When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

Found out a large outfitter is leasing up ground in my county and surrounding counties. I never cared much for oufitters, but paid little attention because they were always farther away. Now that they lease land not too far away, and are hitting up area farmers in a 4 county area........I have even less use for them. Am I venting? Yes. In the name of providing a service to NR hunters hoping to kill a big buck, its actually nothing more than 3 guys lining their pockets. And yes they are making damn good money. How else could they afford to place ads on the internet and in magazines and have their own website. But what I really am wondering is how many hunters lost a place to hunt when an outfitter came in and took over?[:@]

Am I cutting my throat here.....probably, but I hate outfitters.

RE: When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

I'm a outfitter in South Dakota and I want to tell you about the other side of the story. It does sound different than what you are running into but here goes. I am a seventh generation rancher and the majority of our income is from cattle and horses. We have wild mule deer, Whitetail deer, antelope, turkey, and some upland game on the ranch so why not take advantage of that and outfit? I do not go around leasing up every ranch I can but I do have arrangements with some local ranchers to hunt there place on a per animal bases and the land owner is welcome to have whoever he wants hunt the land that they own as well. This arrangement seems to be working very well and the other ranchers are very pleased with the extra income that they might get from the wildlife just like I am. I do take limited number of buck hunters but if some average Joe knocks on my door and wants to get some does for the freezer I never turn them down and actually take my time to go show them good locations for a opportunity. Plain and simple what I'm trying to say it is not all Outfitters are bad and taking up all of the land like you are generalizing them to do. As a matter of fact all of my antelope hunters have filled and gone home so I have contacted the local Game Warden and told him if he runs into anybody having trouble finding antelope to give me a call and so far this year I have helped several people out and they are more than thankful for my offer. We are not all bad when it comes to outfitters.

RE: When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

Them damn guides are terrible here in Minnesota as well with bear hunting. They don't even lease the land were hunting (State land) but they sure think they own it. We've been bear hunting in this particular area for 25 years, we were the first ones in this area, now 5 or 6 different guide's are in there and there trying to run us out but they ain't getting that lucky! These guide licenses should cost a couple grand and then maybe we wouldn't have so many around!

RE: When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

Need more like you!:)

RE: When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

I feel yaman, I never cared either until one day the landowner we hunt off of called us and told us there was some new arrangements. He had around 300 acres of prime "deer country" and an outifitter came in and bought half of it. Split itright down the middle. It really sucked because my dad's stand just happened to be 10 yards across the property line and he had killed very nice bucks out of it every year and they were all coming from the side that the Outifitter bought.

I can not believe the prices. 2000+ for a buck hunt, "Unguaranteed" at that. 1500 for a freakin shed hunt!!!!!! During a two week period, this guy brought in twelve hunters!!! 12x2,000= 24,000!!!! They didn't kill anything worth bragging about though

While it ticks me off when I think about it, there was only one positive from the whole thing. When he came in he tilled up a weed patch that held an amazing amount of deer- thats no good, but he turned it into a food plot. So now, I hunt the routes on my side of the property that lead to his food plot. While Im still a few hundred yards away from his property, I still get a kick out of knowing that Im harvesting the deer that he is spending all kinds of money to feed.

I also get a kick out of knowing that there are all these guys out there paying thousands to hunt the same land that I pay 40 bucks to hunt. I dont know, I just wish there was some way to keep so many people from doing it. Like a limit on the land bought or something. Before we know its going to be all outfitted. I read an article once talking about how rapidly people were getting into outfitting- it was unbelievable.

RE: When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

Unless you and your family owns a nice chunk of land to hunt you need to go ahead and start leasing the land yourself or you won't have anywhere to hunt. Farmers and ranchers need to have all the income they can get to to pay land taxes and help with other expenses.

RE: When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

Yes but unless we are going to guide ourselves we will be outbid by the guides and the wealthy. Sooner or later there will be only 2 kinds of hunters the wealthy and the poachers!!! When it gets to that I dont have a problem being the poacher.

RE: When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

That's happening quite a bit down in richland county too. One of my cousins just leased out a big piece of his land that several folks hunted. Of course, that's his right and his business. Its just sad to see POSTED signs going up all over the place where once a person could walk 4 miles without seeing one.
I'm lucky in that i bought a nice little piece of land a few years ago that is good for deer, turkey, and squirrels. But then again, if someone waved enough money in my face, i might start singing a much different tune.[8D]

RE: When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

Look guys you can't blame the outfitters to me thats like blaming the taxidermist ....all their trying to do is feed their family's and do something they love to do ...personally I blame the Bill Jordans ...Jackie Bushmans ...Mike Waddells of the hunting world ...they have SO publicized HUNTING with their TV shows that NOW EVERYONE wants to get that MONSTER buck ....which fuels theoutfitters with clients...supply and demand is the key and ALL these @#$%^ TV shows are mostly to blame IMHO

dd

RE: When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

:D:D:D
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO D.D. ole buddy, ol friend, ole pal does this mean your idea for a show is
now KIBOSHED?
Hopefuully ya change your mind and get it going...
I agree with the fact everybodies into killing a big rack bucks but I don't think its because of shows, I personally think its because thses bucks offer huge returns in money, endorcements to the average hunter..
One can basically become a celeb over night...Hence the reason we now have not just the Boone and Crocket record book / Pope and Young but we have the SCI standandrd as well amongst others.....
I mean even replica racks of record breakingungultes are selling in the thousands of dollars......
My great uncle from England came over to visit my Dad and my uncles, and was telling us, our mounts that we have in our house (no intention of getting rid of at any cost) would go for thousands of CANADIAN dollars, and not one of themNETTED theofficial B&C min although a few gross over andcame close..
Even antler sheds are going at a high price went to a custom furniture shop outside of town, and a bench seat framed from moose and elk and elk antlers was selling for $2000:D:D
Antler chandiliers not much less.. :D
These things sell and sell fast and he makes a crap load of money doing it......
With all racks I got, I'm thinking maybe I should attempt to fabricate some furniture up and selling it at a 1500% percent mark-up........:D
Bottem line all this stuff makes for people looking for animals with big racks..
If you can't make money by shooting a new world record, you can make money making furniture...
But getting back to the piont, I havn't lost my place to guide outfitters yet, but I have talked to them,
and they are under extreme amount of pressure to produce big animals with big racks for their clients..
I am good friends with many.....
It is happening More so now than ever before , and I can honestly tell you, it ain't a fun job and honestly I think I'd hate hunting pretty fast if Iwere one..

RE: When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

What is land being leased for in your area. We have been paying $7 to $10 for years in our area. Maybe you partially answered your problem. Lease a nice tract of land from a neighbor or family member and sell a few day hunts to help offset the cost of the lease. A club I was in did that each year and charged $350 per hunter per day, no lodging or meals included. It helped out a lot and wasn't a big inconvenience.

RE: When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: Jeff Ovington

:D:D:D
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO D.D. ole buddy, ol friend, ole pal does this mean your idea for a show is
now KIBOSHED?
Hopefuully ya change your mind and get it going...
I agree with the fact everybodies into killing a big rack bucks but I don't think its because of shows, I personally think its because thses bucks offer huge returns in money, endorcements to the average hunter..
One can basically become a celeb over night...Even antler sheds are going at a high price went to a custom furniture shop outside of town, and a bench seat framed from moose and elk and elk antlers was selling for $2000:D:D
Antler chandiliers not much less.. :D
These things sell and sell fast and he makes a crap load of money doing it......


/quote]

Jeff can you JUST imagine what an EXPLOSION of interest it would cause if ME ..DOCTOR DEATH where to have his own TV show ...nope for the good of the sport Ive decided to stay out of the hunting show business ;).....I agree with you that BIG Bucks can return BIG $$$ but why is that ..think about it ...20 years ago it wasent this way ...its only became this way over the last 15 or so years when all the TV shows started the BIG buck CRAZE ....who in the WORLD 20 years ago would have thought a 24hr a day 7 days a week OutdoorTV channel could servive but The Outdoor Channel is doing just that ...Ray Scott started it all with Bass Masters ...then Jackie Bushman with Buck Masters ... if you want to achive "overnight fame" there has to be a vehicle to get you there and its BIG BUCK TV ...... 20 years ago if you took a nice buck you might become a hero (something I have to live with everyday) locally but that was it ...but now with the inter net ....BIG BUCK TV... those same bucks have become a commodity ...I was told by a local hunter who films for Knight and Hale that for every kill he gets on video of a buck over 130 that its worth $5000.00 ..... that aint chump change and NOW most EVERYONE up here has their own video camera .... just look at all the hunsband and wife teams popping up .... deer hunting as we knew it as kids is sadly LONG AZZ GONE !!

dd

RE: When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

Well to be honest I'm leasing up all the good land I can right now. Difference is we take kids up to age 17 hunting and don't charge anything.
I've had guys that wanted to hunt there but I've turned them down. I can't afford someone being there that I don't know about and then take a kid out to hunt.

Not more than 4 years ago I had more land than I could handle for FREE! I had good relationships with landowners (I thought) but then the lease booming era came about and I lost a ton of land almost overnight. Every lease around here is trying to grow big bucks (isn't going to happen much here in my area) but these guys are convinced that if they buy XXXX seed and use XXXX fertilizer and XXXXX implements on their XXXX atv's, they too can grow 300" bucks in 2 or 3 years. And kill a doe? Heaven's no! They attract bucks after all, therefore they are sacred.
I've asked to small game hunt these lands and was turned down because I might spook a buck into the next lease! Geesh.

And lease's around here have went from $4.00/acre average to $17.00+/acre average. What a crock.

RE: When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

Yeah, that's a big problem. People don't want to allow small game hunting because they think that an early september squirrel hunt will ruin the Oct. 1 bow hunting. It doesn't bother me. You could do a morning squirrel hunt on my land, then shoot a deer that same evening.

RE: When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

Reading over these replies, I can see both sides of the story. Fact is, the majority of hunters in this country are not wealthy (or anywhere close to it), so we are forced to hunt pubic land. So it is a verys pecial treat when we are fortunate enough to scrape together enough cash and meet that right farmer/rancher that will let us hunt his land and get a little peace of mind. It just sucks when those who don't care so much up the stakes and wave big $$$ in their face to give them a change of heart, especially after a deal has already been made.

Again, not to say all outfitters are douchebags...just most (kidding!). But I don't think they are hosting many actual hunters as much as rich kids with guns who just want to bag that next world record animal. That brings it into a whole new realm, hell, they're not even hunters. They don't care about the meat, some don't care about the experience, they complain about amenities when in the field and most of em couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from the inside!

I have to agree that soon hunting will become more of a rich man's game than it already is and when Rabidhunter said "Sooner or later there will be only 2 kinds of hunters the wealthy and the poachers!!!" he wasn't kidding. It's really a testament of who really holds the power here in America. Really sucks though.

Hey, I have an idea...lets all sneak onto the Tecomate Ranch this fall, all at once and go haywire! There's no way they're gonna kick 100,000+ armed hunters off their land, HA!

RE: When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

Ahhhhhhh I think Jeff would understand that LOL ...thats what MOST rednecks I know would do :D

dd

RE: When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

Just have to share my opinion!

I go to Illinois every year to bowhunt but I never use an outfitter and I always hunt private land. It's usually a farmer who wants to manage his deer population a little and at the same time supplement his income! I do my own scouting, stand set-up, deer processing, and I find my own lodging and food. There is actually a group of us who do this. We are not rich but working class folks with working class incomes, but we do not mind paying for the privilege to hunt the whitetails that we love to hunt. At the same time, we get to help a farmer with his deer harvest and we don't mind taking plenty of does too. And yes we do have buck opportunites too, but the hunting experience is what we are all about. Our experieces are great ones and I for one will do this as long as I can afford to do so. It just plain fun!

I for one would not hunt with a full-service outfitter because their prices are not for me and I don't have as much control over the methods and the stand locations. I want to do the work and reap the rewards.

I hate it for the local hunters who want to hunt and are losing their properties to outfitters, but at the same time I believe that it is an outfitters right to grow his business and be successful. It is also your right as a hunter to 'beat the bushes' and seek out new hunting spots should you lose one. Thats what I do. Also, times are changing and hunters who truly love to hunt willfind a way to get property access, even if they have to pay to secure it. Maybe prices will run folks out of hunting, I don't know. I really don't think that in the long run, the prices that outfitters are getting will be sustainable though.

Bottom line...if you love deer hunting you will hunt and you will find a way to make your hunts successful and affordable and fun, no matter what income level you might be.

RE: When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

I dunno, I enjoy living close to cabellas. :eek:

RE: When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

I might be up for the Tecomate party once old Jeffy and the good ol boys tell me I cant hunt a deer in the state I live in. I think if you are an outfitter and you lease land in a state so that you can sell "your" wears to the out of staters at insane prices that you should have to pay a higher state tax on your hunts and the land owners that your leasing from or paying tresspass fees or trophey fees or what ever should also if they dont open 50% atleast to the general RESIDENT public. If they dont then the extra tax money goes to state leases or to purchace more public hunting land. Hopefully this is only a fad and it will all go away and we can get back to just huntin!!

RE: When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

I just really don't like the idea of being the one to beat the bushes, and harvest a couple decent animals just so the outfitters can look in and say "Okay, well that seems to be a good area, I'll go ahead and snatch that up," reaping my elbow grease, just to push me along like an annoying pest after I've done all the work.

Plus, most outfitters' prices are not reasonable and provide plenty of profit, not to mention having to tip the guides on top of the hunt fee, tags, licenses and trophy fee. It's ridiculous.

If I can hunt a given property for $1k a year and am not making any money on it, I don't think its right for an outfitter to come in, offer $2k/year and make $30k off of it in a year--off of one of his properties.

Business ethics be damned, being punished for not being rich is just not right.

RE: When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

Outfitters sooner or later will outbid any of us who might have a lease. Just NO way we will be able to compete with them, and the big money they have available. The only way most of us will be able to hunt private land is if we were to own it. I just don't say any other way. Even if it is a small parcel of land I would highly recommend that we all try buying some in the near future before prices go even higher because that will be our one and only hope of assuring ourselves of a place to hunt in the future.

RE: When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

Unfortunately, many folks (including me) were spending their money on everything but land. By the time that most noticed that there was much less access to land, it had gotten too expensive for many to buy. 15 years ago when it was $800 an acre, you could have bought a nice piece for the price of a new pick-up truck. But now its $2000 or much much more and is out of reach for most folks, unless they really save, go deep in debt, or sell off lots of expensive toys.

RE: When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

If I did that, I'd be doing exactly what I am against.;)

Though I am not crazy about leasing........I have nothing against a hunter paying a farmer for the rights to hunt if that is what it takes to have a place to hunt. I've not had to do that, but for how much longer I will have places for my son and I to hunt....who knows.

DD....I understand what you are saying, but these three guys who are running their operation are not poor by any means. In fact they farm quite a bit of ground, run a bird hunting operation(pen raised birds ranging from quail, pheasant, and chuckar), and for the last few years have expanded into deer. In fact in '05 a couple guys from the Wild Outdoors hunting show both shot nice bucks within minutes of each other.

RE: When an outfitter is close by, it makes you think differently
 

I dont like the outfitters that do that eitherand when they are charging what they are charging they are doing more then trying to feed their families. Greed is more like it.I know what its all about because my friend used to guideand he didnt charge a huge chunk of money. He got what he needed to get by and that was that. $500.00 a week for deer, $650.00 for bear.After taxes and expenses its not that much in his pocket.. But where he made out was filling his lodge every week of the season. He just loved being out there doing that stuff. What better job then doing what you love. It is a lot of work Ill give them that but when they push people off land theyve hunted for years thats where you start to get P.O.