30 calibers
03-27-2007, 04:24 PM
#22
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 6,921
RE: 30 calibers
ORIGINAL: younggun243
You don't think a twig will have less impact on a 300 Win. Mag. than on a .22-250 Rem.? That's actually, no offense, sounding like bologna (ba-lo-nee).
You don't think a twig will have less impact on a 300 Win. Mag. than on a .22-250 Rem.? That's actually, no offense, sounding like bologna (ba-lo-nee).
03-27-2007, 05:37 PM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 4,264
RE: 30 calibers
Quit trying to make the point, I'm the one who brought up an argument, and you are trying to change it, and make it into somethingI'm not talking about.
The point is, since a guy might find himself hunting in a brushy area, he might not see all the twigs in the way, so he would want to minimize the effect of a twig on the bullets' flight path, by using a cartridge with more mass.
I know that there is no bullet that can perfectly go through light brush as if nothing happened, but at close quarters, what's the difference? It depends on what gun you have, if you're hunting with a .243, it'll get thrown off badly, or, if it's a ballistic tip, it might start to shatter too early, so it doesn't produce the desired effect,
but a 30-06 or a 300 Win. Mag., would have more bullet mass, and have "More to give" so to speak, and the "more" would be enough to kill a deer at short range, through LIGHT brush. If it's heavy enough you can only see thesilhouette of the deer, you need a .460 Weatherby or something.
j/k, It's not good to take thick brush shots with any gun,IMO.
The point is, since a guy might find himself hunting in a brushy area, he might not see all the twigs in the way, so he would want to minimize the effect of a twig on the bullets' flight path, by using a cartridge with more mass.
I know that there is no bullet that can perfectly go through light brush as if nothing happened, but at close quarters, what's the difference? It depends on what gun you have, if you're hunting with a .243, it'll get thrown off badly, or, if it's a ballistic tip, it might start to shatter too early, so it doesn't produce the desired effect,
but a 30-06 or a 300 Win. Mag., would have more bullet mass, and have "More to give" so to speak, and the "more" would be enough to kill a deer at short range, through LIGHT brush. If it's heavy enough you can only see thesilhouette of the deer, you need a .460 Weatherby or something.
j/k, It's not good to take thick brush shots with any gun,IMO.
03-28-2007, 07:46 AM
#24
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 6,921
RE: 30 calibers
ORIGINAL: younggun243
Quit trying to make the point, I'm the one who brought up an argument, and you are trying to change it, and make it into somethingI'm not talking about.
The point is, since a guy might find himself hunting in a brushy area, he might not see all the twigs in the way, so he would want to minimize the effect of a twig on the bullets' flight path, by using a cartridge with more mass.
I know that there is no bullet that can perfectly go through light brush as if nothing happened, but at close quarters, what's the difference? It depends on what gun you have, if you're hunting with a .243, it'll get thrown off badly, or, if it's a ballistic tip, it might start to shatter too early, so it doesn't produce the desired effect,
but a 30-06 or a 300 Win. Mag., would have more bullet mass, and have "More to give" so to speak, and the "more" would be enough to kill a deer at short range, through LIGHT brush. If it's heavy enough you can only see thesilhouette of the deer, you need a .460 Weatherby or something.j/k, It's not good to take thick brush shots with any gun,IMO.
Quit trying to make the point, I'm the one who brought up an argument, and you are trying to change it, and make it into somethingI'm not talking about.
The point is, since a guy might find himself hunting in a brushy area, he might not see all the twigs in the way, so he would want to minimize the effect of a twig on the bullets' flight path, by using a cartridge with more mass.
I know that there is no bullet that can perfectly go through light brush as if nothing happened, but at close quarters, what's the difference? It depends on what gun you have, if you're hunting with a .243, it'll get thrown off badly, or, if it's a ballistic tip, it might start to shatter too early, so it doesn't produce the desired effect,
but a 30-06 or a 300 Win. Mag., would have more bullet mass, and have "More to give" so to speak, and the "more" would be enough to kill a deer at short range, through LIGHT brush. If it's heavy enough you can only see thesilhouette of the deer, you need a .460 Weatherby or something.
j/k, It's not good to take thick brush shots with any gun,IMO.
Your premise "POINTis flawed/based on bush beaters "myth". My reply same as before
03-28-2007, 01:03 PM
#25
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 4,264
RE: 30 calibers
I never said "Brush Buster", I said "Brush Gun".
You're really trying to put words in my mouth, 'cause you know that my argument is true, I will say it one more time.
A bulletwith alarger bullet mass will be less affected from brush than a gun with the same velocityand smallerbullet mass.
It's about inertia, the First Law of Motionwritten by Newton, "the velocity of an object is not changed unless acted upon by an outside force."
An uprightstick may stop a runningmouse cold in it's tracks, but a dog isn't going to be stopped, it'll be slowed down if it runs into the stick, but it'll keep moving forward, since it has bigger mass, even if it has the same velocity.
Just quit trying to argue a bunch of crap, and don't change the subject anymore.
You're really trying to put words in my mouth, 'cause you know that my argument is true, I will say it one more time.
A bulletwith alarger bullet mass will be less affected from brush than a gun with the same velocityand smallerbullet mass.
It's about inertia, the First Law of Motionwritten by Newton, "the velocity of an object is not changed unless acted upon by an outside force."
An uprightstick may stop a runningmouse cold in it's tracks, but a dog isn't going to be stopped, it'll be slowed down if it runs into the stick, but it'll keep moving forward, since it has bigger mass, even if it has the same velocity.
Just quit trying to argue a bunch of crap, and don't change the subject anymore.
03-28-2007, 02:11 PM
#26
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wall SD USA & Jamestown ND
Posts: 11,474
RE: 30 calibers
Having more bullet mass does not mean the bullet will plow through the brush and hit the target. It is impossible to know what any bullet will do when it stikes a twig or even grass and weeds. Its foolish to take a chance on a poor hit shooting through brush. There is no proof that a 30 caliber bullet would deflect less that a 22 caliber bullet. I hate to see new comers to hunting get false info about brush guns. You are better off with good enough optics to see the small twigs and wait for a clear shot.
03-28-2007, 03:36 PM
#28
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 4,264
RE: 30 calibers
ORIGINAL: James B
Having more bullet mass does not mean the bullet will plow through the brush and hit the target. It is impossible to know what any bullet will do when it stikes a twig or even grass and weeds. Its foolish to take a chance on a poor hit shooting through brush. There is no proof that a 30 caliber bullet would deflect less that a 22 caliber bullet. I hate to see new comers to hunting get false info about brush guns. You are better off with good enough optics to see the small twigs and wait for a clear shot.
Having more bullet mass does not mean the bullet will plow through the brush and hit the target. It is impossible to know what any bullet will do when it stikes a twig or even grass and weeds. Its foolish to take a chance on a poor hit shooting through brush. There is no proof that a 30 caliber bullet would deflect less that a 22 caliber bullet. I hate to see new comers to hunting get false info about brush guns. You are better off with good enough optics to see the small twigs and wait for a clear shot.
I never said that having a gun that would minimize the effects of brush would guarantee a kill the shooter set out to make.
Sure, I might have no proof of a .22 penetrating less than a .30 cal, but it's common sense. Don't you think asemi-truck will crash through a fence better than a regular car? There's a bit of a difference in the auto's ability to keep a straighter drive pattern, and the semi's.
I believe the same can be said about bullets.
03-28-2007, 03:58 PM
#29
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,525
RE: 30 calibers
James B
Yes, bothbullets will deflect, but you have to take into effect momentum and vector analysis in which case the mass of anprojectile plays a large roll in theamount of energy trasnferred, and the direction of that energy after impacting an object. Short and sweet of it is that bothbullets will deflect but the heavierbullet will USUALLY deflect much less given that the object being impacted is not an unmovable barrier, or an object of much greater mass and velocity in which case a similar outcome would be expected for both weighted bullets.
Yes, bothbullets will deflect, but you have to take into effect momentum and vector analysis in which case the mass of anprojectile plays a large roll in theamount of energy trasnferred, and the direction of that energy after impacting an object. Short and sweet of it is that bothbullets will deflect but the heavierbullet will USUALLY deflect much less given that the object being impacted is not an unmovable barrier, or an object of much greater mass and velocity in which case a similar outcome would be expected for both weighted bullets.
03-28-2007, 05:50 PM
#30
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 6,921
RE: 30 calibers
Your arguement is exactly where the "bush beater" term/myth evolved from my understanding, any way. The belief that a larger bulletis better than smaller as it should be less affected by twigs/grass, etc. As I statedin my first postwhether it is less affected means squat, it is affected so that can lead to an altered POI and ulitimately a wounded animal. I don't consider it ethical to shoot in hopes your bullet will hit it's intended target, so I voice my opinions freely when such things are debated. That's all nothing more.
You have your opinion and I have mine. Have a good one
You have your opinion and I have mine. Have a good one