

BUT - most of us would take steps - so that we did not HAVE to.

I forgot to say that it would be UNETHICAL to let your kids starve - when you could do something about it.

There is no debate here - its pretty simple really.


Edited by - farm hunter on 01/23/2003 22:04:56

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

HMM, if it meant starvation I probably would.Then again just look at all the road kill animals you see dailey. Anything from Coons to deer.I picked up a huge doe on Saturday and it will feed people for months.Did not have to poach it,just pick it up.

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

This is why there is hunting, hunting started as a way to feed your family. I believe it would be fine I know a couple of families that do it. They kill the animal and use it no waste so it is not unethical. They are proud people and don't like government handouts, so whats wrong with them saving the tax payers a couple of $$$. As far as the GW giving tickets well I've seen it go both ways. Some of the old timers don't mind they know that people fall on hard times. Some of the whipersnapers think they have something to prove by beating someone when they're already down.

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

I think the problem is the area you loive in would have to be so extremelly remote for it to be justified.

Otherwise it would make more sense to steal from the grocery store, of course that would not be ok either.

I have never ran across a poacher that was "truly" doing so to feed the family. Most cases it is being done because "my daddy did it and his daddy did it", no matter how poor the individual may be at the time.

So I guess that if this was the only possible source of food then maybe, but if any otehr alternatives exist then no.

Jim

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http://www.huntinginga.com

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

My uncle was a part time GW and full time dog warden in the Northern Neck of Va. in the 50's, 60's, & 70's. There were a few families that were poorer than dirt, my uncle and the full time GW knew they poached, but as someone else said, these folks did it to eat, they fished, crabbed, oystered, and poached to get by. My uncle and the GW would drop off road kill that were fit to eat all the time, I went with my uncle once to drop one off and he gave the lady a wink and said "This should save Ron some shells for a while" she grinned a sheepish grin and thanked him a lot!

The Tazman aka Martin Price
Proud father of a Devil Dog

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

Ok maybe if the kids are absolutely starving and the roads are snowed shut with no end to the storm in sight. But then again if it was that bad outside chances are they couldn't go out to poach anyways.

There are just too many programs with the United Way, Salvation Army, Free school lunch programs, etc. It isn't the fact that it is a temporary solution to their hunger which bothers me it is the fact that they are barely scraping by to the next day is a situation that needs the attention. If they are in that bad shape imagine about the rest of the kids welfare and safety.

If they can drive around and spotlight they could easily go to the local food bank or to an organization to get some food & help. I am sure a lot of hunters would chip in, if someone said hey I know this family that has fallen on some hard times and needs some food that most would throw some of their harvest or even some other support their way. Poaching is never neccessary or ethical.

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

cableguy the folks I was talking about down home didn't even own a car, they did their poaching during the day, the clothes thier kids were wearing were given to them by a lot of different families and most of their staples were given to them also. One of these families had the dad in prison for bootlegging, it was one of the few skills he had and he had been locked up over the years numerous times, he was the bum, his wife and kids suffered because of him, the parents are dead now and the kids are all doing pretty well considering the start in life they got. Ronnie said he hates venison, rabbit and squirrel now because that was the only meat they had growing up!

The Tazman aka Martin Price
Proud father of a Devil Dog

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

Cableguy119 The people I am refering(sp) to don't like to take hand outs. They would rather supply for themselfs then ask other people to do thinks for them. They are physically fit not finacially fit, so I see nothing wrong with what they are doing. They are only taking what they need the only way they know how.

Let me ask this if the government only told us we could only eat out of our gardens for two weeks a year would that be ok?

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

Yea right,just go on welfare.I know a guy who wouldn't do that unless he couldn't hunt and the kids,8,were starving.He works also and the kids eat just fine.I make sure his freezer is full also.Hard times hit him and now he is getting on his feet without a handout from anybody.Nothing to hang his head about as far as I can see.

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

This is a tough one. I don't have a problem with those in need taking deer any way they can. I do have a problem with those who think they can do what they want because they won't get off there ass to get a job. The I'm to proud to take this or that or work for him is hog wash. If your family is starving suck up the pride and get them fed. There are plenty of aid resources available EVERYWERE.

I do well but there are days I have to kiss ass to stay employed. It goes with the turf if you want to keep a job. Starving your family because you have pride should be a capitol offense. Poaching isn't the answer.

One Shot One Kill Striper Phil

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

Striper Phil I'm glad you live in a world were everthing can be answered by kissing butt and good jobs. Not everyone lives in your world. The people I'm talking about are farmers there farms aren't very big. They sometimes have a rough run of luck. they bust there a$$es to keep there property and keep there kids clothed etc... They work a heck of alot harder then most. they take a deer or 2 just so they can have meat. I think they have every reason to have pride they work long hours and are sh## on by society. At one time this country was run by farmers.

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

Heck! Where I used to live poaching was a way of life. Not everybody
did it but I would say %50 of the folks who hunted poached. They would
claim they needed the meat yet drive around in $20000 trucks.

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

I dont understand some of these people that say "just too lazy to get off theyre ass". Well im sorry but the area I am talking about is basicly boonie land. These people use an outhouse year round, have a pump well, and only burn wood for heat!

The only work is on small cattle ranches(how much work can there be when a couple farmers are grazing 50 cattle on a 1000 acres???), and logging,, well logging is done with big machinery and you only need 2 or 3 people for that!

Have you seen the price of groceries in some of these boonie land places?? I am not kidding you when I say 1 single chicken breast costs around $5, a below average T-bone is in the $12-13 range, and a pound of burger will run you $4! Now you just think how many meals a couple deer can give these people!

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

I feel that in certain parts of the country under certain circumstances, it would be acceptable (although not legal). But in My area it is NOT! Things are alot different here now than they were 30 years ago. I grew up in farm country, and a lot of small family farmers were really hurting in the early 70's. I knew of many deer being taken out of season, but it was for a good cause. Very little income, and MANY mouths to feed. Now, nearly all of the farms are either sold off or no longer farmed for profit, and I know of no children in the area that are starving from lack of income.

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

"At one time this country was run by farmers."
I wish it still was, we would prolly be a hell of a lot better off.

As for the question. I dont think that in that situation, poaching would be wrong. Of cource our GM for Fairfield county wouldnt see it that way. He had a buddy of mine almost in a heap of trouble. He shot a deer, field dressed it, rolled it in a ditch to keep it from being stolen, was walking to his 4wd to go pick up the deer, and was met at his truck by Levi. Was gonna write him up for shooting a deer and leaving it. He sat with binoculars and watched the hunt. WHY WOULD HE FIELD DRESS IT TO LEAVE IT YOU RETARD!!!!!!!!

Sorry, off topic. Poaching is fine under those circumstances.

&quot;A Country Boy Can Survive&quot; </IMG>

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

Well I can tell you from personal experiance that if you have to do it to feed the family it's okay.My father had been laid off from the mines and when we needed food he would go out in the woods and shoot a animal didn't matter what it was,we ate.He always told me that the lord put them on earth to sustain us,his children.He felt guilty for doing it but he had to do what was right for the family.And I would also like to say growing up like that,makes you remember where you come from.And i would do the same thing if I had to.My family will not go hungry.

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

My my my but how things change. If I didn't know any better I would have sworn I was on a different BBS, but since this is the only one I go to it must be true. This same question was asked a while back, maybe a year or so ago. I saidback then what I believed then and still do now and was jummped all over by some who had to get on their soap box and make their total disgust for poaching under any situation known. One went so far as to say I should sell my weapons to feed my family if it came to eat or go hungry because of lack of food. A fine short term answer but when the money and food are gone what am I going to sell next. Now before I get everyone thinking I poach to feed my family let me say that is not the case at this time. I have a very good job for our area and I do not see any reason for me to poach. Michigan has had a very liberal bag limit in effect to crop the deer herd down for the last couple years and I also shoot deer during the summer months for farmers with a ton of crop damage. As you can guess my freezer is always full of venison, as well as the freezers of a lot of other folks. I was raised in an area her in the U.P. were people really thought deer season opened July 4th. It is really sad to see all the poaching going on and I mean &quot;poaching&quot;. Poeple shooting deer to sell in bars not to feed their families, but to feed their addictions. Some of these guys have been caught in sting operations at least half a dozen times or more. Nothing ever happens with them as they have nothing and the warden says they are just trying to feed their families. I have been blessd with a gift of knowledge of the outdoors and of game and how to harvest it. Let me just say as I believe in my heart everybody on this board would do the same, as long as I can hunt my family will never starve.

LIVE TO HUNT,HUNT TO LIVE.

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

We talk about it being sad that people are starving and need to poach to feed their families but in a lot of cases the opposite is happening. It's one thing to shoot a deer when times are bad. I have a couple near me that are in their fifties. They live about a mile off the plowed road. The man is retired because he doesn't need or want to work. He shoots deer, etc. for his food, heats his home with wood, farms a bit, gardens a bit and still enjoys his ATV and 4x4. To me that's poaching to excess. It sounds like a great lifestyle but the guy and his friends have such a great system set up that the warden hasn't been able to catch him.

Dan O.

Edited by - dan o. on 02/10/2003 07:28:31

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

In the case of this question poaching may be ok. It would not be ok if it got to the point where someone was just doing it because the frezzer is empty and the person does not want to spend any more money than they have to. really a person should not have to poach for food with all the food programs out there. I also feel that if a person if that bad off mabey if the person had a neighbor that would be willing to help them out with the food situation would also be logical.

If one person is to poach that means all people will follow.

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

That is a tricky question. It all depends on the cicumstances! If you live in the middle of nowwhere and you can't get any help? I think it would be sensible. Still it all depends on the circumstances! peace.

bowhuntingfool

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

I wasn't really interested in answering this question but as I read all the responses......

I don't agree with any form of poaching in the US. We are not a third world country. We have many other options. And if people are to lazy to find these options than they are poaching. There are reasons for laws and that is to keep everyone on the same level. No laws and I would not like living in the US.

I think I am addicted to this creature...

RE: Is Poaching okay when...
 

You would have to live way out in the boonies to make it ethical.

&quot;Pain is weakness leaving the body&quot;