Pa. point restrictions?
 

Did you guys hear of or see many violations of the new 3 on one side restrictions in Pa.? I heard a guy come over my radio telling his buddy he had a problem, he just shot a 4 point. Saw a spike hanging in a camp but I guess it could have been shot by a junior. How many years do you think these restrictions will last?

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

once they lable you with restrictions they are usually there to stay. They may turn it into a county thing. I personaly am against antler restrictions in most areas, but what do I know, I'm not a manegment specialist.

"Hey ya'll, watch this"

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

I read in our local paper some hunters got the $25 fine and others got a much larger fine and revocation of license.I believe it's up to the discretion of the game warden to decide if it was an honest mistake or not.And you can bet the AR's are here to stay which really doesn't bother me at all.

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

Just like taxes or stop signs,once there put in place ,there going to stay.Cant eat bones

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

i think i understand what theyre tryin to do

but man I dont see how sumthin like a 3 points a side rule can work

you all know that you often dont get a chance to count points on a buck b4 a shot needs to be taken or the opportunity has passed

what I see this accomplishing is one of two things

1. hunter misses out on the chance to take a deer cuz hes too busy trying to count points

or 2. hunter shoots first and counts later and if it doesnt have enuff points doesnt tag it in or worse just leaves it for the buzzards to avoid possible fines and suspensions

** I almost got him but I refuse to take a marginal shot **

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

Hey HoytShooter, What part of Pa where u hunting because i was in McKean CO and i came across a 4 pt that someone shot in the neck , walked up to then jsut walked away from. I am a junior license holder and live int he 4pt on one side area and i took a 6 pt in archery but only because im allowed and it was my first archery buck. So get back to me on that location maybe it was over the same deer.

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

DoubleLunger55,
I hunt in Franklin Co. so were're talking about different deer. I'm sure some deer were left lay.

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

I heard on the radio a guy said he accidentally shot a 6 point and didn't move it or anything and called the game com. from his cell. the warden arrived at the scene and instead of a 25$ fine he got a $500 fine and lost hunting priv for three years. Thats crazy!!!! the warden said it was intentional but how could he make a determination from just a dead deer lying there. Sometimes I think wardens have too much power and take it out on some hunters. Do you know that a Game warden has more power than a Police officer does as far as searching your property. Now I only got this man's story and not the wardens but if this is true shame on the pa game com. I thought the game com. made it firm that if you did make a mistake you would only be fined the $25 and lose the horns but you still got to keep the meat.

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

A heads up guys!!! Same radio station had a game warden on and he said the normal fines are being handed out but the $500 ones and license suspensions are going to guys who are filling out affidavids and coming out and saying they just shot taking a chance and hoping and were fined for neglect and poor hunting actions. Idiots! I shouldn't have commented till I heard the whole story. they deserve to get everything they got!

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

Maybe it's because I've bowhunted for so long but I've never really had a problem counting points. On the same hand I don't believe in mass deer drives either and make sure I put myself in the "thick of it" when rifle hunting. There have been a couple of $500.00 fines in our county too where it's 4 pts. on a side restriction but they too were on guys who obviously didn't try to take a legal deer. (spike & a 3pt. that I know of). As for if it's a good idea or not? I lived in Montana for four years and had permission to hunt a ranch that practiced exactly what Alt is trying to do here. Reduce the number of doe and leave more mature buck for the breeding. All I can say is the buck I saw out there were incredible in size and the hunting during the rut was fast and furious with all the competition for the fewer does. Give it a couple of years and those who are still hunting won't be crying much about the whole thing.

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

I agree with Longbow. In a few years, we should see bigger buck, and more buck action. That's just my opinion, I have no problem with the restrictions and I think they are here to stay.

Shots that are True....Pass right Through!!!

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

I hunt Pennsylvania also. I like the new regs. It makes a lot of sense when you think about if for a minute.

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

I like the new restrictions myself. If someone is against them, that is fine. What I find amazing is the arguement that a hunter does not have time to count the points during rifle season.

OK, lets analyze that statement.....if you do not have time to count the points, just how sure are you that your area beyond the buck in question is safe to fire towards?

Most hunters I know use firearms substantially larger than a bb gun!
It is pretty scary to see this mindset!
Just flip the safety off, and start spraying .300 win mags.

NRA,UBP,BASS Member
New Stanton,PA

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

i actually don't have a problem with the new laws but don't understand them either :)

Explain to me just how passing up deer with less then 3 points to a side is going to get us bigger deer. Sure we don't kill the little guys that we normally do, would seem to me more big ones would die. i dunno i'm confused.

These new antler regs have made me pass up a nice shot on a buck simply because i could not see how many points the deer had. with a 4 power scope in brush its hard. I don't care though, didn't rally bother me.

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

well i like the antler restrictions but yea it is a problem of counting them at times but you should be able to cuz you do have to be sure your area is safe. I hunt where i know where every one is, its private land that only family hunts.My Uncles boss shot a 4 point took it down to the game comishen and paid $25 and they took the horns and he got the meat.I hunt in luzerene co where there is a 3 point antler restriction. I know they want bigger buck and maybe take out some of the older buck to allow younger buck to breed with some new genes or somethen, i have some friends that are apart of the game comishen and thats what they have told me and that it is more than likely to stick around. So maybe it will be somethen good, maybe it will prduce bigger buck it would be nice, but you cant eat the horns but they are nice to show off. Deer meat is a big thing in my house its are main meet supply in the winter mostly unless we dont get any me my dad and mom each shot a doe and are hopen to get a buck on saterday, my grandfather shot a nice 7 point that was still in rut so we have quit a bit of meet so far. Well wish me luck for saterday, and good luck to the rest that havent got one yet. Keep the tradition goin.

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

Wide eyes, it's pretty simple. If you don't shoot the small bucks they grow up to be big bucks. If you shoot them when they are small they stop growing. It was legal to shoot big bucks before just as it is now. In years past few hunters were passing on big bucks in the hopes of shooting a small buck, therefore no more big bucks are being shot now than were in the past. Very, very few hunters go hunting with the thought of "Dang, I can't shoot a small buck so I guess I'll just have to shoot more big ones". Not in my world, but maybe in Pennsylvania.

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

$25 fine is not all they will give you read the fine print. The $25 fine is on the spot and yes you keep the deer, but they send you a $475 fine after the fact. I have heard of 2 instances of this happening. It reads in the book like $25 and you are off the hook but read it and there is a mention that the minimum fine is $500. So look for more mistake kills in the woods as word gets out and if you can butcher the deer yourself you should they are nailing people that take them to a butcher for processing.

It is a shame it comes down to this but the AR are a good thing. If you aren't sure of your target then you shouldn't be hunting anyways. Which with suspensions and people getting sick of AR maybe they won't hunt leaving more larger bucks and less hunters in the woods for those of us that follow the rules..

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

having a clear shot on a deer has nothing to do with being able to count the points

just because you cant count the points does NOT mean you are not sure of your target lol

I bet theres alot of hush hush 4 pointers been shot in PA since they made this law...they would be better off to have a 5" antler height minimum or sumthin. Atleast it would be alot easier to glimpse a rack and know it was taller than their ears than it would be to count the actual number of points.

** I almost got him but I refuse to take a marginal shot **

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

Just a few thoughts,I don't care for the AR. I think that it is a joke & here's why,all the little guys that get by this season are probably going to be small basket racked 8 pointers next year,whats going to happen to them? BANG!=DEAD DEER!I think you'll see an increase in the average age of a buck go to 2-1/2 or 3 & probably see more 8's & 10's taken.Big Country,it is tough to count points on a moving buck especially if it busts across a wide open field.Kinda like where I hunt,big,long,wide fields overlooking a swamp with high rolling hills.Do I know whats beyond my target?Damn right I do!That has nothing to do with counting points!I own 250 acres,the only people that hunt it are my 2 boys,wife myself & a few friends.I have a large "shooting House" built & it is tough to count points on a moving deer.I watch deer all year long,& preety much know what's out here.Now some opinions on fines-granted there are slob hunters out there who will shoot anything & try & get away with it,BUT I'm sure some hunters have made an honest mistake.Remember nobody's perfect.Leaving it up to the game warden to decide if it was a mistake or not is just plain BULL SH$T!If you murder another human being you get a chance at a fair trial,if you shoot an illegal deer your popped for a $500.00 fine?The game commission made the warden judge,jury,& executioner!Some people do make honest mistakes.A man was busted at the local butcher shop,shot a small spike on the first day ,one spike measured 2",the other 3-7/16".$500.00 fine for not properly identifying his target,then he got another $200.00 fine for not taging the deer properly,he used his doe tag.I forgot to mention this man is a nieghboring farmer & is 70 years old!This prick of a warden couldn't cut him a break?I mean after all 7/16 of an inch imo thats B.S.

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

I like the AR's. I heard atleast 3 guys on the walkie talkie in Potter County saying they passed on bucks that they later found out were legal. Here in Allegheny county we unfortunately don't have AR's but I've talked to a ton of guys who say they passed up smaller bucks because they already took a doe and are looking for a big buck. I've seen more bigger buck this year at the butcher shop than I ever have before. I think this is from the concurrent seasons. Alot of guys can only hunt a few days. After they fill there freezer with doe meat they are done. Which leaves more buck for the following year. In a couple of years you'll be able to determine legal or not alot quicker with the bigger size racks than you can now with the smaller maybe(maybe not) racks. Give it a chance I think we'll all be happy.

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

I have learned to accept the changes but it is very hard for me where I hunt it is very thick with alot of brush and it is a young woods. I can see the deer as they move and am able to tell if they are a buck or not but I have to do this before they reach a natural shooting lane I have cause that's the only place to shoot a good clean shot. now this lane is my counting spot and shooting spot. Not good! Every buck I have ever seen in my 17 yrs of hunting rifle season has always been either running full speed or gettin through the woods pretty quick from pressure. They just aren't standing there like buckmasters! As far as in a couple years there will be bigger bucks and you'll be able to tell in an instant whether it's a shooter or not. My cousin's buck which I will try to get a picture of, shot a beautiful 6 pointer four years ago that had a 21" spread, 12" main beams,is very thick massed but no brow tines. Looking at it at several angles looks to be atleast a 8 or 10. I think it's just to darn hard to count points!

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

TURD, I definately agree, it can be tough to count points on a fast moving buck. Even in an open field!
But, with high quality optics it is far from impossible.
Sounds like you have an excellant piece of ground for hunting!

I may be available this spring to come on over and get you set up on the QDM path, in exchange for some archery time!<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

NRA,UBP,BASS Member
New Stanton,PA

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

I'm all for the point restrictions. They have the in Washington, in areas where the deer population is down, they started it a couple of years ago with the mule deer, and then started this year or last year with the whitetail, and the number of bucks has increased

&quot;ATTITUDE REFLECTS LEADERSHIP, CAPTAIN!&quot;

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

My sentiments exactly DG. If not sure, don't shoot. PA has way too many does anyways. Why not take a doe or two if you have the tags? Spikes and Forkhorn racks are pretty damn hard to make tender enough to eat. Why not hold off for a wall hanger? I think the law is great and puts an end to the &quot;I got my buck every opening day&quot;( even though none was bigger than a 4 pt)mentality.

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

In Arkansas its working ... resulting in bigger bucks and more bucks seen. However, AG&F made a huge mistake in not limiting the doe tags and they've killed off a big portion of the deer in northern Arkansas. instead of people bagging say a buck and a doe, now everbody is taking 2 and 3 does and its hurt our deer herds terribly.


Stealthycat's Photo's

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

Exactly stealthycat! Unlimeted doe shooting will over time hurt the population.Thundergut I am one of those hunters &quot;that gets a buck every opening day&quot;,smallest one was a seven point.This year I got an 8 point with a 20&quot; spread.My 14 year old boy shot a large 6 point with an 18&quot; spread.On the second day my 12 year old also got a 6 point his first.The big 6 point my oldest shot is huge,real thick,long-tined,he could have easily been mistaken for an 8 point.I new he was a 6 because I watched him all summer & had a spotting scope on him the first morning.All I'm saying is that mistakes do happen!Have any of you guys thought about hunting with a slug gun? Thats one way to get bigger bucks.Hey I'm a rifleman,ballistic nut if you will.I shoot all year long & love long range deer hunting.But I've been out in the midwest quite a few times with a slug gun,different tactics but I seen some huge bucks.Just my .02 cents worth.

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

Turd, congrats on your opening day successes, perhaps I should have elaborated. I am talking about the guys, and they are in every bar in PA the afternoon of the opener, who brag about shooting their buck every opener, and invaribly they are yearling bucks that could have grown into something super at some point. These are the same guys who heard that there was a $25 fine for shooting a buck not meeting the AR requirements, and have decided that they will just whack a forkhorn or spike and continue their streak, only to find out that they were seriously mistaken to the tune of $500. I see no need in killing small deer just for the bragging rights.


Edited by - Thundergut on 12/12/2002 12:40:18

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

Your right Thundergut,I know the type your talking about.Guys like that deserve to get fined.If you read my earlier post I spoke of a 70 year old man who got the sh@t fined out of him for talking a spike & tagging it as a doe.I really believe his story,he lives down the road from me & is one helluva great guy,I've known him all my life.He lets people hunt his farm,NEVER even thought about taking a deer for crop damage & believe me they hammer his crops! Now he's so pissed he said he'll start killling deer for crop damage.I think this man has a legitamate bitch,7/16 of an inch is pretty petty in my book.Just my opinion.I've shot some real good bucks in my time & I'm all for bigger & better deer.Hell I feed them year round,& I'm not even a farmer,my dad still likes to plant the fields & all that other stuff,I'm nothing more than a mill worker who likes to shoot deer.I just think the PGC & Alt are going about this wrong.I HOPE I'm wrong,maybe I am. I guess we'll just have to wait & see.If I knew how to post a picture I'ds put my 8 point on here.

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

Pennsylvania has buck kill rates that run as high as 90% in some counties.

If you think about that, it is a counterproductive method of producing more and larger bucks.

What is probably not commonly known outside of Pennsylvania is that the doe tags sold out very quickly in almost all of the counties. Hunters knew that they might have to take a doe, since they might not get a clean shot at a buck that meets the antler restrictions.

They will balance the buck to doe ratio, by encouraging the taking of does, while at the same time, more young bucks get to be bigger bucks next year.

Makes perfect sense to me. I know of guys that have hunted for several days in a row without seeing a buck in PA...nothing but does.

Give it a chance. The old way didn't do much for the herd, that's for sure.

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

Great post VC. I can't agree more. I honestly think it is a shame that the state has to make these practices law because people don't have the patience to practice them on their own. I don't mean that to bash anyone but that's how I see it.

The mentality of &quot;shoot the first legal deer that walks out&quot; is why the deer herds are in such terrible conditions in many places. It will take awhile but hopefully in 10 yrs it will have caught on and people will do it on their own without the state mandating it. It's just like catch and release and size resctrictions on fish. Anglers used to have the mentality of keeping every single fish they caught, and they were devestating the fish numbers and the young fish could never grow to become mature. Same thing with deer. The effects on a deer herd can be terrible when there are so few mature bucks.

Oh and yes I'm willing to practice what I preach. I haven't killed a buck sind '98. I've passed up buck after buck because I'm waiting on a big mature whitetail. If I want meat, I'll kill a doe, we have to many anyway. Just my 2 cents.

--------------------------------------------
Hunting the Piney Woods of Deep East Texas.

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

I think a lot of the &quot;I'll take the 1st legal buck that comes by&quot; might come from the season. There are only 2 Saturdays a year to hunt with a rifle. Opening day was on a Monday and there's no Sunday hunting. Doe season was always 3 days and it was Monday-Wednesday. People didn't have time to hunt if they had limited vacation and taking extra vacation to hunt does was not all that popular. Junior hunters had school and couldn't hunt doe at all unless their parents pulled them out of school. Now that they have the concurrent seasons, getting a doe will be more accessable and meat hunters can shoot a doe and not kill the spike. Things will improve. I don't know why opening is always on a Monday.

Scott Meier
White Oak Lodge

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

Every other PA season has a Saturday opener, why not the general deer season? In what dynasty did the PGC emperor come up with this Monday nonsense and why?

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

I didn't see any violations but it sure did seem that there was alot less shooting going on the first 3 days compared to years past (from what I've been told). This was only my second time to PA (Clinton Co.) on private property hunting along side guys that have been going since the late 50's. I did get my 1st ever buck though this year up there. Nice 9pt, 185 lbs at 0845, opening day.

RE: Pa. point restrictions?
 

Everybody has an opinion, just like a certain other body part. But the fact of the matter is that antler restrictions do indeed increase not only the size but also the age of the buck population. Arkansas implemented a restriction years ago and now hunters are rallying to increases the restriction. $500 fines were given but NO licesne revocations. The restriction has and will work. I saw 12 bucks after the opener. Most were not legal. That is unheard of in a state that usually harvests 8 or 9 out of every 10 bucks. And the argument that the ones that are &quot;let go&quot; this year will be killed next year. The majority of the bucks let go this year are 1 1/2, next year they will be 2 1/2. 1 1/2 year olds are the easiest deer in the woods to harvest. Given another year they will be that much more difficult to harvest and a higher percentage than usual will make into the elusive 3 1/2 year old age.