mbruizer187

DWS178
Why don't you start a new thread so this guy don't think I'm still trying to bash him.

Your high fence theory you have, to make yourself feel better about what you do is your prerogative. The fact is that the deer cant leave your property so you have the choice of when they can be killed and by whom unlike allot of other hunter, but like you said its legal so do it, more power to you. (are your deer allowed to be entered into the record books? (if not, why not its all legal).

Supplemental protein, ya it helps your deer grow to there TRUE potential, just like all the kids that play football and take their protein supplements 1 min they are 145 lbs next min the are 230 lbs and full of muscle mass, MUST have been what there full potential was huh, even if no one else in there family weighs over 170 lbs,(STRANGE).

I do not believe your ranch looks like a game farm, not by any means, never said there was a guarantee of scoring a buck but there is a guarantee that if you don't want to hunt it yetit won't be hunted. And the fact that allot of these guys use helicopters for SURVEYS (scouting) you know which part of this BIG 7,000 acre property they live(not exact but the area so that knocks a couple thousand acres off this needle in a haystack theory)

This is not a bash, but please stop trying to make everything sound like it is the same as you coming up here and trying to hunt the Adirondacks. When Professional athletes cant use steroids to get ridiculously huge what do they use? Protein supplements?

dws178

Your argument does not follow.

Number 1.) What does it matter if a deer can be entered into the record books? I have never entered a deer contest, nor will I. I have killed a B&C deer on FREE RANGING property (not a purchased hunt if thats what you are wondering), and Iwill not enter it into the books. When it comes down to it, it don't give two $h*ts about having my name on a plaque. That does not raise my self confidence or boost my ego. Just because we have the choice of who hunts our ranch, unlike alot of other hunters as you state, does not make it utterly wrong. Also chief, the record books are not the law.

2.) No deer, or human for that matter,can exceed its genetic potential. Potential is what something is CAPABLE of becoming. Also, deer are not people and therefore should not be treated as such. Even if you would like to take that stance in the argument, it still makes no sense. Damn near every athlete takes those evil protein supplements, yet they are still allowed to enter the record books. So what exactly was your point?

3.) What is the problem with knowing where a buck lives? Do you not search for rubs and scrapes or shed antlers? Do you not scout before the season starts? In addition, helicopter surveys are usually intended to gather data about population numbers and buck to doe ratios, not simply locating where bucks live. You can do that in a much more economical fashion.

4.) I agree that it is not the same as hunting the Adirondacks. Why would it be? We are in Texas, a very different part of the country. We have one of the largest whitetail herds in the country; deer are not a scarcity. They are actually overpopulated in many places, as they are throughout much of the country. If you are trying to make the point that deer that consume proper nutrition are illegitimate in the record books, are you crazy? Do you think that the bucks that grace the top lines of the all-important record books did not consume proper nutrition? They do not grow 300 inches of antler on a 5% protein diet, I assure you.

I realize you are not bashing. You are debating, but your argument lacks a logical foundation.

mbruizer187

I don't hunt for records either, that don't matter to me, but the point was that there must be a reason that those deer couldn't be entered. They must think that there is some sort of advantage to it(as in no other hunting pressure and what not, and letting them get huge without some weekend hunter coming and taking it). Actually I'm done here, please don't respond, I explained my original bash and am done arguing over non-sense.

bawanajim

What is so hard to understand that a deer in a highfence is no different than a cow in a low fence. Neither can leave.

Marko B

I've hunted deer in Canada with no fences that had one heck of a lot less chance of getting away from me than any of the deer on my ranch do.

And if you want to use the cow analogy... every antelope killed on a ranch with goat wire that is entered in the record bookis behind escape proof fenceing... Antelope go under fences... they don't jump them.That would cut down the number of "legitimate" B&C Antelope by what... 50%? No one wants to talk about that.

It's an eliteist argument that doesn't make any sense, especially when people's complaint about it is that deer on a HF can't be killed by anyone ELSE and it gives the landowner an unfair advantage to let deer walk...

Since when does fair chase have anything to do with opportunities for ANY hunter to kill the animal?

It's about the animal's ability to evade.

You want the hunter entry affidavit for a deer to B&C?

I. Spotting or herding game from the air, followed by landing in its vicinity for the purpose of pursuit and shooting;
II. Herding or chasing with the aid of any motorized equipment;
III. Use of electronic communication devices to guide hunters to game, artificial lighting, electronic light intensifying devices (night vision optics), sights with built-in electronic range-finding capabilities, thermal imaging equipment, electronic game calls or cameras/timers/motion tracking devices that transmit images and other information to the hunter;
IV. Confined by artificial barriers, including escape-proof fenced enclosures;
V. Transplanted for the purpose of commercial shooting;
VI. By the use of traps or pharmaceuticals;
VII. While swimming, helpless in deep snow, or helpless in any other natural or artificial medium;
VIII. On another hunter’s license;
IX. Not in full compliance with the game laws or regulations of the federal government or of any state, province, territory, or tribal council on reservations or tribal lands;

I) No more Piper Cubs for Polar Bears... most of the bears in their record book werestill killedthat wayanyway.

II) No cars, atvs etc can be used in the harvest of your animal, period. How many deer don't qualify because of that? Even if it's legal to use a car in your area to shoot out of... on your own property and you are driving along and see something... it doesn't qualify.

III) This is my favorite... All of these cameras? Cuddybacks etc etc? If you find a deer on one of these cameras and go kill it? According to B&C this deer is just as tainted as any deer behind a high fence.

IV) Nothing new here

V and VI) They could just leave these in and get rid of the HF rule... this is really what makes people angry...

VII) Tell that to Native Americans... You just took two of their favorite ways to harvest game away from them.

VIII) Perfectly legal to party hunt in many parts of the country... but it's not ethical according to this...

IX)Understandable

So anyway... there you have it...

cjwink

I grew up hunting in South Texas and know that all deer in South Tx, In fact wehunted right outsideFreer.. Deer in this area typically have wide racks and low body weights. Just the way it is. I now live in MS and it is strange to see the different racks from around the state. This is because MS imported deer from other states in the 40's and 50's. In fact some came from Tx. And if you look at the area of the state those deer where imported from they have the same rack confiqurations as you see from South Tx.

As far as the high fences go. The place we hunted on was 200 acres bordered by a 11,000 acre ranch. About 10 years after we hunted it they put up a high fence. We saw lots of big bucks on the other side of the fence but they sure didn't want to have anything to do with us. The only part about the high fence that urked us was that they drove the deer over there with a helicopter before putting up the fence. Killed our hunting for about 3-4 years..

Steve863

Well, PETA and similar groups won't ever like ANY form of hunting, but surely high fenced hunting has not helped the hunters image in their eyes or the eyes of most non-hunters in the least! Yeah, some high fence operations are on large tracts of land, but correlations will always be made with the videos of hunters shooting game in much smaller confines by most people, even hunters. Whether it is right or wrong to make such correlations is up to you guys who hunt and operate high fenced areas to defend. Most hunters who have not hunted in such places really have no way of defending it since they can't know everything that happens during a hunt on it. Since some of these ranches use helicopters to do game surveys who is to say that they can't fly a helicopter over it for some high paying customers to pinpoint where some of the best trophies are and then rush the guide along with the hunter to the vicinity? Yes, I know it wouldn't be a guarantee that they will then see the animal, but since the animal IS confined and can't get out, their odds ARE a bit better than someone attempting something similar on non-fenced property. When BIG money starts to talk, ethics along with most things go right out the window!

mtfreezer

I am not going to touch the high fence arguement, but i do have something to add to this. Antelope can and do jump fence. I wouldn't have believed it unless I saw it with my own eyes. On Sept. 8th, I saw a group of 3 goats jump a 3 wire fence not more than 200 yards from me. It wasn't a tall fence. Only about 3 feet or so tall, but it enough to hold in cattle.

What the heck..I will add to the high fence talk. I have stacked deer that have traveled well over a mile and a half without them knowing I was there and deer have been know to travel well over 50 miles in search of new territory. Your deer can not leave. That is why people do not like high fence. I don't have a problem with it other than it gives hunters a black eye with none hunters.

coolbrze0

Flat out amazing!!!

Schobs

I wasnt gonna chime in on this topic, me and my roomate have been having quite a laugh about it for the last half an hour, but the statement about the game cameras is just an ignorant misunderstanding on your part.

III. Use of electronic communication devices to guide hunters to game, artificial lighting, electronic light intensifying devices (night vision optics), sights with built-in electronic range-finding capabilities, thermal imaging equipment, electronic game calls or cameras/timers/motion tracking devices that transmit images and other information to the hunter;


III) This is my favorite... All of these cameras? Cuddybacks etc etc? If you find a deer on one of these cameras and go kill it? According to B&C this deer is just as tainted as any deer behind a high fence.

DEVICES THAT TRANSMIT IMAGES AND OTHER INFORMATION TO THE HUNTER!!! are you kidding me? I've heard of one game camera that transmits photos to the owner and its like $900 for the setup. all the other cameras merely capture photos and images of deer and w/e else walks in front of them (probably not too big of a problem on your "intensely managed property") and store them for later viewing. As for the hunting with helicopters and airplanes, I know that in some areas up north (canada or alaska) there is a rule that states you can not hunt the same day you fly in to prevent any unfair advantages. I should have just let this topic die out, but the statement about the game cameras was too crazy to pass up. It sounds like you're starting to look for any excuse to help you sleep better at night. By the way, how much would it cost for a "weekend hunter" to harvest, not hunt, harvest, that 240"+ buck? i noticed none of the prices were listed. And as far as the antelope go, can your deer jump/crawl under your fence? maybe you should snip a few holes and see how quickly the deer learn of the escape route and just watch where they go the next time you go chasing after them in your helicopter for one of those data gathering airventures.

Schobs