Drawing the Line III
02-07-2006, 02:45 PM
#61
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Almost Heaven. Boone Co. WV
Posts: 1,003
RE: Drawing the Line III
I suspect that a lot of the animosity toward fences is driven by sour grapes. Maybe you are upset because some guy was able to harvest a mature buck behind a fence, that you couldn't harvest when it was 1 1/2 because you were on the wrong side of the fence. Maybe you are upset because you had to hunt a high-pressure, overhunted, public land and didn't even see a doe, much less a mature buck. So, instead of congratulating him on harvesting a nice buck, you mutter a few epithets his way. You tell him he's not a "real" hunter like you are, and all he did was shoot someone's pet. And, in so doing, you are alienating a fellow hunter. Someone who likely makes a pretty good living so that he could afford to hunt private land. Someone who may be politically connected and able to actually accomplish things that help the rest of us. Someone who might be reasonably well-educated and might help break the "inbred, toothless, beer swilling redneck" stereotype with which hunters are saddled in much of the main stream media.
Nah, I'd rather hold myself to a higher standard. Do what makes you happy, but don't try and sell me a $hit biscuit and tell me it tastes like chicken. I'll pass.
02-07-2006, 03:16 PM
#62
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New Jersey USA
Posts: 1,279
RE: Drawing the Line III
That depends on the type of hunting. If your method is to locate a high traffic area, set up a blind and wait to see what shows up, how is it relevant? Escaping is simply the ability to disappear into the nearest thicket, and for what it apparently isn't worth here, the high fenced ranch I hunted on ten years ago was much more heavily wooded than the low fenced property I hunt now. Maybe your definition of escape means to neighboring property where there's no management plan in place, so you can get a shot at every 1 1/2 year old buck that walks by.
How do you define wild? If someone fences 500, or 5000, or 500,000, or 5,000,000 acres, are the deer there no longer wild by definition?
How do you guys feel about red stag hunting in New Zealand? It's a non-indigenous species, surrounded by a God-made fence, with no ability to escape other than by swimming the Pacific Ocean. Is that OK simply because the fence isn't man-made?
02-07-2006, 03:53 PM
#63
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: pineview GF. USA
Posts: 374
RE: Drawing the Line III
If it's legal it's legal..however there is a lot of room for degree of accomplishment..(bragin rights) from killing a legal deer in a legal pen..(no matter if it's a one acre or 10,000 acre pen) that is nutritionally manipulated, that is able to roam, unmolested until "harvest" time. Than it is to killing a legal, wild, free roaming, hard hunted, open to everyone, all natural fed buck, that is shot at every time he steps into view of a hunter after he is one yr. old.
Sure you can build a buck with a massive rack..with the right feed, vitamins, left to age..but what's the accomplishment..might as well be growing big heads of lettuce for the farmer's market.
That's why I'm not in the least bet jealous or interested in seeing pictures of monster bucks of this type...might as well be looking at a prize tomato. They are already cloning bucks in Texas....where is the end to all of this manipulation?
Sure you can build a buck with a massive rack..with the right feed, vitamins, left to age..but what's the accomplishment..might as well be growing big heads of lettuce for the farmer's market.
That's why I'm not in the least bet jealous or interested in seeing pictures of monster bucks of this type...might as well be looking at a prize tomato. They are already cloning bucks in Texas....where is the end to all of this manipulation?
02-07-2006, 03:59 PM
#64
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Republic of Texas
Posts: 12,034
RE: Drawing the Line III
ORIGINAL: HuntinGUS
WOW. It's clear now. We should bow down to these masters of the hunting world because the may have some clout?Gimme a break!
Nah, I'd rather hold myself to a higher standard. Do what makes you happy, but don't try and sell me a $hit biscuit and tell me it tastes like chicken. I'll pass.
I suspect that a lot of the animosity toward fences is driven by sour grapes. Maybe you are upset because some guy was able to harvest a mature buck behind a fence, that you couldn't harvest when it was 1 1/2 because you were on the wrong side of the fence. Maybe you are upset because you had to hunt a high-pressure, overhunted, public land and didn't even see a doe, much less a mature buck. So, instead of congratulating him on harvesting a nice buck, you mutter a few epithets his way. You tell him he's not a "real" hunter like you are, and all he did was shoot someone's pet. And, in so doing, you are alienating a fellow hunter. Someone who likely makes a pretty good living so that he could afford to hunt private land. Someone who may be politically connected and able to actually accomplish things that help the rest of us. Someone who might be reasonably well-educated and might help break the "inbred, toothless, beer swilling redneck" stereotype with which hunters are saddled in much of the main stream media.
Nah, I'd rather hold myself to a higher standard. Do what makes you happy, but don't try and sell me a $hit biscuit and tell me it tastes like chicken. I'll pass.
02-07-2006, 04:54 PM
#65
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 638
RE: Drawing the Line III
The high fence issue. The way you see things depends on which side of the fence you get to hunt on. Just like in England, itsa class thing. Other times its because of the way the hunter was raised and what he has experienced in life, or lack of experience.......
Personally I wish every larger ranch in south Texas was high fenced, it would make it better for all involved.........
Personally I wish every larger ranch in south Texas was high fenced, it would make it better for all involved.........
02-07-2006, 07:56 PM
#67
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location:
Posts: 11,472
RE: Drawing the Line III
How do you define wild?
Maybe you are upset because some guy was able to harvest a mature buck behind a fence, that you couldn't harvest when it was 1 1/2 because you were on the wrong side of the fence.
And, in so doing, you are alienating a fellow hunter.
Someone who likely makes a pretty good living so that he could afford to hunt private land. Someone who may be politically connected and able to actually accomplish things that help the rest of us. Someone who might be reasonably well-educated and might help break the "inbred, toothless, beer swilling redneck" stereotype with which hunters are saddled in much of the main stream media.
02-07-2006, 10:59 PM
#68
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Republic of Texas
Posts: 12,034
RE: Drawing the Line III
Wow.I'm full of myself? Straight from Mr. Holier Than Thou himself. I've been insulted by aNew Yorker. I guess I'll take that as a compliment.
I'll be happy to rethink the fence issue, but you're not likely toapprove ofthe answer. I think people ought to be able to put a fence around their property if they want to. It's capitalism at work.I don'tcondoneshooting drugged deer in a 3 acre pen like on those videos in the Jimmy Houston thread, but if the land is big enough to support a genetically diverse herd, I don't seethe problem. There are high fence ranches in Texas that are so big that deer can live their whole lives without ever coming withinsight of the fence. But you're right. Regardless of the size of the property, those are just pets. No way they could be wild, even though they have no idea they are enclosed and they behave exactly the same way as if there had been no enclosure.
I wasn't looking for anyone to bow to me, although I guess you're welcome to if you feel you must. In the paragraph you're referring to, I wasn't talking about myself. I can't afford to hunt high fence. Tough enough paying for the low fence lease I hunt.
I've never paid to shoot deer in a petting zoo. I've been to petting zoos before and have seen how the animals behave. I've been ona high fenced property and have seen how the deer behaved. I've been on low fenced property and have seen how the deer behave. My personal observation of the deer was that there wasn't any behavioral difference between the two types of property. Thereis, of course,a clear difference in the behavior of the animals at the petting zoo. Apparently, you've never been on a high fenced ranch. If you have no experience other than some videos on the internet, you're welcome to your opinion, but it's about as valid as if I were to say,based upon your post above and my observations of Hillary Clinton in the media, that allNew Yorkers are pompous, self-righteous, holier-than-thou, know-it-alls. But, that would be an unfair generalization. Certainly, there are some New Yorkers who fit that description, just as there are some high fence operations that condone unethical practices, as in the Jimmy Houston videos. But, there are others that don't fit those descriptions.
I'll be happy to rethink the fence issue, but you're not likely toapprove ofthe answer. I think people ought to be able to put a fence around their property if they want to. It's capitalism at work.I don'tcondoneshooting drugged deer in a 3 acre pen like on those videos in the Jimmy Houston thread, but if the land is big enough to support a genetically diverse herd, I don't seethe problem. There are high fence ranches in Texas that are so big that deer can live their whole lives without ever coming withinsight of the fence. But you're right. Regardless of the size of the property, those are just pets. No way they could be wild, even though they have no idea they are enclosed and they behave exactly the same way as if there had been no enclosure.
I wasn't looking for anyone to bow to me, although I guess you're welcome to if you feel you must. In the paragraph you're referring to, I wasn't talking about myself. I can't afford to hunt high fence. Tough enough paying for the low fence lease I hunt.
I've never paid to shoot deer in a petting zoo. I've been to petting zoos before and have seen how the animals behave. I've been ona high fenced property and have seen how the deer behaved. I've been on low fenced property and have seen how the deer behave. My personal observation of the deer was that there wasn't any behavioral difference between the two types of property. Thereis, of course,a clear difference in the behavior of the animals at the petting zoo. Apparently, you've never been on a high fenced ranch. If you have no experience other than some videos on the internet, you're welcome to your opinion, but it's about as valid as if I were to say,based upon your post above and my observations of Hillary Clinton in the media, that allNew Yorkers are pompous, self-righteous, holier-than-thou, know-it-alls. But, that would be an unfair generalization. Certainly, there are some New Yorkers who fit that description, just as there are some high fence operations that condone unethical practices, as in the Jimmy Houston videos. But, there are others that don't fit those descriptions.
02-08-2006, 06:45 AM
#69
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Almost Heaven. Boone Co. WV
Posts: 1,003
RE: Drawing the Line III
Idon'tcondoneshooting drugged deer in a 3 acre pen like on those videos in the Jimmy Houston thread, but if the land is big enough to support a genetically diverse herd, I don't seethe problem. There are high fence ranches in Texas that are so big that deer can live their whole lives without ever coming withinsight of the fence
Why is therea need for the fence then?
The more we fight among ourselves, the easier it is to defeat us collectively.
02-08-2006, 06:52 AM
#70
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location:
Posts: 11,472
RE: Drawing the Line III
There are high fence ranches in Texas that are so big that deer can live their whole lives without ever coming withinsight of the fence. But you're right. Regardless of the size of the property, those are just pets. No way they could be wild, even though they have no idea they are enclosed and they behave exactly the same way as if there had been no enclosure.
Straight from Mr. Holier Than Thou himself. I've been insulted by aNew Yorker. I guess I'll take that as a compliment.
allNew Yorkers are pompous, self-righteous, holier-than-thou, know-it-alls.
Apparently, you've never been on a high fenced ranch
