BUSTED..but innocent
 

Two of my buddies were busted last week for spot lighting...but here is story. The three of us were camped out on property owned by one these two friends, this is land that we hunt every year. I had to go to work or I'd be involved in this also. Late monday evening buddy
#1 shoots a nice buck within legal hunting hours. Buck takes off and makes it into some dence brush. Buddy #2 hears shot and comes to see what #1 had shot. They decide to give deer a little time to lay up before start searching for him. When they do start looking, they realize the deer went farther than expected. It is beginning to get dark and they continue to trail the deer. One of them have a flash light and use it to trail the deer,all the time finding good blood and locations where deer had laid down. Some where in this process,they are hailed and told to put down weapons. Gamewarden is there. All are legal and carry proper ID. Warden charges them with spotlighting. No amount of talk could convince him otherwise. They are hauled off to jail, weapons confiscated. I get the call to come bail them out. Waiting on a court date. We can not believe this is happening. They have talked with lawyer but they should never have been put in this position, Its a huge pile of crap!!! Lawyer says it would all be easier to just pay fines, several 100$ each, but it would be on their records. What the heck do you do?

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

That is freakin' awful. I hate the thought that honest people could get into so much trouble over nothing. Some of those game wardens have a chip on their shoulder, some but not all, I hope ya'll get everything straitened out, and let everybody know what happens.

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

Man that's crazy. I had no idea that you could be busted for looking for a deer you shot after dark? I think it is safe to say that all of us hunters have to pulled out the flash lights to track track game after dark,or just to be able to see our way back to camp.

How big of flash light were your buddies useing? Was it big enough to cause doubt on the warden part? Did the warden take the time to check out the blood trail?

Bad luck, the warden must of been upset about somthing.

Sorry to hear the news.


KEEP HUNTING THE GREAT OUTDOORS & GOD ALIVE, PASS IT ON!

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

Buddies each had a flashlight. One was a mini Mag with two AA batteries, The other light was just a two cell light with size D battery. Game warded would not listen to them. I realize that I was not there but also know the character off the two. Neither have any type of record or history with the gamewarden and since I hunt with them regularly know them as two upstanding middle aged men. They went along with everything the warden requested and they told me that they
were not smart A$$es. Only thing we can find out about this warden is that he is not from local area and that he was in the area because there had been alot of complaints about road hunters. Buddies were on own property several hundred yds from a road and on foot. I have been trying to contact the local warden since I have met him a few times in the past. Buddies live about 40 miles away and I live with in a few miles of the our hunting spot. Just trying to figure this whole thing out.

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

Yeah it does suck and think a warning would've been the better route. GW sounds like he either had a Poacher in the area(and thought your buds were it) or a power trip. You must have a law that say no loaded guns after legal. Here we have the same law, if you wound a deer, you can track it with your firearm after dark....but unloaded. The GW's have no way to know if you shot it legally though, so Blood Trail is moot. Not to defend his actions here, but poachers (which he thought your buds were) are known to lie. As far as legal action, "if" you have a law stating it is unlawful to possess a firearm after legal even while tracking wounded game (most place do for safety reasons), than really nothing you can do, sorry. Obviously the lawyer they consulted feels the same way. I wish I could give you a better answer, but law is law. It usually is up to the GW if they enforce it and what degree. In this case he took it all the way, which really sucks.

Maybe the old saying "one to grow on". Next time either track without the weapon or come back the next morning to make it legit.

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

Ok the first thing i would do is research. here the law concerning the use of a spotlight in your nieghbor arkansas: <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> 5-67-106. Use of spotlight.


(a) It shall be unlawful to use a spotlight from any public road, street, or highway except for use by:


(1) A law enforcement officer, game and fish officer, emergency service worker, or utility company employee in the
performance of his duties;


(2) A person or his employee to examine real or personal property or livestock owned or rented by the person; or


(3) A person to assist in the repair or removal of a motor vehicle or other property.


(b) This section shall not apply within the boundaries of a city of the first class or a city of the second class.


(c) A violation of this section shall be a Class C misdemeanor

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Now in arkansas it is legal to shine a spotlight on your property or leased(rented).
Now i looked at the definition of night hunting and i don't see this fitting it.
If it was me i would do some research in oklahoma. get my stuff straight. game wardens have supervisors .i would write a letter ,tasteful and professional, and express your problem with the arrest. send a copy of the law like this one above . and any others that you can find that pertain. this shows your serious. I would stress that you were only intending to find the game as the agency would want you to do. you did have firearms due to the late time it was shot and they couldn't be left unsecured. see what the response is. you would be basically filing a complaint. which the GW isnt going to like . it doesn't hurt you just makes him have to explain his actions which is ok .
Now if that doesnt work you go to court. you can defend yourself . it will be in a municipal court or low court. you can question the officer . put him in the hot seat. he will give his side first. listen!!!!! and then you get to question him. be cool and think about your questions. you want to trip him up and get him frustrated. catch him in something and damage his credibility with the court. he may be good but do your best. then state your case ,show the law. then the pros. att is going to ask you questions . whatever you do be cool and calm. answer honest and don't tell to much.
also you need to request per Freedom of information act(foi)a copy of his arrest report and all document pertaining to the arrest. see what he says prior to court so you can question him on his documentation. a bad report will hurt him and help you.
You have nothing to lose except money and guns. you need to defend yourself. you can do it. just prepare .and research.

SOUTH ARKANSAS REBEL

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

Sounds like this game warden thinks he's dirty harry of the woods or something. Probably doesn't like deer hunters. He should have listened to there story and went and looked at the blood trail. If I where these guys I would fight this to the death. They're protecting there good name!!! Good luck!!!

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

Talked with local GW this am. off the record. He said Supervisor is
upset with the ticketing officer. Best protocall was not used in this situation. They are trying to figure out how to get out of this and still save face. They realize that they will have a hard time making this stick and much time wasted and lots of POed locals. I'll give the ticketing GW the doubt and realize that his is not the easiest job. He was out of his normal area, he did try to make radio contact with local GW during the offense but was not able to contact him. Guess he did his best, we all make wrong choices sometime. This is one of those cases. Just hope that this can be corrected.

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

Hate to say it, but something just don't sound right. They were several hundred yards off he road in dense brush with two small flashlights? It sounds like the game warden was investigating night hunting in the area. Often wardens will come in from out of area when the local wardens appear to be not doing their job for some reason. Wardens can't wander around in the woods at night just by chance running into a violator. Another thing that far off the road it would be extremely hard to see two small flashlights. Not being there, I'm very suspicious. A lawyer not willing to take the case is another thing. Try contacting another lawyer, preferably one that is a hunter, see what kind of judge it will go before and cross your fingers.

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

if this happens to any one else-as soon as you are allowed out of police custody get a couple of witnesses (preferably another game warden or law enforcement officer) and go back to the scene and start trailing that deer agin.(explain every thing that happened , time of shot-how long you looked for the deer, what type of blood trail ect.. any info so that they can see your story is true) Then if they have the proof of this and what you said matches the eveidence just maybe the wrong can be rectified before it gets to court. also know all the hunting laws , regulations about -night hunting or after dark game retreival. i dont see how two men can be punished for something almost every hunter has done or will do at some point in their lives. after all if you hunt and shoot a deer , if you have`nt found it before dark most people are going to look for it-thats only normal as well as ethical hunting practices. although i am sure that many actual poachers has used the same excuse --so im sure it looks bad for your friends. having a lawyer and judge who hunts is also a plus im sure since they would proabably better understand about the circumstances.

Hopalong , hope it all works out for your buddies. annie.

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

I have met a lot of gamewardens, seems many are looking for something to blame. Not all but many. Don't let that out of area game warden but a bad wrap on ethical hunters. The alternative was to leave a dead or dying dear in the field, how ethical would that have been? good job, and fight it.

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

Ask your lawyer for a copy of the applicable statute;the ticket doesn't give much information and sometimes the title of the charge is misleading(example...Driving while intoxicated... but the statute says &quot;no person shall operate a much broader term...). I remember iat our hunter safety course we were told to call the game warden and advise if we were going to be looking for a downed deer after dark. this seemed over the top at the time but now I see why. Chances are your innocent activity nevetheless fits the statutory language. Perhaps your lawyer could speak with the person prosecuting the case even if it is the GW, and work towards a compromise, or perhaps a trial is best. No better way to tell your story than to present the facts

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

BSH, you are correct in the wording of regulations. Regs say to contact gamewarden and advise of activities. Situation though was we were camped out on location and the way things happened it was easier for them to stay on the trail of the deer than to detour to camp for the cell phone to make the call. Yes a mistake was made. I guess the aggrivation of the situation is that they were doing their best to recover the deer and never in wildest dreams would have considered spot lighting deer.
Timber crusier stated that something did not sound right &quot;several hundred yds off of road in the brush&quot;. Probably could have described a little better. Area being hunted is a little over a square section of land. Scrub oak is predominant. Several lanes were pickups are driven to check cattle and water tanks are numerous. So buddies were on one of these lanes and the county road was about 300 yds away. We found the buck next morning. Local GW is aware that we tagged deer in the next morning. He told me that he had gone back to location to check out story, found blood trail and where we had gutted the deer. Talked with buddies last night and guess the powers that be and local GW have been in touch with each other. Looks like things may be looking up. Do not really have solid info to pass on but will post when find out more.

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

The other bad thing about this is that because the deer was not found until the next day, the meat is probably tainted. Don't know if I would eat it myself. Regardless of whether you think the meat is bad or whether they eat the meat, science says that in 12+ hours, there are bacteria in that meat. Can the game warden be charged with waste of game meat?

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; What I'd do is try to meet with the DA or one of his/her assistants. Take all your paperwork and lay the deal out. Wear a coat and tie,and if you have even a smudge on your record... be up front. Be polite,but when he asks how he can help.... tell him that the charges are completely unfounded and you think they should be dismissed. You might also check to see if these particular GW's have written alot of tickets in your area for similar offenses. If all else fails,go to the local newspaper and see if you can generate some interest in the case...... Best of luck!

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

here`s a what if scenerio, what if a guy has stock and hears a ruckus amongst the stock at night and goes out to check it--more than likely a person will take his /her gun with them on the chance it may be a predetor attacking the stock, if it`s dark of course you`ll need a light, so if the gw happens along your property line as you are carring the gun and light either on the way to check the stock or back from it, will you be caught for spotlighting?

my neighbors have stock AND poach so it`s hard to tell what they are doing out in the middle of the night on a hillside in the cow pasture although usually it`s the latter. but who knows at what moment it may be the former?

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

We've had some of our local GW's more or less forced into retirement the last yr or two and the young guys that are their replacements (at least the ones I've meet) seem to have a chip on their shoulder it's the letter of the law and that's it and as we al know there are certain situations that requir ethical inturpritation I've meet these guys in a none proffestional setting (outdoor shows ect.) and even there these guys come across at best as real Jerks now the have a very difficult job i mean lets face it most everyone they walk up on has a loaded gun or other weapon. I think alot of the younger guys are on a power trip and hopfully will mellow with age

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

The game warden must of been a rental. I would plead not guilty and tell the judge my side of the story along with your bud. I wish ya luck

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

I guess it depends on how the law reads. Your friends may be out of luck. The game warden has probably busted other people for less.
I think in Indiana you can't carry a loaded gun in the woods after dark. I don't know about where you are at. The law is the law, and the wardens get paid to enforce the good and the bad laws.

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

I agree with timbercruiser,something doesn't sound right.

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

If the deer was recovered then by looking at the eyes a warden or deer biologist can tell when the deer died. In NY when you check the deer they always check the eyes and make sure that you didn't shoot it at night.

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

JPM,

How can they tell when the deer died by the eyes??



Clark

Houston, TX

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

JC-1, thats easy they have their front hoofs up covering them due to the bright SPOTLIGHTS<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>!

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

I am not against GW's or police officers in any way, but this is just one more example of the coruption in the system. In my opinion the GW should be fired just for giving a stupid ticket like this. It is amazing what a badge will do to some people.

--------------------------------------------
Hunting the Piney Woods of Deep East Texas.

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

I read a key sentence in one of your posts. You said the Supervising CO was trying to find a way to save face. That means he is worried about public opinion. I would put a little thought into this. Can you find a way for him to save face? If all goes to heck, publicizing this at the local paper, state outdoors paper/magazine, etc, will really put the COs in a bad light and they seem to be worried about it already. However, going public will put them in a corner with no way out, so be careful about this route. If you get a respected outdoor writer to put an article in a news source about it, believe me, the COs will have a reaction, might be good for you, might be bad, but there will be a reaction. I think getting the officers report is an excellent idea. See what kind of writeup he did, what facts were in there, what was his opinion. I thank you for posting this as I will be extra careful about this in the future. Funny thing is, I shot a nice 8 pointer a couple of years ago right before dark. He didn't run too far, but by the time I was prepared to field dress him, it was dark. I ran back to the pickup, but the only light I could find was my portable spotlight. So I brought that back and used it to field dress him. Now that I think about it, I am pretty sure my gun was at the kill site. How bad does that look? And I was totally innocent.

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

In some states, the law says you can't be in the woods with a gun after sunset while deer hunting. Nothing prevents them from tracking the deer with a flashlight after sunset, however they can't have a weapon with them. Maybe that's what the game warden was charging those guys for. I know it sucks, but everyone needs to know what the laws are in the state they hunt. I've seen too many guys get in trouble because they didn't know. However, in this case, I think the game warden was still wrong and it is suspicious that he happened to be there in the dark, well off the road.

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

I live in OK and I would like to know which GW it was that gave the ticket. I grew up knowing the three local GW and they were all great(now retired) but would bust you if you were in the wrong, but also they had common sense. The new generation we have is alot harder to get along with and act like they don't care about the people.

We got a new one about 8 years ago and he got shot at several times before he decided to mellow and do his job right.
He would pull stunts like check deer tags/lic in camo in the field during rifle season. Jump out at poachers with no backup and no light to shine, and his weapon a 9 mm against three with high powers.
He finally learned.

RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

ya that doesnt sound right. and they wont get there guns back if they pay the fines anyway so i would fight. i would do somthing because they had a lagitament reason why they were out there. well i hope u the best of luck

<blockquote>Shoot Em, Eat Em, Mount Em
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RE: BUSTED..but innocent
 

Are your buddies being charged with illegal spotlighting of deer or having loaded firearms in the woods after legal hunting hours? Or both?

<---Doug---<<<