RE: bad dog(s)!!
 

Well all I can say is I am glad that all the "Dog Hunters" opps I am sorry nusancie control experts are out in the mid west or up north somewhere. I live in a state that allows deer hunting with dogs. I for many years was a still hunter only having been brought up that way.

I have been on stand plenty of times, sometimes since well before dawn and had a pack of beagles or hounds chase a deer into the area I was hunting. I have made use of the situation and harvested the animal and other times I have let it continue to run. On the instances where the chase continued I have managed to kill some nice deer. The argument that the dogs will scare the deer out of a tract of land is nonesense. I will agree they will chase out which ever deer they are pursuing however alot of times it doesnt spoke most of the other deer in the area. When it does spoke them it usually only causes them to tip to around to find another vantage point to see whats going on and that has been to my bennifit.

Now I am one of "those" and yes throw your stones or what have you I really dont care. I am a proud hound/beagle/bird dog owner. I hunt deer with dogs! I hunt then with beagles, hounds and sometimes we use the bird dogs on small tracts(under 400 acres)of land so that we dont have to worry about the dogs getting away since they only wind/sight chase a few hundred yards and drop the chase and come back to the driver. I spend way to much time and energy and money in my dogs to let some one who calls themself a hunter because they follow every little piece of advice from a forum or from a magazine or tv show harm my dogs.

The dogs are only doing what is instinct to them, for those that dont know or understand a hound breeds instinct is to chase game, be it foxes, rabbits, bear, mt lion, deer, stags etc.. and this is how alot of hunting was done in the old world and over across the pond as well. But it is not a instinct limited to a hound breed it is a instinct in all breeds of dogs. No need in punishing the dog for something it is instinct for it to do.

I do undertsand the problem with feral dogs and yes it is easy to tell the difference however you cannot say it is a feral dog simply because it has no collar that is not vaild. Case in point I had one of my best gyps out last season and somehow here collar ended up off, now I have my theory on this but that is not relavent. Anyway I looked for her until I finally heard her running and was able to keep up and catch her crossing a logging road on a neighboring landowners property however if someoen woudl have shot her just because she didnt have a collar and they thought she was feral I would have been might upset. So please make sure you are looking at a feral animal and not a domestic one who has pulled out of its collar.

I usually try really hard to keep my dogs on our tracts of land so as not to disturb anyone hunting the adjoining tracts.. on place we hunt they adjoining land on two sides is leased by two different groups who only still hunt. I can say we get along wonderfully with both of these groups. They know we are not trying to intentionally make drives or run the dogs through their land. They have killed deer that are being run or have been stirred up by our dogs including some very nice, very good scoring deer.

I do relize that there are those who hunt with dogs in a fashion that is pretty much poaching and when I see these actions I call the game wardens, not shoot an animal since it is not his fault.

Here in VA it is a felony to kill a hunting dog and it is a law that every sticks to including the local courts. I have seen firsthand the results of someone shooting a hunting dog and how unpleasant their life becomes. I do know in some states it is legal to shoot a free roaming dog who posses a threat and I have no problem as long as it is a legit threat.. simply chasing a deer or other game animal is not a threat.. chasing people is a threat.

Before you start with the I am not a hunter because I hunt with dogs let me say this. I have killed a few P&Y and B&C deer still hunting and still am a huge still hunter. I do 90% of my harvesting with a bow and blackpowder. I run dogs for the fellowship and to hear them run. No difference in that then those who run rabbit dogs, or use turkey dogs. Actually on a whole our club does most of its harvesting still hunting no matter the season.

Go ahead and throw your stones and blast away about how I am a unethical hunter. All I can say is unless you have tried it with a group who does it legally and safely dont knock it. I mean I could get on here and preach about how hunting over a pile of bait or right beside a automatice feeder is unethical as well. But the way I look at it is this, to each their own but as a whole community we need to stand up and support each others chosen LEGAL methods and stules of hunting and when we see a hunter acting in a illegal matter than we turn it over to the authorities and police ourselves. Otherwise the bickering amongst us is only making us weaker and the antis stronger....

Just some thoughts... not a sermon

RE: bad dog(s)!!
 

I have lived in VA my entire life and understand that running deer dogs has a long history and tradition in our state. That being said, you dog guys only ever mention the laws that protect the dogs. Not once in your post did you mention trespassing or having your dogs on leads or leashes and making sure the collar stays on. I had a piece of property that I used to own that the local dog hunters were adjacent to. In 5 years of owning that property, I never had a hunt without having to deal with there dogs. I did not shoot them, but instead went to the club and told them to control their dogs. All I ever got was attitude and threats of harm if I ever shot their dogs. I got the authorities involved and nothing ever happened. I ended up selling the land because I could not hunt without the dogs running. The simple, realistic fact is that most clubs with dogs know that the dogs run onto other land and do nothing about it. You yourself said your dog crossed a road onto other property and the only solution you gave is you would have been mad and handled it if someone shot your dog. I think all that the hunters on this topic are asking is that you control your dogs, ON YOUR LAND! I have never shot a dog, but I understand the motives of those who have. How are you going to make sure your dogs are not going to ruin your neihbors hunt the next time? I know, dogs will chase, that's what they do. What a crock, control your animals.

RE: bad dog(s)!!
 

Ya i really cant condone shooting dogs. Its really not that big of deal and ifi remeber correctly it only chased away a spike soooooo who cares about a spike **** happens, I mean if it chased away a 150+ class deer i would be extremly pissed but knowing the dogs scared it away and not me would give me hope at a later shot!

RE: bad dog(s)!!
 

I think that what virginia mike sez makes good sense.

First and foremost YOUR DOGS = YOUR RESPONSIBILITY.

Second YOUR DOGS should be restrained (by whatever means necessary) to YOUR PROPERTY.

But when dogs just run the country, unrestrained and uncontrolled and come onto MY PROPERTYthey become MY PROBLEM and I solve MY PROBLEMS, on MY PROPERTY- MY WAY.

Lots of hard earned $$ in to property, property taxes, travel, upkeepare invested (by our guests also). It isan investment and I protect my investments the best I see fit.

An arrow or two or a couple slugs are cheap insurance that my investment will indeed pay off.

"Gee sorry guys that those dogs are running the property and deer, maybe try next season or next year."

"Oh all that money for gas and lodging, permits, licences.........sorry. Let the dogs do their thing."

NOT!

RE: bad dog(s)!!
 

Don't lock it now. I enjoy this topic. Its always fun seeing all the internet tough guys who can't kill deer, but only kill fido's.

RE: bad dog(s)!!
 

same thing has been happening for years around my hunting property. after I shot a doe running throught the thicket, three dogs came and took her down. well that will never happen again. If people aren't smart enough to keep their dogs tied up during the hunting season, they diserve it. It's no more dangerous than risking getting hit by a car.

RE: bad dog(s)!!
 

just wanted to say..... The way a drive works is... People get in a line, someone else gets on the other end of the woods, and then the people push the deer towards the person at the other end. If one of those people accidently runs a 180+ monster the other way, does it mean that the hunter gets to kill him for that? On the other hand, he might run that deer right to the hunter. Dogs can do the same things. but whatever. The dog you just shot might have brought a huge buck right to you. You lose.

RE: bad dog(s)!!
 

Well maybe I didnt get my coloring pencils out and draw it in blac and white so here it is... If you read my post you see that one tract of ours is adjoined by two large tracts that are still hunt only clubs.. we have great relationships with these guys. One club is strictly a trophy club (minimum of 8 points and past the ears in order for them to harvest) we have in place our own buck managment practices which may not be the exact same one (ours is 16" minimum on the tract). These guys have no problems with the way we hunt with dogs.. we try to make our drives on the edges of the property moving toward the interior of our tract to minimize the chances of the deer/dogs running onto their land. We also place back standers in place in case of the deer circling. In the case that the dogs leave the property then 1 person and it is usually me, tracks the dogs and catches them as quickly as paossible.

You make mention that Idid not say anything in regards to collars etc.. all of my dogs have atleast two and alot of the time three collars on. One is a basic neon green collar with my name and cell phone(cell phone so that I can get the call as soon as someone catches my dog and retreive it quickly) sometimes a second blaze orange collar with my name, the dogs name and my phone numbers on it. They will always have a tracking collar on them so that I can track them in the instance they get off our tract of land. This allows me to locate and retrieve them as quickly as possible so as not to interrupt anyone else who is hunting in adjoining areas. I spend $150 per collar for the tracking collars and the system that tracks the collars gost me over $1000, I am serious about being able to keep acurate account and location on all my dogs.When I have to track a dog who has left the property I always leave my gun with someone else so that I can not be accused of road hunting. The only exception to this is if the are going into another tract that we have hunting rights to then I will keep it with me but once I leave our leases I leave the gun behind.

We do everything in our power to ensure the dogs do not leave the tract (when they do it is not doing us any good anyway) and in situations they do then we are quick to retrieve them and not allow them to run all over the countryside (once again not doing us any good and it doesnt make for good neighbor relationships).

Virginia Mike I know that alot of the clubs out there that run dogs are not like us, that they do allow the dogs to leave their peace and some do drop dogs on other tracts on purpose in order to run the deer into theirs. I DO NOT AGREE with this style of dog hunting at all. In fact I am against it as it is not only illegal it is unethical.Clubs like that are one of the reasons that dog hunting is becoming more disliked by those who have never done it the correct and legal way to see if they like it or not. They cause people to form instant bad opinions about it and assume that everyone with a dog box is like that. We are quick to call the local wardens(I have both of our local wardens cell numbersboth their state issued and personalphones in order to get ahold of them when needed)or sheriffs office and give them the needed information. We have helped with leads leading to the catching of several spotlighters.

Our club is also one of the founding clubs for a annual veterens hunt that we help put on every year. This is done on state park lands and is a great day. We enjoy great meals, good hunting (man drives made to the veterens) and great fellowship amongst local hunters, veterens and state officals.

SO please before you go put everyone with a dog box in the same group stop and think.. There are still alot of clubs who do it legally and are good guys. But yes there are those such as the case in every activity that are not shinning examples and yet those are the ones that everyone bases their opinions on.

As I do for everyone who has never done it or who has had a bad experience with it I openly invite you to attend a hunt with us at any point this year. Maybe you will see first hand that all of us houndsmen are not road hunters or slob hunters.NOthing ventured nothing gained.

RE: bad dog(s)!!
 

Ha! That's funny!

A cute little peanut gallery of non-property owners.

Chirp.

Chirp.

RE: bad dog(s)!!
 

Well for someone who doesnt know me or who I am or anything about me you sure are awfully sure of yourself arent you. I never once said I was not a property owner. However I dont feel the need to throw it aroudn to try to impress people that I own property in order to feel good about myself.

Maybe in Il. that is how you make yourself look and feel important. But around here being a landowner isnt a huge deal. I mean it is nice to be a landowner but that doesnt make me any more important than someone who is unfortunate enough or evenchooses notto own land.

I dont see your justification in being a landowner making you any more important or less important than someone who is leasing land or someone who has rights to hunt via a good old fashion handshake. But then again this could be along the lines of thinking a "trophy" deer is one who scores a certain score or above. While those deer are nice, any deer be it buck or doe should be treated as a trophy. It does not make it the memories any less valuable if it is a 3 pointer, it doesnt taste different if it is a doe or a 189" P&Y (maybe a little tougher but still the same taste) they day that the memories of being afield and friendships stop becoming more important and the size of your harvest becomes more important then it is time to hang up the bow, rifle, shotgun and black powder and take up another hobby such as golf.

I know this is a tad off subject but I dont see where someone who doesnt own land where their opinion is any less vaulable or insightful or what have you than someone who owns land. This is coming from a landowners point of veiw..

So before you ASSume something about someone then maybe you should ask.