Deer rifles
 

ok guys i'm going to wyoming again this fall and looking for a deer rifle that will put him down in one shot. I brought my 7mm out there two years ago and hit one in the shoulder and he didnt go down. i wasnt aiming there but thats where it wanted to go.. where we are hunting the longest shot is maybe 150 yards.. any suggestions and what type of bullets to go with it to nock one of these muleys down? thanks

RE: Deer rifles
 

Are you talking about a 7MM Rem Mag?? It didn't knock him down? My wife uses a 250 Savage and has no trouble knocking them down. Mayhaps its not the gun.;)

RE: Deer rifles
 

OK Dfeathies this sounds like a problem not with gun and more like abilities and bullet choice so here we go.



Hunting Is Knowing Your Abilities

Ability =Lots of practicenot just at the range on perfect benches/distances,
but in the woods with your stands or blinds. (they are not perfect benches)
The woods also have variables and obstacles:trees,bushes and limbs ect...
these are bullet deflectors. Deflected bullets are misses and/or wounded game.
When you become aware of all of these.......
Then we get to GAME FEVER this causes problems with nerves, rapid heart rate,
shaking,and some blindness to range and obstacles such as trees and limbs which
takes us back to bullet deflectors.(missed and/or wounded game)
The next thing is knowing what type of bullets to use for the game you are
hunting. How much penatration, how much expansion, how much penatration
before expansion and how fast to expand.(example .224 50 grain sx bullet with
muzzle vol.4000fps only penatrates1/2-3/4 inch explodes massive damage for next
3-4 inches with no exit on coyotes/deer)( .224 50 grain sp bullet with muzzle vol.4000fps
penatrates 1 inch with max. expansion in 3-4 inches exits with 1- 3 inch blowout)
(.284 139 grain sp bullet with muzzle vol.3000fps penatrates 3 - 4 inches before it starts
to expand max. expansion in 6 - 8 inches. 3/4 inch exit from12 inches of solid meat)

If you think about this a .284 139 grain sp bullet would travel 1/3 of the way through a
deer before it starts to expand (note: lung tissue is not solid meat either)

A better choice in bullets would be the .284 120 grain sp or hp for the faster expansion
it penatrates 1-2 inches, and starts to expand max. expansion in 3-5 inches 3/4-7/8 inch
dia. and pushes through about 12 inches of meat
(By the way reloads and hornady bullets) sp=spire pt. sx=super explosive hp=hollow pt.
BULLET CONSTRUCTION IS IMPORTANT TO CLEAN HUMANE KILLS ALSO!!!!!.

When you take practice, game fever, ammo/bullet construction, obstacles, and all
variables such as range/wind in to consideration before you pull the trigger then you
should have the Ability and Confidence to make clean humane one shot kills on game.

PLEASE DON'T EXCEED YOUR ABILITIES AND CONFIDENCE!!!!!

MOSTWEEKEND WARRIORS DON'T TAKE THESE THINGS INTO CONSIDERATION
THEY TAKE GUN OUT OF STORAGE A WEEK BEFORE SEASON, FIRE A FEW ROUNDS
JUST TO CHECK SCOPE. GO TO LOCAL GAS STATION, HARDWARE STORE, WAL-MART
BUY THE CHEAPEST AMMO THEY CAN FIND FOR THERE GUN AND JUST GO OUT
BLASTING. = (MISSED,WOUNDED AND/OR LOST GAME)!!!!

I know this is going to offend some people but things to think about before hunting
just my opinion thx

RE: Deer rifles
 

You haven't told the whole story here, but this statement sounds like you have other "issues" besides caliber/bullet selection. I am not a fan of 7 mag myself, but there is nothing wrong with it for deer IF YOU CAN HANDLE THE RECOIL. I am at a loss here and honestly don't know what to say to someone that can't hit where they aim besides PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE!!!

RE: Deer rifles
 

I put at least 400 rounds through my 7mm mag by the end of July every year. (even with reloading it still is a few bucks but well worth it). I only bench shoot the first few and the rest are from field positions at different ranges. I also use a recoil pad and shoot no more that 20-30 during a session. I have been doing this with the same gun for over 15 years and the gun still looks out of the box new. Practise practise practise. I use Sierra 150gr.BT Gameking bullets in my reloads. I've tried barnes but with the amount I shoot I don't think they are worth the cost. I've harvested some big deer at long ranges and after 35 years of hunting I'veseen some wild things that those animals can do. A couple of years back I hit a perfect dbl. lung heart shot at 180 yards and the buck still ran for about 70 yards. When I dressed him all that was left of the heart was one of the ventricles. I have also seen someone hit a buck in the shoulder at a bad angle and the bullet deflected off the shoulder blade.Make sure you have a good shot before you pull the pin and the 7mm mag will do the job. Everyone on this forum will have their favorite cal. but the 7 mm mag is still the one for me (fits my hunting situations and I like the big bang). Best of luck next time.

RE: Deer rifles
 

Yeah gotta agree with the others the problem isn't the cartridge and likely not the bullet either,it lies elsewhere;). I have taken plenty of game(antelope to moose)with the 7mm rem mag and variety of bullets ranging from 140-175gr,it has neverposed a problem (including shoulder shots of close and long range). You need to hit the rangefor somepractice, sight in and always verify POI prior to the hunt.

"not where I aimed but thats where it wanted to go" comment - Bullets do nothave a mind of their own! I Gotta ask if you never recover the animal how do you know what you hit??:eek:

whitetaildreamer you mean to say you've got 6000 plus rounds through the original tube?? If so WOW, I rebarreled atless than3000 due to throat erosion and loss of accuracy.

RE: Deer rifles
 

Skeeter 7mm
You bet, cleaning is the trick. After about every 100 or so I use a bore solvent that not only removes leading and powder residue but also copper fouling. A quick soak and the clear liquid comes out green with the copper. Most gun solvents will remove the lead and the powder and many don't even think of ridding the barrel of the copper. Be careful when using these products for a solvent to remove the copper will also remove the blueing from your barrel. My reloads max using 4350 at about 62-63 grains. I have been reducing the powder to 57. 6 grains. In my rifle I have been getting better grouping at this charge. Through the chrono I am still at vel. of over 2900 ft/sec. Also, make sure it is well vented using the copper solvent for it stinks like hell. Don't leave it in the barrel too long. Better to use 2 or 3 little cleanings than dump the bottle in the barrel and power out the copper. If you have never used a copper solvent, give it a try, you can not believe the difference it will make. Best of luck.

RE: Deer rifles
 

There's nothing at all wrong with your 7mm. And, my opinion is the same regardless of whether your are talking about a 7mm Rem Mag, a 7mm-08, a 7x57 Mauser, etc., etc., etc. Any of the 7mm's is more than adequate for deer. As everyone else has said, you need to be sure of your shot placement. How do you know that your deer was hit in the shoulder? Did you find it?

It's not at all unusual for a deer that has been hit in the shoulder to run 20-100 yards after being shot. Don't expect deer to just drop in their tracks. Some will, some won't. The only way to "drop them in their tracks" every time is with brain or spine shots, neither of which is the optimal place to shoot them... Shoot for the heart lungs area. It's nota bullet failure if the deer run a little way after being hit. Usually they'll go less than 50 yards. My first 4 deer were taken with a .30-06. Two went between 20 and 40 yards after the shot. Two dropped in their tracks. In the last two years, I've shot four deer with my .243. One went about 50 yards after the shot. One took three steps, and dropped, and two dropped in their tracks.

RE: Deer rifles
 

I clean after every range session, usingShooter Choice for power/carbon fouling and sweets or cr10 for copper. I never let my barrel get really hot - no 5 shot groups with heavy loads unless they are spaced out.No doubt i could have left my barrel longer I just didn't like theloss that came with doing so. GladI did as the replacementbarrel is faster &fouls less.

RE: Deer rifles
 

I use a Remington 700 in 30-06 and have never had one go far.

RE: Deer rifles
 

25.06 or .270 would be my choice.

RE: Deer rifles
 

Those are two great calibers for deer.

RE: Deer rifles
 

There's nothing wrong with what he has now. Shooting off the bench is great for zeroing your scope. Point of impact will change when shooting in the field freehand or with an improvised rest. Know where the bullet will hit before pulling the trigger.

RE: Deer rifles
 

Huh!!! I have been hunting and shooting for over 25 years and have never had my POI change due to changing rests or shooting positions. IF your gun is sighted in and hitting where you aim on the range, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON (other than human error) why a gun should not shoot "true" in hunting conditions.

RE: Deer rifles
 

Have to agree with Predator26. I have a Model 670 in 30-06 and usually drop them where they're shot. My favorite load is a 180 gr. Core-Lok. It is extremely important to hit the range after a flight or a car trip before heading out for game. Sounds like you learned that the hard way.

RE: Deer rifles
 

I'm not a mulie man, but I can tell you that .308 150 Gr. Corelokts are mean medicine for whitetail.

Even if he's talking about a 7mm-08 and not a remmag, still should be fine on a shoulder shot. He also didnt say if they recovered his deer.

HOWEVER... no two shots are every exactly the same.... regardless of caliber/bullet, no rifle can scientifically garantee 100% bang-flops... I've seen 80 does shot with .300WinMags shot through the lungs run 150 yds, you just never can tell... Sometimes you're just gonna have to track... it happens.

99% of people will shoot larger groups from field positions( even when braced with bipods or boxblind windows) than from a bench. Sorry but that's just common sense.... as you move away from the bench, you rely more and more on the human element, and we all should know that we, the shooter, are always the weakest link in that machine(machine in the definitive sense of a system to perform work).

Now for my soap box...

There is no good reason to use a 7mm Rem. Magnum(ESPECIALLY NEW SHOOTERS), for deer of any kind... sorry but there really isnt anything a 7mag will do that the .270 doesnt... accept make more noise and beat the snot out of you.


Best advise to prevent deer from running off... get a milder recoiling rifle and practice with it. Shoot at least 200 rounds from it, and only use the bench to sight it in. Get so as you can hit a golf ball at any range out to 300 yds on the range from field positions(no bench), and on the first shot. General rule of thumb, your effective range on game will shrink by about 20% from nerves alone. Your accuracy(potential POI radius from point of aim) will double under field conditions.

RE: Deer rifles
 

Hey, Davoh... Do you practiceat American Shooting Center?

RE: Deer rifles
 

I'm going to call you out on that one. There are very few people in the world that can shoot a golf ball from 300 yards from field positions on the first shot on a regular basis. Baseball, maybe. Softball, sure. But a golf ball is a little hard to believe. A rifle on a lead sled with a grouping of 1" MOA will move out to 3" or 4" at 300 yards. That's what mostrifles is capable of without any human intervention, and those rifles would be considered pretty accurate by most. If the wind was gusting between 5 and 15 mpha gust or lack of gust of windcould create a clean miss on a golf ball pretty easy at 300 yards.

RE: Deer rifles
 

Dave what about elk and moose they are cervids too???:) I use a 7mm rem mag for antelope to moose, have no problems handling the recoil, shooting submoa groups and harvesting game effeciently. While I agree the Rem Mag isn't required for whitetail or mule deer it certainly isn't a bad choice either if the shooter can handle/put forth the range time to be proficent. Though that goes with any cartridge IMHO. Also bare in mind other regions have larger subspecies of deer, here a 300lb buck is not uncommon - so what may seem like over kill for 150-200 animal to you in Texas may not be seen as the same for region where weight in excess of 300lbs are a reality.

I agree with your premise about shooting and the target size growing. Though very few shooter's will be able to hold a golf ball sized group at 300 yards, that to me seems a little unrealistic of an expectation or standard. My rule of thumb has always been a grapefruit sized target or like npaden suggest softball. I feel very comfortable with this standard & for me it has proven successful.

RE: Deer rifles
 

Yeah npaden, ur right to call me out there... i was thinkin softball but typed golf instead... mybad... Honestly, I doubt I could probably hit a baseball at 300 yds dependably, especially from field positions... I'm at work and my attention is splite between 7-8 things at the moment so I'm kinda scattered and didnt finish my point... I was just mainly trying to make a point that you can't guarantee a bang-flop, and that extreme accuracy is about the only chance of getting close...

The only way to garantee a bangflop is direct interuption of the Central Nervous System... which makes for a very small and improbable kill zone at 300 yds... This is regardless of how much noise, or how much kick your rifle makes....


Havn't made it down there yet.... would like to, sounds like they have a nice facility...

I actually havn't recreationally shot(aka practiced) in years... after I moved out on my own, my dad fell on hard times and had to sell my beloved Remington 788 in .308(much to my dismay) and my old Mossberg .243... both were 1/2 MOA shooters at teh bench all day long.... So now I'm starting over with a cheap singleshot I put on layaway a few weeks ago....

Valid point skeeter... but I'd still take a familiar .308 loaded with 180 Gr premiums after elk and especially giant northern whitetail... it's not that far behind the .30-06 ballistically... not sure about moose don't know much about 'em... Surely if someone can take one with archery tackle a .308 wouldnt be considered subpar....

Someone well versed at handling a firearm is different from a new shooter. New Shooters most especially should not pick up magnums... thats a good way to develop a nearly irreversible flinch... I'm not saying no one should mess with Magnums... just that they're unnecessary, and pose potential problems for those with little experience with big-boomers...

RE: Deer rifles
 

That's cool. I've just seen some pretty outlandish claims on these forums and wanted to see a clarification for how someone could routinely shoot a golf ball at 300 yards. It is way beyond my abilities.

I do think that hitting a softball at 300 yards from some field positions (prone, kneeling with a rest, etc.) with a good rifle is something that could be accomplished. I do think if you had a really good rifle and were an excellent shot and wind conditions were reasonable a baseball would be in trouble too. I would think that hitting a golf ball 1 out of 3 shots at that range would be pretty impressive. Locating it after you hit it might be a chore though!

RE: Deer rifles
 

I've shot deer with just about every caliber you can imagine but nowadays I find myself packing a Rem 700 Classic in .250 Savage and Nolsler Partitions 100gr with a healthy dose of Win 760.The deer drop just as quick and I get to see the bullet hit RE: no recoil.The mulie pic in my profile lost a terminal game of hide +seek in the poplars last fall.Bullet an inch below the earhole offhand at 50yrds.{dead before he hit the ground]I finished off a buddies whitetail buck at 300 with a lung shotafter it took two hits from a 6.5x55/140gr and wouldn't stay down.Rutted up, thought he was bullet proof.I like to set myself up on game trails so woods ranges are typically 25-100yards and the game never knows where it came from ,it's just over.To me this is more hunting than just shooting....................Harold

RE: Deer rifles
 

We all have our favorite cal.'s but when it comes down to it it's not the gun it's the gunner. practise, practise, practise.
I still love my 7mm mag.

RE: Deer rifles
 

I love my 25-06 Rem...with Winchester Super X CXP2 120 Grain. I only killed two deer last season,(spent all my time with the 8yr trying to get him one.) I must say I shot a buck in the left shoulder @ 175yds(give or take) and he never took another step. Also I shot a doe(dressed out to 145lbs..huge for AL) in the neck at 100yrs and she never took another step.

In the two years I've used the 25-06 Rem, and 6 deer harvested with it. I've NEVER had to track a deer.

for me I think its the Rapid expansion I get with the winchester Super X...I tried the Federal Premium Vital * Shok 115 Grain Nosler Partition, But didn't get as nice of a grouping @ 100yds & 200yds.