My buck's stages of growth (UPDATES)
07-16-2006, 10:01 PM
#51
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Morgantown, WV
Posts: 808
RE: My little buck's stages of growth
ORIGINAL: quiksilver
Nice pics JH - looks like you might have another Goliath on your hands.
Just wondering, exactly howtall a fence to you need to keep an adolescent rutting buck contained?
He looks pretty tame, I'm guessing he gets a lot of human contact. Do you guys plan on leaving him alone through Oct.-Nov.?
Anyway, nice deer - keep up with the pictures.
Nice pics JH - looks like you might have another Goliath on your hands.
Just wondering, exactly howtall a fence to you need to keep an adolescent rutting buck contained?
He looks pretty tame, I'm guessing he gets a lot of human contact. Do you guys plan on leaving him alone through Oct.-Nov.?
Anyway, nice deer - keep up with the pictures.
i hope i never have to find out but if he would ever charge at me i'm gonna snatch him above the brow tines and just overpower him. that won't be bad seeing as he's only 80 pounds. but after this year i'm just gonna have to stay clear all together cause he'll be gaining some body mass.
07-16-2006, 10:05 PM
#52
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Morgantown, WV
Posts: 808
RE: My buck's stages of growth (UPDATES)
ORIGINAL: Bill Yox
Jeff, Ive seen where a terribly damaged antler does fine the following season, or maybe just one atrophied year, then good. Is he growing new or pink velvet near the break? How are the flies? Id also check the pedicle base to make sure he didnt have a stress fracture at the base too. Sorry if this is all stuff you already know, just making suggestions. Hope he does well for you!
Jeff, Ive seen where a terribly damaged antler does fine the following season, or maybe just one atrophied year, then good. Is he growing new or pink velvet near the break? How are the flies? Id also check the pedicle base to make sure he didnt have a stress fracture at the base too. Sorry if this is all stuff you already know, just making suggestions. Hope he does well for you!
But from as far as I can tell, the velvet on that antler is destroyed. Where it burst at the time, that whole section of antler just fell off. And at the point of th original puncture which is near the brow time, the velvet has started peeling off and the rest of the velvet on the antler looks dead.
I heard someone say that there is a bug out there that will bore a hole in a deer's antlers and cause this. I've never heard of such a thing, have you? To me it looks like he just got it caught on something.
07-17-2006, 10:50 AM
#53
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brockport, NY
Posts: 613
RE: My buck's stages of growth (UPDATES)
Ok, I might have read the post wrong yesterday, but I thought you had said the antler was damaged, THEN it swelled and burst. NOW I see what you are saying. The antler, in normal growth, just started to bulge and enlarge in one spot, popped, and the antler broke at that spot? This sorta supports a theory I have...
I hear folks mention that bug that bores into antler too. I also hear how it flies at a great rate of speed to embed itself into the antlers. To that nonsense I say look, theres a fly that bites deer too, right? And sometimes it bites us, or anything else. Well, if there were a bug going that fast into antlers, wouldnt one run into us by now too? Hahaha, on a more serious note...I truly think the cause of acorn points, bulges, and hollow spots or voids/cavities in antlers is simply a rupture. The velvet is a housing for the vessels to carry mineral-laden blood to the antler "carriage" and the hairs on the velvet help to cool the blood so it leaves this mineral as a sediment or deposit on the antler surface, then returns into the system to repeat. Sometimes, with NO damage, bug bites, bumping or anything that I have been able to see, the point or beam will bulge and rupture. Once that happens, it bleeds freely and also allows mineral or sediment to form where ever this bleeding occurs. Its not under any direction, or pressure like the system was, so the resulting material is very porous and weak. Thats sorta like some club or pendular droptines, poor circulation coming back up. So, I think your deer had such a rupture and weakening that you never saw, until it backed up and exited the velvet. Yours is a different scenario perhaps, but the basic rupture and resulting void is common. This probably sounds like alot of BS, but thats what I believe happens! Im not as sure on yours, without seeing some before and after pics, though. Cool stuff, them antlers, huh? lol.
I hear folks mention that bug that bores into antler too. I also hear how it flies at a great rate of speed to embed itself into the antlers. To that nonsense I say look, theres a fly that bites deer too, right? And sometimes it bites us, or anything else. Well, if there were a bug going that fast into antlers, wouldnt one run into us by now too? Hahaha, on a more serious note...I truly think the cause of acorn points, bulges, and hollow spots or voids/cavities in antlers is simply a rupture. The velvet is a housing for the vessels to carry mineral-laden blood to the antler "carriage" and the hairs on the velvet help to cool the blood so it leaves this mineral as a sediment or deposit on the antler surface, then returns into the system to repeat. Sometimes, with NO damage, bug bites, bumping or anything that I have been able to see, the point or beam will bulge and rupture. Once that happens, it bleeds freely and also allows mineral or sediment to form where ever this bleeding occurs. Its not under any direction, or pressure like the system was, so the resulting material is very porous and weak. Thats sorta like some club or pendular droptines, poor circulation coming back up. So, I think your deer had such a rupture and weakening that you never saw, until it backed up and exited the velvet. Yours is a different scenario perhaps, but the basic rupture and resulting void is common. This probably sounds like alot of BS, but thats what I believe happens! Im not as sure on yours, without seeing some before and after pics, though. Cool stuff, them antlers, huh? lol.
07-30-2006, 08:03 PM
#55
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
RE: My buck's stages of growth (UPDATES)
ORIGINAL: Bill Yox
Ok, I might have read the post wrong yesterday, but I thought you had said the antler was damaged, THEN it swelled and burst. NOW I see what you are saying. The antler, in normal growth, just started to bulge and enlarge in one spot, popped, and the antler broke at that spot? This sorta supports a theory I have...
I hear folks mention that bug that bores into antler too. I also hear how it flies at a great rate of speed to embed itself into the antlers. To that nonsense I say look, theres a fly that bites deer too, right? And sometimes it bites us, or anything else. Well, if there were a bug going that fast into antlers, wouldnt one run into us by now too? Hahaha, on a more serious note...I truly think the cause of acorn points, bulges, and hollow spots or voids/cavities in antlers is simply a rupture. The velvet is a housing for the vessels to carry mineral-laden blood to the antler "carriage" and the hairs on the velvet help to cool the blood so it leaves this mineral as a sediment or deposit on the antler surface, then returns into the system to repeat. Sometimes, with NO damage, bug bites, bumping or anything that I have been able to see, the point or beam will bulge and rupture. Once that happens, it bleeds freely and also allows mineral or sediment to form where ever this bleeding occurs. Its not under any direction, or pressure like the system was, so the resulting material is very porous and weak. Thats sorta like some club or pendular droptines, poor circulation coming back up. So, I think your deer had such a rupture and weakening that you never saw, until it backed up and exited the velvet. Yours is a different scenario perhaps, but the basic rupture and resulting void is common. This probably sounds like alot of BS, but thats what I believe happens! Im not as sure on yours, without seeing some before and after pics, though. Cool stuff, them antlers, huh? lol.
Ok, I might have read the post wrong yesterday, but I thought you had said the antler was damaged, THEN it swelled and burst. NOW I see what you are saying. The antler, in normal growth, just started to bulge and enlarge in one spot, popped, and the antler broke at that spot? This sorta supports a theory I have...
I hear folks mention that bug that bores into antler too. I also hear how it flies at a great rate of speed to embed itself into the antlers. To that nonsense I say look, theres a fly that bites deer too, right? And sometimes it bites us, or anything else. Well, if there were a bug going that fast into antlers, wouldnt one run into us by now too? Hahaha, on a more serious note...I truly think the cause of acorn points, bulges, and hollow spots or voids/cavities in antlers is simply a rupture. The velvet is a housing for the vessels to carry mineral-laden blood to the antler "carriage" and the hairs on the velvet help to cool the blood so it leaves this mineral as a sediment or deposit on the antler surface, then returns into the system to repeat. Sometimes, with NO damage, bug bites, bumping or anything that I have been able to see, the point or beam will bulge and rupture. Once that happens, it bleeds freely and also allows mineral or sediment to form where ever this bleeding occurs. Its not under any direction, or pressure like the system was, so the resulting material is very porous and weak. Thats sorta like some club or pendular droptines, poor circulation coming back up. So, I think your deer had such a rupture and weakening that you never saw, until it backed up and exited the velvet. Yours is a different scenario perhaps, but the basic rupture and resulting void is common. This probably sounds like alot of BS, but thats what I believe happens! Im not as sure on yours, without seeing some before and after pics, though. Cool stuff, them antlers, huh? lol.
07-30-2006, 08:21 PM
#56
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
RE: My buck's stages of growth (UPDATES)
ORIGINAL: Bill Yox
Jhalfhill, I thought you might enjoy a pic of one of my yearlings from a couple years ago. Since then Ive had late fawns, and not as nice first racks. Let me know if you wanna see more!
Jhalfhill, I thought you might enjoy a pic of one of my yearlings from a couple years ago. Since then Ive had late fawns, and not as nice first racks. Let me know if you wanna see more!
You can try to resculpt that buck's eyes all you want but they are just gonna go back to the way they were when you let go. It seems even mother nature can learn a thing or two about anatomy from Bill Yox!
Let it be Bill, let it be.
Beautiful rack on him BTW.
07-30-2006, 09:40 PM
#57
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brockport, NY
Posts: 613
RE: My buck's stages of growth (UPDATES)
Hahaha, thats funny, ya got me there! Actually, Im trying to cover his eyes so he doesnt see that ugly sonofapup behind him! That young buck now has over 10 inch brows and still growing. How is Jeff's yearling doing? Also, about that larvae...Id have loved to see that, and would have to before commenting. I can say its definitely not the norm. Also, flies will lay eggs and have maggots emerge onnecrotic tissue, but not bore into living tissue.
07-30-2006, 10:17 PM
#58
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
RE: My buck's stages of growth (UPDATES)
Tell that to the cat, Bill.
I would love to know what insect was in the cat and believe it was the same thing in that spike I shot. Some guys call them blowflies but I don't believe that is the right name for them. The larvae seemed to eat a cavity in the cats face and the tissue died from being infected or cut off from the blood supply. The worm was no maggot from any fly I have ever seen. The thing was pretty big. Half inch anyway. And just one.
The cat is dead now and so is the spike. As a side note: the meat from that spike was very rank and stunk up the whole house when I cooked it. I fed the whole deer to my dog at the time. I was never sure if the brain intrusion had any thing to do with it or not. The deer was pretty darn healthy otherwise.
I agree with you about acorn points and such. If an insect caused that there would be a cavity. And, how would one explain racks where almost every point was an acorn. I've seen a few of those. That thing about flying at a high rate of speed is just kookie. If that were true I aint goin outside anymore!
I would love to know what insect was in the cat and believe it was the same thing in that spike I shot. Some guys call them blowflies but I don't believe that is the right name for them. The larvae seemed to eat a cavity in the cats face and the tissue died from being infected or cut off from the blood supply. The worm was no maggot from any fly I have ever seen. The thing was pretty big. Half inch anyway. And just one.
The cat is dead now and so is the spike. As a side note: the meat from that spike was very rank and stunk up the whole house when I cooked it. I fed the whole deer to my dog at the time. I was never sure if the brain intrusion had any thing to do with it or not. The deer was pretty darn healthy otherwise.
I agree with you about acorn points and such. If an insect caused that there would be a cavity. And, how would one explain racks where almost every point was an acorn. I've seen a few of those. That thing about flying at a high rate of speed is just kookie. If that were true I aint goin outside anymore!
07-31-2006, 10:32 PM
#59
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brockport, NY
Posts: 613
RE: My buck's stages of growth (UPDATES)
To complicate things, dead flesh is right near the live flesh, so the maggots eat "close to the wound". Remember how they used to use maggots to keep wounds clear back in those early wars? Some damaged antlers do still have fly pupae in the cavities showing maggot activity, too.
Like you said, what you saw probably wasnt a maggot, of course. Theres so many worms that deer are host to. They live part of their life being passed through the sinus, blood stream, through the digestive system, and some even make two trips through. Ive seen the worm infestations in the muscle and facia of mink, fox and other species.
Like you said, what you saw probably wasnt a maggot, of course. Theres so many worms that deer are host to. They live part of their life being passed through the sinus, blood stream, through the digestive system, and some even make two trips through. Ive seen the worm infestations in the muscle and facia of mink, fox and other species.
