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RE: I'm Back from Alberta
Good luck to you guy's...I hope you actually win and get something out (or back) from the deal. As for Sask. you got it right (I think) I have buddies that hunt out there and some fellas on this site that have shown me some real nice deer! I myself hope to get out there one day too. All the best!
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RE: I'm Back from Alberta
DD, sorry about your hunt. But if you were successful every time, it would be shooting, not hunting. The last couple of times I've been able to hit the woods, I haven't seen much deer activity, either. Although when I get a new bulb for the spotlight, I expect my luck to change.[8D]
BTW, I'll have to admit, I'm a little jealous. I work twice as hard and still can't rufflenear asmany feathers.:D |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
ORIGINAL: North Texan DD, sorry about your hunt. But if you were successful every time, it would be shooting, not hunting. The last couple of times I've been able to hit the woods, I haven't seen much deer activity, either. Although when I get a new bulb for the spotlight, I expect my luck to change.[8D] BTW, I'll have to admit, I'm a little jealous. I work twice as hard and still can't rufflenear asmany feathers.:D dd |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
I'm the guy who hunted with DD in Alberta this year. I've read the entire threadand I just wanted to offer the following comments. Irrespective of all the replys about paying to hunt, weather, walking to your stand, being a he-man, whining etc... the point is that this outfitter, who is also the guide, did not do what he was paid to do and what he obligated himself by contract to do and that was GUIDE. If some of the respondents (primarily Canadian) are offended by the term "lazy Canadian Outfitter" it must be undestood that this was a case of a lazy outfitter who happened to be Canadian. I do not beleive that Canadian outfitters have a monopoly on laziness and I also believe there are lots of them out there who work hard for the clients--this wasn't one of them. When I spoke with the outfitter last week in an attempt to resolve this conflict he explained that all of the guiding effort in a deer hunt is done before the hunter gets there. That was his EXCUSE for sitting in the truck all week doing NOTHING. One of the earlier responses on this thread (a Canadian) was defending this conduct of sitting in the truck babysitting us as required by Canadian law. Well, yes, a guide is required by Alberta Regulations--but the guide is only required to remain in contact with the hunter--which was done by radio with a five mile range. You can scout a lot of area in a five mile square area. And how did we know the guide sat there all day doing nothing? He said so. Every time we suggested he do something, ANYTHING, he had an excuse. On the third day of our hunt he could not get me anywhere near my stand and he wanted me to sit in the truck with him all day while he smoked. I said no, I'll walk in. He said it was too dangerous and too far under the conditions but he told me where the stand was. I walked in anyway because I was there to hunt. The last thing he said to me as I was getting out of the truck was "make sure you bring your knife". Now, I would have been ecstatic to have taken and animal and done the field dressing by myself----I've done a moose in Canada without the guide before--but I paid this guy upfront for that service. And what does that comment tell you about his work ethic? It says he's lazy--there's no other possible interpretation. Yes,I've hunted with this guy before and I have killed a big deer up there---10 point 169 Inches--but I paid him and tipped him for that, and both very well. And he did not do much that time either except for his pre-scouting that told him the deer were moving where he put up his stands. This time he did nothing--and he admitted it. It's easy to say "that's hunting" and that's why they dont call it shooting. Well, I've struck out plenty before but had the guide works his a** off to create opportunity. Not this guy.On the issue of paying to hunt,I pay to hunt for several reasons. I am a busy trial lawyer and I can afford the cost. I do not have time to do all the work necessary to put together a big hunt and if I don'ttravel and pay to hunt I get no time for myself. My greatest asset---time---has already been wasted by this guy--and I cannot get that back. My wife has tried to talk me out of pursuing this matter in a Canadian Court--she's probably right. The lesson has been learned--no matter how much you check out an outfitter--you must DEMAND effort for your money and you must realize your not getting it in time to try and salvage your hunt
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RE: I'm Back from Alberta
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RE: I'm Back from Alberta
ORIGINAL: glenbach I'm the guy who hunted with DD in Alberta this year. I've read the entire threadand I just wanted to offer the following comments. Irrespective of all the replys about paying to hunt, weather, walking to your stand, being a he-man, whining etc... the point is that this outfitter, who is also the guide, did not do what he was paid to do and what he obligated himself by contract to do and that was GUIDE. If some of the respondents (primarily Canadian) are offended by the term "lazy Canadian Outfitter" it must be undestood that this was a case of a lazy outfitter who happened to be Canadian. I do not beleive that Canadian outfitters have a monopoly on laziness and I also believe there are lots of them out there who work hard for the clients--this wasn't one of them. When I spoke with the outfitter last week in an attempt to resolve this conflict he explained that all of the guiding effort in a deer hunt is done before the hunter gets there. That was his EXCUSE for sitting in the truck all week doing NOTHING. One of the earlier responses on this thread (a Canadian) was defending this conduct of sitting in the truck babysitting us as required by Canadian law. Well, yes, a guide is required by Alberta Regulations--but the guide is only required to remain in contact with the hunter--which was done by radio with a five mile range. You can scout a lot of area in a five mile square area. And how did we know the guide sat there all day doing nothing? He said so. Every time we suggested he do something, ANYTHING, he had an excuse. On the third day of our hunt he could not get me anywhere near my stand and he wanted me to sit in the truck with him all day while he smoked. I said no, I'll walk in. He said it was too dangerous and too far under the conditions but he told me where the stand was. I walked in anyway because I was there to hunt. The last thing he said to me as I was getting out of the truck was "make sure you bring your knife". Now, I would have been ecstatic to have taken and animal and done the field dressing by myself----I've done a moose in Canada without the guide before--but I paid this guy upfront for that service. And what does that comment tell you about his work ethic? It says he's lazy--there's no other possible interpretation. Yes,I've hunted with this guy before and I have killed a big deer up there---10 point 169 Inches--but I paid him and tipped him for that, and both very well. And he did not do much that time either except for his pre-scouting that told him the deer were moving where he put up his stands. This time he did nothing--and he admitted it. It's easy to say "that's hunting" and that's why they dont call it shooting. Well, I've struck out plenty before but had the guide works his a** off to create opportunity. Not this guy.On the issue of paying to hunt,I pay to hunt for several reasons. I am a busy trial lawyer and I can afford the cost. I do not have time to do all the work necessary to put together a big hunt and if I don'ttravel and pay to hunt I get no time for myself. My greatest asset---time---has already been wasted by this guy--and I cannot get that back. My wife has tried to talk me out of pursuing this matter in a Canadian Court--she's probably right. The lesson has been learned--no matter how much you check out an outfitter--you must DEMAND effort for your money and you must realize your not getting it in time to try and salvage your hunt dd |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
DD, you got to do whatever you feel is right. But I am shocked you called a lawyer over this. Or your buddy that is. I hate lawyers, and hate what goes along with litigation. I honestly do not believe you guys have a prayer unless the outfitter just wants to make you happy. Hunting is hunting. I have been up to canada and came back empty handed, and have been there when its great. Guess I never heard of a person getting a lawyer involved, and know persoanlly people who have had nightmare trips before.
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RE: I'm Back from Alberta
ORIGINAL: bigcountry DD, you got to do whatever you feel is right. But I am shocked you called a lawyer over this. Or your buddy that is. I hate lawyers, and hate what goes along with litigation. I honestly do not believe you guys have a prayer unless the outfitter just wants to make you happy. Hunting is hunting. I have been up to canada and came back empty handed, and have been there when its great. Guess I never heard of a person getting a lawyer involved, and know persoanlly people who have had nightmare trips before. dd |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
True, I don't think I am going to go thru the threads. Good luck either way.
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RE: I'm Back from Alberta
I am certainly not going to try to defend my chosen profession on a hunting site. And anyway I am used to lawyer slams. However, I would feel the same if I was a doctor, a salesman, or a ditch digger. And these outfitters, especially in another country, are counting on the fact that a non-resident hunter wont pursue them legally. It's an option, kind of like, well, paying to hunt. If you can afford it, it's there. Its not the first option I pursued in this case--and things may not get that far. But the main point about being upset over this whole fiasco is that we both would have felt differently if the guy had made some effort, hell, any effort. I am an excellent return client, or was, and I feel taken advantage of. His offer to make things right (which btw is evidence consistent with the fact that he screwed up on this hunt) was an insult to DD and I. If anyone reading this thread gets anything out of it, it should be to be very careful in choosing your outfitter. This guy we hunted with kept asking me to bring some of my buddies up there to hunt. Imagine if I had brought two or three first timers with me--maybe someone who had saved for five years to go--and they got the treatment we got? If that had happened I might consider writing some of those guys a refund check just for making the recommendation. I plan on going back to Canada--probably in 2008. I love huge Canadian whitetails. I just wont be going back with this guy and I hope noone else does either.
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RE: I'm Back from Alberta
Guess I never heard of a person getting a lawyer involved |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
DD I recall a debate we had about tipping awhile back. In that debate you referred to your guide(believe it was the same one as this hunt) as nothing more than a taxi driver. At the time I was put off as being a whitetail guide here in Saskatchewan for a number years yes that was our job to get you to and fro your blind or stand but the rest of the day was anything but sitting in a truck smoking. I now see you were talking about your impressions of this Guide(I use that term very liberally) and appears werecorrect with your assessment. Though it makes me wonder why you returned?? I mean I know youfellas shot good deer on that trip so you were feeling high as kites when you left. Thinking back, what did he do differently that trip vs this year's? Just curious.
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RE: I'm Back from Alberta
ORIGINAL: skeeter 7MM DD I recall a debate we had about tipping awhile back. In that debate you referred to your guide(believe it was the same one as this hunt) as nothing more than a taxi driver. At the time I was put off as being a whitetail guide here in Saskatchewan for a number years yes that was our job to get you to and fro your blind or stand but the rest of the day was anything but sitting in a truck smoking. I now see you were talking about your impressions of this Guide(I use that term very liberally) and appears werecorrect with your assessment. Though it makes me wonder why you returned?? I mean I know youfellas shot good deer on that trip so you were feeling high as kites when you left. Thinking back, what did he do differently that trip vs this year's? Just curious. dd |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
In no way doI think your thoughts are unreasonable. The guy should have made the effort to get you out of dud vill and into at least a hope n' prayer. Weather and rut are like a curve ball you don't know what to expect and both are out of your control but a back up plan should have been hatched no doubt about it. Though it appears your other trip was similar the only difference was you both shot good deer. Perhaps weather, better scouting or just dumb arse luck, the fact is the guy didn't really change the way he runs his opperation from what I am getting. Red flags should have been flinging up last trip not just this one!!! This is why when the question of "choosing an outfitter?" I suggest they get references from the outfitter of other than those who are successful. Ain't to hard to get a big pat on the back from a client who came up and went home with bone! Very easy for the client to forget the inbetweens when they are focused on the end result.
BTW why the sudden switch from Alberta to Saskatchewan now?? I know Alberta has much better outfitters than this clown and believe you said it was your preference??? |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
I am gonna start betting the "over" on post counts for threads started by DD :D
So the real question is have you found any good hunting areas near your new home yet? Isn't the rut about to start for you rebels? |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
Glen & DD...I have to agree with skeeter, really had some red flags in previous hunts. Guess it's water under the bridge now. That doesn't mean you have no recourse though...good luck!
on another thing...Why do so many people comment on how many posts you get DD? We have a great thread going in another area and it's very positive. I thought the whole point of these things is to talk to others around the world. It would be sad to get 1 response on something you felt passionately aboout (positive or negative). |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
ORIGINAL: skeeter 7MM In no way doI think your thoughts are unreasonable. The guy should have made the effort to get you out of dud vill and into at least a hope n' prayer. Weather and rut are like a curve ball you don't know what to expect and both are out of your control but a back up plan should have been hatched no doubt about it. Though it appears your other trip was similar the only difference was you both shot good deer. Perhaps weather, better scouting or just dumb arse luck, the fact is the guy didn't really change the way he runs his opperation from what I am getting. Red flags should have been flinging up last trip not just this one!!! This is why when the question of "choosing an outfitter?" I suggest they get references from the outfitter of other than those who are successful. Ain't to hard to get a big pat on the back from a client who came up and went home with bone! Very easy for the client to forget the inbetweens when they are focused on the end result. BTW why the sudden switch from Alberta to Saskatchewan now?? I know Alberta has much better outfitters than this clown and believe you said it was your preference??? dd |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
ORIGINAL: Bionicrooster I am gonna start betting the "over" on post counts for threads started by DD :D So the real question is have you found any good hunting areas near your new home yet? Isn't the rut about to start for you rebels? dd |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
ORIGINAL: JD IN ALBERTA Glen & DD...I have to agree with skeeter, really had some red flags in previous hunts. Guess it's water under the bridge now. That doesn't mean you have no recourse though...good luck! on another thing...Why do so many people comment on how many posts you get DD? We have a great thread going in another area and it's very positive. I thought the whole point of these things is to talk to others around the world. It would be sad to get 1 response on something you felt passionately aboout (positive or negative). dd |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
I should know better than to get into this again but nobody ever accused me of being smart:D...
Correct me if i'm wrong JDand Skeeterbut I think the pointthey are trying to make is that your useless boob of an outfitter was every bit as useless two years ago. You just failed to pick up on the "red flags", like sitting in the truck smoking for 4 days after you shot your deer. Regardless of whether a hunter is seeing deer or not, the guide should be working hard looking for a better place. In your case, you shot a great deer, but your buddy was still in the woods. In that case the outfitter should have been scouting and looking for better places for him. the fact that he sat in the truck and sipped coffee with you should have been a "red flag" for you when consideringwhether or notthis guy would get your business again. Maybe that's something that we are taking for granted as being common sense but wewere not in your shoes at the time.It's easyto be critical in the black and white world of a hunting forum ( I am speaking for myself here not Skeeter and JD). I would also like to echo Skeeter by saying that two years ago when we discussed price and tipping, I took offense. Having seen and heard more about the guy, you have every right to be upset. If anybody learns anything from this thread it should be: Be as critical of success as you are of failure. Especially when commiting $4500+ of your hard earned dollars for a trip. |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
I'd say Sask said it better than I did.
glen, you may find this amusing, just got it from my cousin the lawyer: A Mafia Godfather learns that his bookkeeper has embezzled ten million >>dollars. >> >> The bookkeeper is deaf. That was the reason he got the job in the >> first Place. It was assumed that a deaf bookkeeper would not be able >> to hear anything That he'd ever have to testify about in court. So >> when the Godfather interrogates The bookkeeper about the missing $10 >> million, he brings along an attorney Who knows sign language. >> >> The Godfather asks the bookkeeper, "Where's the 10 million you >> embezzled From me?" >> >> The attorney, using sign language, asks the bookkeeper where the 10 >> million Is hidden. >> >> The bookkeeper signs back: "I don't know what you are talking about." >> >> The attorney tells the Godfather: "He says he doesn't know what >> you're talking About." >> >> The Godfather pulls out a 9 mm pistol, puts it to the bookkeeper's >> temple, Cocks it, and says, "Ask him again!" >> >> The attorney signs to the bookkeeper: "He'll kill you for sure if you >> don't Tell him!" >> >> The bookkeeper signs back, "OK! You win! The money is in a brown >> briefcase, Buried behind the shed in my cousin Enzo's backyard in >> Queens !" >> >> The Godfather asks the attorney, "Well, what'd he say?" >> >> The attorney replies, "He says you don't have the balls to pull the >> trigger." >> >> >> Don't ya just love lawyers . >> |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
ORIGINAL: Saskabush I should know better than to get into this again but nobody ever accused me of being smart:D... Correct me if i'm wrong JDand Skeeterbut I think the pointthey are trying to make is that your useless boob of an outfitter was every bit as useless two years ago. You just failed to pick up on the "red flags", like sitting in the truck smoking for 4 days after you shot your deer. Regardless of whether a hunter is seeing deer or not, the guide should be working hard looking for a better place. In your case, you shot a great deer, but your buddy was still in the woods. In that case the outfitter should have been scouting and looking for better places for him. the fact that he sat in the truck and sipped coffee with you should have been a "red flag" for you when consideringwhether or notthis guy would get your business again. Maybe that's something that we are taking for granted as being common sense but wewere not in your shoes at the time.It's easyto be critical in the black and white world of a hunting forum ( I am speaking for myself here not Skeeter and JD). I would also like to echo Skeeter by saying that two years ago when we discussed price and tipping, I took offense. Having seen and heard more about the guy, you have every right to be upset. If anybody learns anything from this thread it should be: Be as critical of success as you are of failure. Especially when commiting $4500+ of your hard earned dollars for a trip. dd |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
now you're arguing semantics. Same sh*t, different pile as far as I'm concerned. My apology for not getting the accurate sequence of events but the message is still the same. You witnessed how he hunts. Should have been a "red flag", at least It would have been to me. It begs the question, if that is how he hunts for himself. Why would you trust that he tries any harder for you? Again, not trying to attack you, just help make the point that success can blind someone to reality. Take home message :Be just as critical of a "successful hunt as you are of an "unsuccessful" hunt. Hopefully your ordeal will help some other hunter avoid the same problem in the future.
Good luck in Sask if you ever make it up there again. Just remember, seeing more deer at the bait pile doesn't necessarily mean seeing bigger deer. |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
ORIGINAL: Saskabush You witnessed how he hunts. Should have been a "red flag", at least It would have been to me. It begs the question, if that is how he hunts for himself. Why would you trust that he tries any harder for you? Again, not trying to attack you, just help make the point that success can blind someone to reality. Good luck in Sask if you ever make it up there again. Just remember, seeing more deer at the bait pile doesn't necessarily mean seeing bigger deer. dd |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
DD, I looked at his website a while ago and to be honest I wasn't impressed. Call me picky but I like to see a professional website from a professional outfitter. The total lack of references is a big turnoff right away. Also, personal preference would have me looking at a outfitter who makes a living at it, not just a part-timer. If it was me, I would have looked at a bigger better known outfit that maintains an informative website with successful and unsuccessful references :D(same thing Skeeter said). Having said that, it's hard to judge a book by its cover. His website isn't aweful, but i've seen much better.
I'm no expert and i've never been on a guided hunt but i respect the fact that there is a million outfitters out there all saying the same thing. It's d*mn hard to pick the good ones from the bad. Yours isn't the worst story i've heard. At least your guy stayed within the law. Again, hopefully your ordeal helps other hunters be more critical in choosing an outfit. |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
ORIGINAL: Saskabush I'm no expert and i've never been on a guided hunt but i respect the fact that there is a million outfitters out there all saying the same thing. It's d*mn hard to pick the good ones from the bad. Yours isn't the worst story i've heard. At least your guy stayed within the law. Again, hopefully your ordeal helps other hunters be more critical in choosing an outfit. dd |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
Jd--I love lawyer jokes. And I must admit, yours made me laugh--which may have been the best result of posting on this site yet. To Sask I will say I think you are absolutley right about the red flags and knowing what to expect with this guy. DD and I got lucky in 2004, plain and simple. And we went back because of the big deer addiction. We were willing to overlook the outfitters laziness so long as we had the opportunity on some BIG deer--and it didn't happen in 2006---Shame on us--we should have foreseen the worst case scenario and planned appropriately--we didn't (and the outfitter/guide didn't)and it sucked. I am just sick over having lost the time up there. Thankfully I leave for Fairbanks on September 3, 2007. The outfitter told me his guides will hunt me until I cry or die, but they give 100%. I hope to return to Alberta in 2008----trying to arrange something in the Peace River area---or maybe the Edmonton Bow Zone. In any event it wont be with the same outfit.
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RE: I'm Back from Alberta
... forget it I was doing goood staying off this thread.
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RE: I'm Back from Alberta
Glen and DD, if and when you choose to return i'd be happy to forward you the name of the outfitter I worked for in 2003. In my mind they are outstanding and have an excellent track record with lots of repeat business. Also, if you're interested in the Peace area feel free to drop me a pm when you start looking for an outfitter. I don't know many of the guys that operate up here but i'd be happy to run any names you might have past the fish cops at the office.;)
I've been enough of a thorn in your side (mainly you DD) that at least I can offer to help in your search for a better option:D |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
Sask I can take a thorn in my side when its honest and respectful ..your both.. and I respect a man who speaks his mind...so no problem on this end I have gotten use to it on here. As for helping us out to find a good outfitter next time we come up it would be much appreciated.
dd  |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
... forget it I was doing goood staying off this thread.  I've typed out a response a couple times in this thread too. I'll just continue to observe.;) |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
good lord get of the guys back. he had a bad trip and was venting!! sorry to here about the bad trip dd. this is one of the reasons ive took so long to join this forum. say one little thing the wrong way and get bashed like crazy.
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RE: I'm Back from Alberta
Wilks thank you but do not judge this forum based on just a few ...most of the guys on here are good people ...good hunters and like to share their experiences good AND badwith others ...yeh there are SOME on here who think they are the "DEER GODS" of the big woods They are Jim Shockey and Jackie Bushman wanna be'swho like to nit pick and criticize othersbut hey ...they are members toand have a right to post thier thoughts just like I do... I know that not everyone on here will agree with what I might have to say (although they should) BUT when I make a post for some reason it seems to stir up a lot of emotion for whatever reasons ... I honestly thought that seeing as how I had posted very little on this forum in the last year that this one would fall off the front page really quick but hoped it might be of help to someone in the future who might be going north to hunt ...anyway "opinion" is what makes the world go around and is the life blood of the forum ...so guys feel free to PILE ON ...the good doctor has big sholders !
dd  |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
lol dd i have also learned alot from this forum a lot of very knowledgable
(spelling) hunters here also i just dont understand why these few people are so hell bent on bashing people. |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
ORIGINAL: WILKESFASTJAY lol dd i have also learned alot from this forum a lot of very knowledgable (spelling) hunters here also i just dont understand why these few people are so hell bent on bashing people. dd |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
OHHH COME ON SAY IT!!! MIGHT AS WELL AD FUEL TO THE FIRE:D:D:D |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
BUT when I make a post for some reason it seems to stir up a lot of emotion for whatever reasons ... I honestly thought that seeing as how I had posted very little on this forum in the last year that this one would fall off the front page really quick but hoped it might be of help to someone in the future who might be going north to hunt DD you have 80 posts on your own thread (almost half the replies). How do you expect it to fall off the first page when you're revitalizing it everyday? Seems like you're talking to yourself most of the time. If you simply wanted to give people a heads up you would have said your story and be done with it. Fact is you seem to want/need the attention for some reason;). Let this thing die it's taking up bandwith. Sincerely, Your buddy.......NYBH |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
ORIGINAL: NY Bowhunter BUT when I make a post for some reason it seems to stir up a lot of emotion for whatever reasons ... I honestly thought that seeing as how I had posted very little on this forum in the last year that this one would fall off the front page really quick but hoped it might be of help to someone in the future who might be going north to hunt DD you have 80 posts on your own thread (almost half the replies). Let this thing die it's taking up bandwith. Sincerely, Your buddy.......NYBH Your ole redneck buddy dd |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
See what I mean!:D[8D]
*Sorry DD I just had to throw something in this thread for old times sake. The devil made me do it. |
RE: I'm Back from Alberta
Sorry, I just had to be #200:D
...I think just about everything has been covered on this one. |
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