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30 calibers
Besides the amount of powder behind the bullet, what is the difference between the 270, 30-06, and 300?? Thanks in advance.
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RE: 30 calibers
The .270 uses a smaller diameter bullet ( .277")...
The 30-06 and .300 Mags use a .308" dia. bullet and the main difference between them is that the larger case for the magnum holds more powder...More powder + same bullet = more velocity, which means more energy and a flatter trajectory... |
RE: 30 calibers
The .270 also uses less powder, the average deer round is 130, while the average deer round in the .308 Win and the 30-06 is 150, and the .270's elk and moose round is a 150 grain, but the .308 and 30-06's standard elk/moose bullets are 180 grain.
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RE: 30 calibers
(short sweet and overly simple)
270 is a necked down version of 30-06. Basically, or rather in simple terms,its the same cartridge but smaller bullet. 300 is the same diameter bullet as 30-06 with a different cartrdige, load, etc |
RE: 30 calibers
From the deer's perspective, not a d@mn thing!
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RE: 30 calibers
ORIGINAL: Gangly (short sweet and overly simple) 270 is a necked down version of 30-06. Basically, or rather in simple terms,its the same cartridge but smaller bullet. 300 is the same diameter bullet as 30-06 with a different cartrdige, load, etc |
RE: 30 calibers
smaller in diameter projectile
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RE: 30 calibers
The 30 caliber does not automatically have more power. Power is derived from a combination of bullet weight and bullet velocity. The 30-30 is a 30 caliber but does not have the so called power of the 270.
I would suggest that if you are interested in this stuff that you purchase the Hornady reloading manuals where you will find about everything there is to know about calibers and ballistics. |
RE: 30 calibers
Or... Check out the ballistics tables, free, at www.remington.com or www.winchester.com or www.federalcartridge.com .
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RE: 30 calibers
ORIGINAL: Wingbone From the deer's perspective, not a d@mn thing! |
RE: 30 calibers
The Hornady Manuals will give you a nice write up and history of all the caliber and in most cases who developed them plus all the ballistics tables and tons of info on bullets and powder and also reloading and equipment to do same.
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RE: 30 calibers
go to chuckhawks.com. This site gives great comparisons between different rounds and reviews on each individual round.
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RE: 30 calibers
It's true that the .30 cal doesn't have more power than a .270 from it's bullet diameter alone, but it still has more mass, which is more ideal when trying to break through bone, and it leaves a bigger exit hole.
A 30-30 doesn't have as much power as the .270, but it has more bullet mass, which is ideal for a "brush gun", since it will be more forgiving, since it won't blow up when it hits a twig or something. |
RE: 30 calibers
Bullet Mass is not everything either. Sectional density comes into play. A 180 grain 30 caliber bullet may well break bones and penetrate well but a 110 grain 30 caliber bullet will not. Comparing bullets by caliber alone does not tell the story.
There is no caliber or bullet that shoots through brush and twigs without major deflection. That one is a myth. |
RE: 30 calibers
There is no bullet going slow or fast that is going to go through brush any better then the next.It is a big myth as James B said.The .30 cal bullet is .023 larger then the .270 (.277) They will both work well on whitetail and aminals of that size.I would say if you are going to buy one get the rifle you like best and learn to shoot it as good as possible.Then the calibur difference wont be a problem.If you areonly hunting with it and shooting out to 300yds,any of the popular rifle brands will work.Ruger,remington,browning,savage ect...... Good luck !
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RE: 30 calibers
ORIGINAL: DANTHEHUNTER The .30 cal bullet is .023 larger then the .270 (.277) They will both work well on whitetail and aminals of that size. |
RE: 30 calibers
Okay that is correct.
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RE: 30 calibers
ORIGINAL: James B Bullet Mass is not everything either. Sectional density comes into play. A 180 grain 30 caliber bullet may well break bones and penetrate well but a 110 grain 30 caliber bullet will not. Comparing bullets by caliber alone does not tell the story. There is no caliber or bullet that shoots through brush and twigs without major deflection. That one is a myth. |
RE: 30 calibers
I think the brush gun label camesfrom the size of the gun - shorter barrel makes it easier manuever in brush. Just like many tactical/home defenseguns are fairly short- easy to manuever in a tight spot (just a generalization). I think people just added the "shoot through brush" to it out of ignorance.
Either way, just like everyone has said, anything at oraround that 30 caliber range can be a great choice for hunting. Match a rifle you like with the right ammo and you'll be fine. I personally think weapon choice is more crucial than a specific caliber choice, jmo. |
RE: 30 calibers
I agree. aside from frontal area, and given similar velocity and bullet construction, one can expect about the same performance from bullets in all caliber which are about the same Sectional density. That would be, 100 grain for the 243, 117 grain for the 25 calibers, 129 grains for the 6.5 calibers,130 grain for the 270 and 165 grain for the 30 caliber. All of these bullets are very close to the same Sectional density That is in the 240-260 range. These bullets areHornady but the same would hold true for the other brands as well. Frontal area and velocity can vary the terminal performance of these bullets but given the velocity offactory loads in these calibers any of them are ample deer rifles given decent shot placement.
Yes there are BRUSH guns but as stated above, this is because they were light and fast handling in heavy cover. |
RE: 30 calibers
You don't think a twig will have less impact on a 300 Win. Mag. than on a .22-250 Rem.? That's actually, no offense, sounding like bologna (ba-lo-nee).
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RE: 30 calibers
ORIGINAL: younggun243 You don't think a twig will have less impact on a 300 Win. Mag. than on a .22-250 Rem.? That's actually, no offense, sounding like bologna (ba-lo-nee). |
RE: 30 calibers
Quit trying to make the point, I'm the one who brought up an argument, and you are trying to change it, and make it into somethingI'm not talking about.
The point is, since a guy might find himself hunting in a brushy area, he might not see all the twigs in the way, so he would want to minimize the effect of a twig on the bullets' flight path, by using a cartridge with more mass. I know that there is no bullet that can perfectly go through light brush as if nothing happened, but at close quarters, what's the difference? It depends on what gun you have, if you're hunting with a .243, it'll get thrown off badly, or, if it's a ballistic tip, it might start to shatter too early, so it doesn't produce the desired effect, but a 30-06 or a 300 Win. Mag., would have more bullet mass, and have "More to give" so to speak, and the "more" would be enough to kill a deer at short range, through LIGHT brush. If it's heavy enough you can only see thesilhouette of the deer, you need a .460 Weatherby or something.:Dj/k, It's not good to take thick brush shots with any gun,IMO. |
RE: 30 calibers
ORIGINAL: younggun243 Quit trying to make the point, I'm the one who brought up an argument, and you are trying to change it, and make it into somethingI'm not talking about. The point is, since a guy might find himself hunting in a brushy area, he might not see all the twigs in the way, so he would want to minimize the effect of a twig on the bullets' flight path, by using a cartridge with more mass. I know that there is no bullet that can perfectly go through light brush as if nothing happened, but at close quarters, what's the difference? It depends on what gun you have, if you're hunting with a .243, it'll get thrown off badly, or, if it's a ballistic tip, it might start to shatter too early, so it doesn't produce the desired effect, but a 30-06 or a 300 Win. Mag., would have more bullet mass, and have "More to give" so to speak, and the "more" would be enough to kill a deer at short range, through LIGHT brush. If it's heavy enough you can only see thesilhouette of the deer, you need a .460 Weatherby or something.:Dj/k, It's not good to take thick brush shots with any gun,IMO.  Your premise "POINTis flawed/based on bush beaters "myth". My reply same as before:eek: |
RE: 30 calibers
I never said "Brush Buster", I said "Brush Gun".
You're really trying to put words in my mouth, 'cause you know that my argument is true, I will say it one more time. A bulletwith alarger bullet mass will be less affected from brush than a gun with the same velocityand smallerbullet mass. It's about inertia, the First Law of Motionwritten by Newton, "the velocity of an object is not changed unless acted upon by an outside force." An uprightstick may stop a runningmouse cold in it's tracks, but a dog isn't going to be stopped, it'll be slowed down if it runs into the stick, but it'll keep moving forward, since it has bigger mass, even if it has the same velocity. Just quit trying to argue a bunch of crap, and don't change the subject anymore. |
RE: 30 calibers
Having more bullet mass does not mean the bullet will plow through the brush and hit the target. It is impossible to know what any bullet will do when it stikes a twig or even grass and weeds. Its foolish to take a chance on a poor hit shooting through brush. There is no proof that a 30 caliber bullet would deflect less that a 22 caliber bullet. I hate to see new comers to hunting get false info about brush guns. You are better off with good enough optics to see the small twigs and wait for a clear shot.
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RE: 30 calibers
Brush Guns mean Short barrels and a twig will deflect a .50cal mg round.
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RE: 30 calibers
ORIGINAL: James B Having more bullet mass does not mean the bullet will plow through the brush and hit the target. It is impossible to know what any bullet will do when it stikes a twig or even grass and weeds. Its foolish to take a chance on a poor hit shooting through brush. There is no proof that a 30 caliber bullet would deflect less that a 22 caliber bullet. I hate to see new comers to hunting get false info about brush guns. You are better off with good enough optics to see the small twigs and wait for a clear shot. I never said that having a gun that would minimize the effects of brush would guarantee a kill the shooter set out to make. Sure, I might have no proof of a .22 penetrating less than a .30 cal, but it's common sense. Don't you think asemi-truck will crash through a fence better than a regular car? There's a bit of a difference in the auto's ability to keep a straighter drive pattern, and the semi's. I believe the same can be said about bullets. |
RE: 30 calibers
James B
Yes, bothbullets will deflect, but you have to take into effect momentum and vector analysis in which case the mass of anprojectile plays a large roll in theamount of energy trasnferred, and the direction of that energy after impacting an object. Short and sweet of it is that bothbullets will deflect but the heavierbullet will USUALLY deflect much less given that the object being impacted is not an unmovable barrier, or an object of much greater mass and velocity in which case a similar outcome would be expected for both weighted bullets. |
RE: 30 calibers
Your arguement is exactly where the "bush beater" term/myth evolved from my understanding, any way. The belief that a larger bulletis better than smaller as it should be less affected by twigs/grass, etc. As I statedin my first postwhether it is less affected means squat, it is affected so that can lead to an altered POI and ulitimately a wounded animal. I don't consider it ethical to shoot in hopes your bullet will hit it's intended target, so I voice my opinions freely when such things are debated. That's all nothing more.
You have your opinion and I have mine. Have a good one:D |
RE: 30 calibers
Actually energy = velocity X mass. So a small bullet moving very fast would have more "inertia" as you put it, than a larger bullet moving slowly.
Like several others have already said though, there is almost no way to accurately predict what is going to happen when a bullet hits a twig, rock, etc. It could go right through ordeflect off at a 30 degree angle, regardless of the size or speed. |
RE: 30 calibers
For a specific example, a 7mm Rem Mag shooting factory ammo (140 gr Nosler Partion) would have3,084 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle compared to a .30-06 shooting a 180 gr NoslerPartion with 2,913 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle.
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RE: 30 calibers
Skeeter said it better than I can. Its not a matter of which deflects more or velocity or anything else. Its a matter of fact that most any projectile will alter its path when hitting an obstacle. any deflection is to much. Its a shoot no shoot matter and if the shot is not clear, IMO one should pass on the shot. I won't nit pick any further. You all have some good points and I think we probably all agree on passing that kind of a shot up.
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RE: 30 calibers
ORIGINAL: npaden Actually energy = velocity X mass. So a small bullet moving very fast would have more "inertia" as you put it, than a larger bullet moving slowly. Like several others have already said though, there is almost no way to accurately predict what is going to happen when a bullet hits a twig, rock, etc. It could go right through ordeflect off at a 30 degree angle, regardless of the size or speed. I believe you are referring to momentum when you say inertia, but if you are referring to energy as force, it ismass x accelleration(sp?), not mass times velocity. |
RE: 30 calibers
ORIGINAL: James B Skeeter said it better than I can. Its not a matter of which deflects more or velocity or anything else. Its a matter of fact that most any projectile will alter its path when hitting an obstacle. any deflection is to much. Its a shoot no shoot matter and if the shot is not clear, IMO one should pass on the shot. I won't nit pick any further. You all have some good points and I think we probably all agree on passing that kind of a shot up. Good hunting to everybody! |
RE: 30 calibers
ORIGINAL: npaden For a specific example, a 7mm Rem Mag shooting factory ammo (140 gr Nosler Partion) would have3,084 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle compared to a .30-06 shooting a 180 gr NoslerPartion with 2,913 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle. |
RE: 30 calibers
In the case of the "Brush Gun" no bullet light or small has a batter chance of hitting its target once it hits brush, the velocities involved are so high that the same bullets/speeds/ect..might hit 25yds apart, a few degrees of angle mean huge distances off target even at 100yds.
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