Alabama's 3-buck limit!!!!
 

First, I want to say that this is my first post here on the huntingnet.com forum so I appologize in advance if I'm in the wrong "Topic" for this type of discussion. (Feel free to point me in the right direction ifthat is the case.)

So, back to business.

I am an AVID hunter / outdoorsman / conservationist here in Alabama (20+ years) and, for my entire hunting career, I have been a hunter who abides by ALL state laws as well assticking tomy beliefs to be a responsible hunter and making decisions that I feel are the most responsible decisions for the health, the numbers and the overall well being of our deer herd. -which, BTW, is the largest, the healthiest, the best ratio in regds. to bucks to does, IN HISTORY! We currently have a huntable (sufficient numbers)and, most importantly,healthy deer herd in every single county, including Jefferson Co.which is where Birmingham and all of the big surrounding cities are located. This is a result of education, responsible hunting, deer managment AS THE LAND OWNERS AND LEASE HOLDERS SEE FIT FOR THEIR PARTICULAR PC. OF PROPERTY.
Also, one of the main points in regds. to this discussion, some of the biggest and highest scoring bucks are being harvested in the state as well. I can vouch for that claim personally based on what I've seen in the woods, at the check stations (for WMA's), and in the back of my truck. (bucks that qualify as "riding w/the tailgate down bucks"... ;))

Now, the Comissioner of The Dept. of Conservation, Barnett Lawley, (a position that's appointed by the Govenor, and the "advisory board", also appointed by the Govenor on the advise of Barnett Lawley, made up of 9 "professional hunters" (using the term lightly) who just happen to be people who have been successful in the HUNTING AND FISHING BUSINESS and who are known in the state as "big money hunters" who own fenced in ranches w/their own personal biologists, etc... This decision was based strictly on the fact that, and I quote one of the 7 who voted in favor of the limit and even used his own PAID personal biologist as part of "study group" bypassing all of the STATE biologists who DID NOT agree with the 3 buck limit due to the FACT that "Education is already working", w/the exception of two that, ironically, ended up on the "study group". Anyway, his quote was....................."I'm getting bored with seeing 50 does w/only 3 or 4 smaller racked bucks (less than 150 class being "smaller bucks") on my food plots". That statement speaks volumes to me since 90% & change, of the hunters in this state don't have land like these guys and, speaking personally, I've never seen more than 10 deer in a food plot at one time in my life and I am a HARD HUNTER who's had the honor, at times,of hunting some of the best land in the state. Also, every hunter that I talk to infatically deny seeing anything CLOSE to a 20-1 doe to buck ratio anywhere in the state but more like a, being conservative, 5-1 which is a good number in my book.
OK, to get off of my soapbox and end this NOVEL or rants, we, as Alabama's hunters, have been caught with our pants down on this issue because it had already happened before we knew it was even an issue simply due to the fact that we've always supported and had complete trust in our Dept.of Conservation and even the Advisory Board because they, in the past, seemed to acknowledge that they were working FOR US, not making this their "expeimental playground"...It TRULY sadens me that they've forced our hands to fight this and drawn a line in the sand that leaves me and my group no choice but to sharpen our canine teeth against the very people who we considered to be our ALLIES, OUR BROTHERS!!!

So, with that being said, any opinions would be appreciated.

Also, if you want further info.(which needs to exclude hunters w/heart probs. or high blood pressure because it WILL piss you off!) feel free to leave me a request and I will post it on here. (more detailed facts about how this took place and how it was shoved down our throats w/o any say so what so ever.)

Thanks in advance for your patience and I'm glad to be here on the forum.
Deerhunter72

RE: Alabama's 3-buck limit!!!!
 

To me the situationis screaming out for not just an "Earn-A-Buck" (EAB) program by requiring taking a doe before becoming eligible for a buck, but probobly a "2-4-1" or 2-4-1/EAB program.

Gotta thin those does before the numbers explode.

RE: Alabama's 3-buck limit!!!!
 

In my opinon, how many Bucks wouldanyone ever need to kill in a single season??? [&:]Most states that are actually known for quality hunting only have a ONE or TWO buck limit anyway. It's always been that way here in Illinois and I've never minded it. In fact, lowering our limit from 2 to a 1 buck limit wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit, it would simply make me raise my tropy standards even more. I say limit the numbers of Bucks killed and continue to make Does UNLIMITED. I think the quality that will come from AL over the next several seasons will impress everyone. Look at the difference restrictions and limits have done to PA over the last few years ?!?

RE: Alabama's 3-buck limit!!!!
 

I think that the gentleman is mistaken in that no one saw this coming. The game dept. has been doing surveys for a couple of years to get public opinion and input on this very subject and based on what I've read and heard the majority of the hunting public wants the buck limits. I've been living in and hunting Bama since 1972 and I fully support these limits. It's about time we stopped some of these "game hogs" who shoot 8,10,20, bucks a year(many of which are yearlings to 2 yr olds) just because they can. I say to the gentleman above, Keep hunting and shoot some does, they taste just as good. My only complaint with the new regulations is there should be ways to better enforce them and very stiff penalties for breaking these new good laws.

RE: Alabama's 3-buck limit!!!!
 

I think a better answer to the doe problem would have been to add a couple of weeks of doe only days to the end of the season, and a couple of weeks of doe only to the beginning of the season. Limiting the number of bucks shot won't make that much difference. Hunters are still going to sit day after day passing up shots on does with the hope of seeing a good buck to shoot. With the way the seasons have been set in the past, I would rarely shoot over 5 a year even though I could have shot 50 or more legal deer, hoping a good buck would come out. A lot of days I see more bucks (younger ones) than I do does. I had 16 young bucks and two does in a patch oneafternoon last year, and didn't shoot any of them.
The one in seven you quote that was seeing 50 does and only a couple of young bucks needs to start shooting does. Limiting the number of bucks shot won't make any difference to his herd otherwise.His best herd management resource is his trigger finger, besides that a lot of peopledon't havea trophybuck management mentality aboutdeer hunting. A lot of older bucks just aren't going to have a Boone and Crocket rack andit doesn't matter how old they get to be. A common saying I have seen used as the reason for not extending the season into February when the rut is going strong is that theConservation Department doesn'twant all the "breeder bucks" or "herd bucks" shot because that is the good genetics is that needs to be passed on. There is no difference in a one year old bucks genetics and that same buck at 7 years of age, and just because he may have a large rack doesn't necessarily make him a smarter buck. It also doesn't make him a dominant breeder. Studies in pens where the offspring of several different bucks and bucks were genetically tested show that the largest bucks don't necessarily produce the dominant number of offspring.
You seem to have a good interest in Bama deer, where do you hunt??

RE: Alabama's 3-buck limit!!!!
 

When you can shoot as many bucks as you want a year, of course theres going to be alot of does. It seems pretty obvious, you need to limit the bucks.

RE: Alabama's 3-buck limit!!!!
 

I personally don't like the pressure that the trophy only mentality is exerting to make everyone conform to their mind set. They always say, you can shoot a doe--well, I say you can practice your own methods, with everybody's blessing, on your own land, and stop attempting to force your style on others.

RE: Alabama's 3-buck limit!!!!
 

..... and I think it's said that folks won't use their heads so their hands must be forced. :)

It's time that hunters are held responsible for the badly skewed and out of whack sex ratios and over populations of antlerless animals thatyears of heavy immature buck shooting has resulted in. Your kind of folks complain because of a buck limit or antler restrictions, yet you'd shoot as many yearling basket racks as you could in a season! [&o]

It's time for a change!

RE: Alabama's 3-buck limit!!!!
 

Sorry, but you are making a broad, and incorrect assumption. First, my complaint isn't about the limit, and I do not shoot yearlings. I would be glad to compare the numbers I passed last year. The problem is a few being able to press their styles on others. QDM is not what you are clearly advocating. Buck restrictions and doe harvests regs are designed to keep a balance and numbers inline with carrying capcity--all in keeping with QDM. Placing size restrictions --points, spread, etc. is not, and goes from good sense to unnecesarry subjective, and unhealthy restraints that the majority of hunters don't support. Youalready have teh option and right to do so if you wish. Going from QDM to the trophy only mentality removes mnay rights from those who otherwise would still practice QDM, without the added, and unneeded, so far as actually helping the deer herd is concerned. In fact, Onlyremoving the superior bucks, and attempting to achieve a 1-1 buck to doe ratio is not healthy for teh deer herd. Bucks cand and do service multiple does, and the mortality rate among fawns necessitates a highe rnumber of does within the herd. When the rut comes on, the 1-1 ratio increase buckfight frequencies and intensity, resulting in injuries and deaths tha, otherwise, would not occur. Not to mention--horror upon horror--broken tines, and beams--rendering that buck useless to the trophy only mentality!
If you want to practice it, it is fine and no one is stopping you on your property. I find it unfair to subject teh majority to a minority viewpoint. Educate them on QDM, and let them decide for themselves and seel out like minded clubs if they want to go your route,but leave the option open fo r the rest of us. That way, all can enjoy and encourage others to enjoy our right to hunt, not our right t be forced to follow what only a lesser nimber of individuals choose to do. Imagine telling my 6 year old--'Daddy is going to take you hunting today, but you have to remember that a buck must have a 16' spread, be a least 4 1/2 years old, score a minimum of 130", and you have to be able to score him in seconds in the field, or face teh wrath of the deer police! Wouldn't that be fun!;):D

RE: Alabama's 3-buck limit!!!!
 

This 3 buck limit allows 2 of those bucks to be any size one chooses to shoot and the third to be 4 points on one side. That elliminates the argument that a kid has to field judge an animal at least on his first two bucks. If a kid is allowed by his parent to take 3 bucks in a season then I think that parent should also be teaching stewardship and restraint and not the "if its brown its down" mentality. If parents don't or won't teach them then the law and public pressure should.