Another question on ethics
12-21-2005, 12:08 PM
#31
Boone & Crockett
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 10,277
RE: Another question on ethics
I fully understand and respect your position. It can get problematic in terms of getting a lot of requests to hunt.
For the sake of turning the discussion to something a bit more constructive, could you tell us a little about how your youth huntingprogram works?
For the sake of turning the discussion to something a bit more constructive, could you tell us a little about how your youth huntingprogram works?
12-21-2005, 12:15 PM
#32
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Posts: 6,357
RE: Another question on ethics
If you go onto his posted land, you are trespassing. If you hunt there, you are poaching. It is just that simple.
Where I grew up in Illinois it was my understanding that even if land was not posted you needed permission from the land owner to hunt. It certainly would never have been my expectation that I could hunt land just because it wasn't posted. My father told me to refuse permission to hunt our land to anyone who stopped by to ask, other than family -- cousins, uncles, etc. My father was a reasonable man, and if a stranger stopped by to ask permission from HIM and this stranger was personable and indicated he was the right kind of hunter, I bet my father would let him hunt the property . . . if the game population allowed this. If there were just enough pheasants for us to hunt, he would be likely to tell the stranger this story when he turned him down, but maybe suggest some place he personnaly knew of that had better populations and asked him to drop my father's name when he asked permission. If the stranger was insincere or overly slick and was trying to put one over on my dad, I think that stranger would be out of luck.
The land owner you describe may be selfish. He may have inadequate concern for the future of hunting. Heck, he may even fail to attend church regularly! You may try enlighten this man and improve his character and show him the shortsightedness of his ways, but you can't hunt on his property!!!
Where I grew up in Illinois it was my understanding that even if land was not posted you needed permission from the land owner to hunt. It certainly would never have been my expectation that I could hunt land just because it wasn't posted. My father told me to refuse permission to hunt our land to anyone who stopped by to ask, other than family -- cousins, uncles, etc. My father was a reasonable man, and if a stranger stopped by to ask permission from HIM and this stranger was personable and indicated he was the right kind of hunter, I bet my father would let him hunt the property . . . if the game population allowed this. If there were just enough pheasants for us to hunt, he would be likely to tell the stranger this story when he turned him down, but maybe suggest some place he personnaly knew of that had better populations and asked him to drop my father's name when he asked permission. If the stranger was insincere or overly slick and was trying to put one over on my dad, I think that stranger would be out of luck.
The land owner you describe may be selfish. He may have inadequate concern for the future of hunting. Heck, he may even fail to attend church regularly! You may try enlighten this man and improve his character and show him the shortsightedness of his ways, but you can't hunt on his property!!!
12-21-2005, 12:20 PM
#33
Boone & Crockett
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 10,277
RE: Another question on ethics
I have no problem with your family's philosophy about access to land. And, again, I'm not arguing that the person in question must let people hunt on his land. I'm simply saying the same thing that you just did, its his right, but its selfish and bad for the sport.
What part of Illinois do you hail from?
What part of Illinois do you hail from?
12-21-2005, 12:28 PM
#34
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 494
RE: Another question on ethics
ORIGINAL: Lanse couche couche
You tell me how to keep coonhounds from crossing the wrong property line at 3AM in the morning, or how to do the same with a beagle hot on the trail of a rabbit in an area where the property lines change every quarter mile. I would politely state that you are the one without much experience.
And I would assume that all the people who hunt over dogs on this site appreciate your support.
You tell me how to keep coonhounds from crossing the wrong property line at 3AM in the morning, or how to do the same with a beagle hot on the trail of a rabbit in an area where the property lines change every quarter mile. I would politely state that you are the one without much experience.
And I would assume that all the people who hunt over dogs on this site appreciate your support.
12-21-2005, 12:34 PM
#36
Boone & Crockett
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RE: Another question on ethics
So, I take it as a "yes" that you are inexperienced with hunting using dogs. But then again you makea great argument for banning ownership of dogs altogether, or having kids for that matter. Its downright criminal if you can't keep those little buggers on a three foot leash. That's all that I'm going to say to you. Your comments aboutpeople who hunt with dogs is about the most scary thing I've heard on this site.
12-21-2005, 12:39 PM
#37
Boone & Crockett
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RE: Another question on ethics
I'm from Richland County. My parents live south of Claremont, about 10 miles from Olney. Let me know if you're ever interested in getting out andtromping the brush for some rabbits, although from the sound of things, we are "dirt-bags" if we use beagles to do it.
12-21-2005, 01:16 PM
#39
Boone & Crockett
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
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RE: Another question on ethics
As Ed MacMahon would say, "You are correct, sir." But, at leasthalf of the folks on this thread agreed that the behavior of this particular person, while legal, is problematic.
12-21-2005, 01:30 PM
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Another question on ethics
I am going to let you in on a little secret with a free spirited democracy we have here in the US. You can agree all you want about people being rude because they dont' dress like you or act like you.But you can't make people be wonderful people or have the same mindset you do.
Sure, it would be wonderful if all land owners opened up thier lands. Its been argued and people killed for centuries since land ownership has taken root in this country. From the days of freeranging cattle to fox hunting in the UK. But bottom line people can be jerks if they want. Its a great country where you can do that. Bascially built on selfishness and greed. These qualities can ruin people, make them unhappy or encourage them to work harder to build something one day. There are countries where everyone is on the same plain (at least on paper). Its called communism. Somewhat socialist.
Your being very unfair to the guy. The guy did not say anything bad about dog hunting at all. He was merely stating the obvious. If you don't have enough land or a place where you know you can't keep control of dogs, then don't dog hunt. I know in Ky, in the mountains, I never have to worry about it with dogs. Roam the mountains all day without seeing a posted sign. I mean your being very dramatic with teh banning dogs and children stuff. My family never had a problem keeping me on thier own land
Sure, it would be wonderful if all land owners opened up thier lands. Its been argued and people killed for centuries since land ownership has taken root in this country. From the days of freeranging cattle to fox hunting in the UK. But bottom line people can be jerks if they want. Its a great country where you can do that. Bascially built on selfishness and greed. These qualities can ruin people, make them unhappy or encourage them to work harder to build something one day. There are countries where everyone is on the same plain (at least on paper). Its called communism. Somewhat socialist.
Your being very unfair to the guy. The guy did not say anything bad about dog hunting at all. He was merely stating the obvious. If you don't have enough land or a place where you know you can't keep control of dogs, then don't dog hunt. I know in Ky, in the mountains, I never have to worry about it with dogs. Roam the mountains all day without seeing a posted sign. I mean your being very dramatic with teh banning dogs and children stuff. My family never had a problem keeping me on thier own land