Lanse couche couche

Hank,

I'm fine with some management. I mean, hell, the whole purpose of fish and game laws is tied to game management. However, my opinion is that it can be taken to extremes.for example,I think that there is a difference between wildlife officials managingdeer as a public resource, and someone who presumes to keep deer on their property with a high fence and then managethem as their property.

HuntinGUS

Biggest difference............No high fences.

ahankster

Lanse,
Yes, management could probably go too far. But, that is why the entire state of Miss went to a four point rule and there are stricter rules on some WMAs. That is why , for turkeys, there is a 6 inch beard rule here too.
Because some people will apply the "it's brown, it's down" or "ground check" to every deer they see and shoot every Jake that walks into the field. When the resource is plentiful, there is no reason to shoot spikes and fourpoints, let them grow up and shoot a larger, more mature animal.
I can't tell you how many small bucks I saw this year. The only two that I shot that were less than 8 points were a 5 and a 7, both of which were cull bucks. Had bad genetics and bad racks. Needed to be removed so they didn't pass the gene on. Had they had nice, uniform racks, I would have let them both walk.
My personal (that means for me, not anybody else) approach is that if I want meat, I shoot a doe (or does), if I want horns, they have to be outside the ears (at least 15 or 16 inch spread), and if it is a cull buck, that is ok too for meat.
That being said, I am in Mississippi, our herd is huge and getting bigger every year. I think we are around 1.9 million and last I read had the second biggest herd in the country.
That, makes for a very much different perspective. If I lived in a state with less of a resource, andthe only legal buck I saw all year was a four point, would I take it? probably not (not the first year anyhow).
R
Hank

ahankster

Gus,
A fence is just that and nothing more. I know all the arguments about nobody owning the animals and locking up the resource, etc. But if the land is posted, you can't go there anyway, whether there is a fence or not. My guess is that if you COULD, and there was no fence, you would gladly put your stand right on the fence line of a club that had such a management program. Why because you want to share in the resource that these guys worked so hard to develope. You have to look at it from their perspective too. They plant fields, work on roads, spend hard earned money on a lease, work on the plots and come up with a good managment program that protects their 1 1/2 to 3 1/2 year old bucks only to have it wasted because somebody over "there" shoots everything that crosses the line. Personally, I don't blame them for putting up a barrier. Not a barrier to enclose the animals so they are easier to shoot or take the sport out of it, but to keep their management efforts from being shorted out by those that don't have common ideals.

The REAL point here is fair chase. If an area of 4 or 5 THOUSAND acres has a fence, the hunt is still fair chase in my opinion. Maybe not in some.
If you get down to a couple hundred acres, then it becomes a real issue as to whether or not it is still fair chase.
R
Hank

3Ddepression

To me the fairness part simply implies that any individual animal has a fair chance of getting away, and recieves a fair, and respectful,treatment before and after the shot. If the fence consists of wire, or a conditioning inside the deers headto live witin a certain areamakes no difference.

To not manage, and care forthe herd is unfair chase in my eyes, since it leads to weaker individuals and make the herd more sensitive (to disease, extreme weather, loss of key animalsetc).

At what odds does the hunt get fair?If bowhunters, in general, fill 10% of the tags, bowhunting would not be one bit more fair chase,than a fenced huntwith 10 % chance of getting game. Whats fair? 20%? 50%? Put in any numbers you want to fill your quota of challenge.

IMO anyway

ipscshooter

I bet there are a lot of guys here who don't care if it's five million acres under high fence. They think that is exactly the same as drugging the deer and tying it to a tree...

I'm a little curious as to whether the "public resource" folks think that, since wildlife is a public resource, they shouldn't be constrained by property lines and no trespassing signs in their pursuit of game.

Lanse couche couche

IPS,

There is aBIG difference betweenkeeping people off one's property and confining game to one's property with a fence. If ownership of land simply translates into ownership of the game on it, then we are wasting our timewith hunting licenses, bag limits, and seasons.Who needs all that stuff if you are simply shooting what belongs exclusively to you?

Rebel Hog

Right on 3D. A deercan broad jump a 5' hog wire fence at will.

3Ddepression

But Reb?
Wouldnt wild boar also?

ahankster

OK,
But whether the barrier is water, rocks, fence etc, When is it no longer FAIR CHASE.
Some people don't want fences no matter how many thousands of acres, oh well.
(Lanse, I see your point and I think there is a large grey area here. What about a lake on your property? Do you own the Bass? The state puts seasons and limitations on these in may places as well.)

The big point here is hunter ethic, not rice bowls. If a person is on a 5000 acre island or fenced encloser, I would consider it a fair chase hunt. If a person is on a 2 acres plot with similar constraints it is not.

You may or may not agree with a person's right to fence of his or her property. That is property rights. But, I think the issue here is ethics and at what point does the hunter have an unfair advantage over the deer.

When does it no longer become fair chase?
R
Hank