Another question on ethics
12-21-2005, 01:43 PM
#41
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 10,277
RE: Another question on ethics
BC,
You assumed a bit more of a polite tone, so I will respond to you one more time. The other guy's comments about dog hunters was a pretty broad brush stroke. I don't know what else to say except that I hope that his comments don't end up on a PETA t-shirt.
You said that you used to roam all over the mountains without seeing a Posted sign. However, most people's opinion seems to be that tresspass occurs by setting foot on someone's land without permission even if there isn't a sign. Does that mean you were poaching during your wonderings?
I agree that this is a free country and that people are generally free to do what they want. Hell, if you want to put a hurricanne fence around your property and hire Hells Angels biker to patrol it, go for it! However, I maintain the right of freedom of speech to voice concerns about the conduct of some people that just do not seem good for the sport. Given the responses by a lot of people here, I'm not alone.
You assumed a bit more of a polite tone, so I will respond to you one more time. The other guy's comments about dog hunters was a pretty broad brush stroke. I don't know what else to say except that I hope that his comments don't end up on a PETA t-shirt.
You said that you used to roam all over the mountains without seeing a Posted sign. However, most people's opinion seems to be that tresspass occurs by setting foot on someone's land without permission even if there isn't a sign. Does that mean you were poaching during your wonderings?
I agree that this is a free country and that people are generally free to do what they want. Hell, if you want to put a hurricanne fence around your property and hire Hells Angels biker to patrol it, go for it! However, I maintain the right of freedom of speech to voice concerns about the conduct of some people that just do not seem good for the sport. Given the responses by a lot of people here, I'm not alone.
12-21-2005, 01:52 PM
#42
Typical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Northwoods of WI
Posts: 990
RE: Another question on ethics
We have a Tzone hunt in WI. That is a special hunt or does only. It is a 4 day rifle hunt right in the middle of our archery season. On the 170 acres I have we have way to many does. During a bow hunt I had 19 does and fawns cross under my stand with in a half hour period. I don't not rifle hunt this area and while I have nothing against shooting does I, like alot of hunters would prefer to hunt the bucks. What I did is called our local DNR office to see if there was a program for the youth hunters. They said that didn't have a program but thay did have names of young hunters that had just went through the hunters safety program in my county but had no one to take them hunting and no where to hunt. I then asked around work for guys who would be willing to help with the hunters. I have seven condo stands on the property with heaters and plenty of room for two. Thats why we limit it to seven hunters. I was able to take a doe during the first week with a bow so we were able to feed the kids venison for lunch and for many of them it was their first taste. It was nice. Every hunter went home with a deer and there we alot of stories. We actully have 2 t-zone hunts one in October and the other in december. I didn't get my act together soon enough to get one set up for the second hunt but I hope to have everything ready by this summer and get kids out there forboth hunts. I would also like to build 2wheel chairready blinds fora couple of the disabled hunters in the county. I hope it helps with the deer herd.
12-21-2005, 01:58 PM
#43
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 10,277
RE: Another question on ethics
Sounds great. Are there any issues regardinginsurance or would this be covered by a regular homeowners policy or whatever? How far apart do you place your stands?
12-21-2005, 02:07 PM
#44
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location:
Posts: 11,472
RE: Another question on ethics
I am saying that it is unsportsmanlikeif you own hundreds of acres of land, do not let anyone set foot on it or track wounded deer on to it, but are always out hunting elsewhere.
I own 120 acres of land and don't hunt it much at all or do I let anyone else hunt it. I have it posted. I just simply don't want anyone on my land. That's why I own land........so I can do whatever the hell I want to do with it. That's why I make mortgage payments on it, that's why I pay property taxes on it, and that's why I pay school taxes on it. So I can do whatever I want to do.
Now....... I hunt 4 other different pieces of land varying in size. I have written permision to hunt all of them. I am fortunate enough (for now) that our little group is the only one that hunt them for the most part (we share the land a little bit on 1 piece of land.)
However, I went out and pursued the land to hunt. I've been "squeezed" off other pieces of land that started out the same way and ended up where the landowner gave permission to everyone and it ended up a carnival atmosphere. No problem....... I'm not going to whine about it. I'll pick up and forget about hunting there. Maybe find a new piece in the off season. The point is it's the landowners right to do what he wants.
I dont' see a problem with the guy hunting other land and posting his for nobody to hunt. If one of the landowners on a piece of land I hunt choses to do the same thing as the guy you're describing then so be it. I'll move on.
Let him hunt wherever he has permission to hunt and let him do whatever he wants with his land. You have nothing to say about either. If you don't like it............... buy some more land or find another place to hunt.
12-21-2005, 02:10 PM
#45
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Port Neches, Texas
Posts: 5,514
RE: Another question on ethics
As I said in the other thread on this same issue, you ARE NOT responsible for what he does, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT YOU DO THOUGH!
Ownership carries rights and privilages! What youlegally do with your land is your business!
If this guy can own land, and afford to hunt other land in all 50 states, so what! Its his right!
You also have absolutely no idea as to the reason his personal land is posted! Nor BTW, are you owed the answer!
What you are comming very close to suggesting, is a COMMIE, WELFARE STATE!
Ownership carries rights and privilages! What youlegally do with your land is your business!
If this guy can own land, and afford to hunt other land in all 50 states, so what! Its his right!
You also have absolutely no idea as to the reason his personal land is posted! Nor BTW, are you owed the answer!
What you are comming very close to suggesting, is a COMMIE, WELFARE STATE!
12-21-2005, 02:24 PM
#46
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 10,277
RE: Another question on ethics
To the contrary, the reason he does what he does, is because of what others on this site have suggested, he's a selfish jerk. Even his own relatives say so, and I agree since I've known him all my life. No law against that, but that's what he is, and itsnot a good thing for the sport. Cased closed!
As for the fellow with the 120 acres. What happens if you wound a deer then track it to the border of someone else's land, but they won't let you retrieve it. Are you going to walk back to your truck saying, "what a great American who is taking a patriotic stand for private ownership?"
As I've already pointed out, a lot of people agree with my basic premise. The attitude by others seems to be "I've got mine, so screw everybody else." You all might learn a little somethingby reading Coopers posts about his youth hunting program.But then again, you're liable to start attacking him for trying to boss people into participating in something worthwhile.
As for the fellow with the 120 acres. What happens if you wound a deer then track it to the border of someone else's land, but they won't let you retrieve it. Are you going to walk back to your truck saying, "what a great American who is taking a patriotic stand for private ownership?"
As I've already pointed out, a lot of people agree with my basic premise. The attitude by others seems to be "I've got mine, so screw everybody else." You all might learn a little somethingby reading Coopers posts about his youth hunting program.But then again, you're liable to start attacking him for trying to boss people into participating in something worthwhile.
12-21-2005, 03:18 PM
#47
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 10,277
RE: Another question on ethics
Folks,
I started this thread to get varying opinions about particular concerns that I have about access to hunting land and the attitudes/actions of some landowners. Things have gotten heated to the point of being counterproductive. I have obviously stepped on some toes (that probably need it), but have also gotten some very good feedback. Therefore, I am calling it quits on this thread. I'm going to start a new thread in the Hunting and Politics section to generate some discussion about what we can specifically do as individuals or as groups to develop greater access to hunting land. If you feel that you must have the last word here, go ahead, i won't say anything else. But i would hope that on the other thread there can be some serious discussion on what good things can be done rather than finger pointing, etc.
Thanks
I started this thread to get varying opinions about particular concerns that I have about access to hunting land and the attitudes/actions of some landowners. Things have gotten heated to the point of being counterproductive. I have obviously stepped on some toes (that probably need it), but have also gotten some very good feedback. Therefore, I am calling it quits on this thread. I'm going to start a new thread in the Hunting and Politics section to generate some discussion about what we can specifically do as individuals or as groups to develop greater access to hunting land. If you feel that you must have the last word here, go ahead, i won't say anything else. But i would hope that on the other thread there can be some serious discussion on what good things can be done rather than finger pointing, etc.
Thanks
12-21-2005, 03:29 PM
#48
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: S.E Wisconsin
Posts: 50
RE: Another question on ethics
Get a cup of coffe and a snack this might be long.
I grew up hunting public land in my home state of VA. Any of you that hunt public land know what a hassle it can be at times and the problems that can come of it. Since I'm only 38 most of my life I have not been in the position to purshase my own land but am always on a quest to find better less populated places to hunt. In 1992 I moved to WI and was exctatic because at the time it was ranked in the top five states to take a trophy buck in the country. Not sure where it ranks now but still pretty high.
One morning at a church meeting a guy I had just met asked me to go to breakfast. I told him I couldn't because I had plans to look over some public hunting land for the up coming season (my first WI hunting season). He told me if I had a little time he could show me a good place to hunt right down the road. Where do ya think I went? Turns out the guy I will call the Land Barron Who is now in his late 40's Started buying farms when he was 19. He is not a hunter or a farmer just an investor. We went to 900 acre farm 10 minutes from my house.
hardwood thickets dotted the land with a thick river bottom running from one end to the other (thought I died and went to heaven). he had other farms but at that time noone had permision to hunt this one and If I liked I could hunt it all I wanted.
Told ya this would be long. I know no other way
This was going to be my first year trying my hand at bow hunting. The second weekend after the season opener I managed to put an arrow into my first WI monster better then 130" non typical 220 dressed. I have had the pleasure of taking a few nice deer over the years there. Then gun season came. By this time i had got permission for two friends to hunt the land also. We spent the remainder of the season running off guys that got permission to hunt one season ten years ago, guys that got permission from a friend, guys that didn't understand they were on private property after the crossed the bobwire fence. In the nature of sharing the wealth I have taken people hunting on this land who wanted to hunt but had no place to and noone to show them what to do. My mailman seen me skinning a buck at home one day ended up taking him and his kid out there. Took a few of my customers out there.(selfemployed) Then you end up running them off because one hunt means they have permission for life or they bring a friend who brings a friend who brings a friend, well you get the picture. This year two of my kids had thier first hunts on this land. We have found tracks in the snow leading to and from our stands, we have one stand missing only to find someone elses stand up a hundred yards away with a trail cam over looking a bait pile that is illegal in my county.
i've had to ask guys to get out of my stand(a hang on) and everyone has permision or did at one time. My experience is if you let em on it's hard to get em off. Maybe these are some extrem cases but then again six people lost thier lives in WI over trespassing, Maybe it's not extrem at all. i'm currently looking to buy my own land for the 2006 season, i will post it and I will use whatever means the Law allows to keep people off it. And yes i will still probably hunt the land I have permission to go on. Might even make adjustments with my chainsaw to a few trees holding other guys stands (
just kidding!!!! Two wrongs never make a right) WOW I have told my kids that too.........
Whether PETA or any other non hunting people are against us or even exist if you hunt where other people hunt you will probably more then likely run into someone doing stupid crap you disagree with. It's human nature.
I grew up hunting public land in my home state of VA. Any of you that hunt public land know what a hassle it can be at times and the problems that can come of it. Since I'm only 38 most of my life I have not been in the position to purshase my own land but am always on a quest to find better less populated places to hunt. In 1992 I moved to WI and was exctatic because at the time it was ranked in the top five states to take a trophy buck in the country. Not sure where it ranks now but still pretty high.
One morning at a church meeting a guy I had just met asked me to go to breakfast. I told him I couldn't because I had plans to look over some public hunting land for the up coming season (my first WI hunting season). He told me if I had a little time he could show me a good place to hunt right down the road. Where do ya think I went? Turns out the guy I will call the Land Barron Who is now in his late 40's Started buying farms when he was 19. He is not a hunter or a farmer just an investor. We went to 900 acre farm 10 minutes from my house.
hardwood thickets dotted the land with a thick river bottom running from one end to the other (thought I died and went to heaven). he had other farms but at that time noone had permision to hunt this one and If I liked I could hunt it all I wanted.
Told ya this would be long. I know no other way
This was going to be my first year trying my hand at bow hunting. The second weekend after the season opener I managed to put an arrow into my first WI monster better then 130" non typical 220 dressed. I have had the pleasure of taking a few nice deer over the years there. Then gun season came. By this time i had got permission for two friends to hunt the land also. We spent the remainder of the season running off guys that got permission to hunt one season ten years ago, guys that got permission from a friend, guys that didn't understand they were on private property after the crossed the bobwire fence. In the nature of sharing the wealth I have taken people hunting on this land who wanted to hunt but had no place to and noone to show them what to do. My mailman seen me skinning a buck at home one day ended up taking him and his kid out there. Took a few of my customers out there.(selfemployed) Then you end up running them off because one hunt means they have permission for life or they bring a friend who brings a friend who brings a friend, well you get the picture. This year two of my kids had thier first hunts on this land. We have found tracks in the snow leading to and from our stands, we have one stand missing only to find someone elses stand up a hundred yards away with a trail cam over looking a bait pile that is illegal in my county.
i've had to ask guys to get out of my stand(a hang on) and everyone has permision or did at one time. My experience is if you let em on it's hard to get em off. Maybe these are some extrem cases but then again six people lost thier lives in WI over trespassing, Maybe it's not extrem at all. i'm currently looking to buy my own land for the 2006 season, i will post it and I will use whatever means the Law allows to keep people off it. And yes i will still probably hunt the land I have permission to go on. Might even make adjustments with my chainsaw to a few trees holding other guys stands (
just kidding!!!! Two wrongs never make a right) WOW I have told my kids that too.........Whether PETA or any other non hunting people are against us or even exist if you hunt where other people hunt you will probably more then likely run into someone doing stupid crap you disagree with. It's human nature.
12-21-2005, 04:35 PM
#50
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 494
RE: Another question on ethics
ORIGINAL: Lanse couche couche
So, I take it as a "yes" that you are inexperienced with hunting using dogs. But then again you makea great argument for banning ownership of dogs altogether, or having kids for that matter. Its downright criminal if you can't keep those little buggers on a three foot leash. That's all that I'm going to say to you. Your comments aboutpeople who hunt with dogs is about the most scary thing I've heard on this site.
So, I take it as a "yes" that you are inexperienced with hunting using dogs. But then again you makea great argument for banning ownership of dogs altogether, or having kids for that matter. Its downright criminal if you can't keep those little buggers on a three foot leash. That's all that I'm going to say to you. Your comments aboutpeople who hunt with dogs is about the most scary thing I've heard on this site.