Dead deer in public view???
11-29-2005 | 08:35 AM
#161
Fork Horn
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Dead deer in public view???
Red,be careful what you ask for. The legislation that you may want to pass right now may come back to haunt you in the future.(though I don't think it would ever pass.). Some people have no choice but to tie the deer to the top of the car. Couple years ago my truck broke down and I had to tie the deer to the trunk of my car. Now I didn't drive around town I drove straight home. Under your said leg. what would you do in this situation.? However up here in Michigan there are a couple of local places that have a buck pole strickley for the reason of display.NO.1 This I do not would not participate. 2nd I always want to get the deer processed asap. depending on the temp outside.I do respect you oppinion however I would not welcome the anti-hunters to help make a law to deter how we take our deer from the woods to the house. Good luck with your hunting. Thanks for your oppinion.
11-29-2005 | 08:36 AM
#162
Dominant Buck
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 26,323
Likes: 0
From: WC FL
RE: Dead deer in public view???
ORIGINAL: manuman
It isn't difficult to figure out what attacking and belittling is--it isn't a veiled attempt or a slight of hand issue--plain and simple--if you agree or disagree, slinging insuts, becoming agressively heated, and making obscene gestures would probably qualify for being intolerant.The original post labeled everyone that displays their deer as fitting into a certain category, and that is wrong--pure and simple. My motivation had nothing to do with any of his stereotypes or any of the others that followed.I think I spelled that out pretty plainly. The new tolerance says that all views are on equal footing, not allowing for ANYONE to be right--if everyone is equal, then you have no concept of what is truly right or wrong, true or false--it is only opinion, and opinion and truth are not one and the same-necesarrily.I think the 20 year olds actions spoke for themselves considering she flipped me off, and I have no problem with lip reading either. It wasn't an assumption, which would be entirely different.I did not respond to her in kind. And before you say--see, if you had not done this it wouldn't have happened, let me go ahead and say--her attitude toward hunting didn't arise from my display--it only surfaced what was already there. And I will repeat--she was the only one that responded in this matter. out of literally hundreds of people on the highways.It is considered political correctness, due to the reasoning behind people's everchanging attitudes toward issues such as hunting. Surely you have the discernment and the awareness of the changes that have taken place in the past 15-20 years.It is of the same fabric, this mentality toward sanitizing and neutralizing any form of a standard concerning most anything in our society today. You are not allowed to have a defined position on anything for fear of 'offending'. And, it is not a devil may care attitude or being cavalier that I'm talking about--it is standing up for what you have based your life on--carefully and thoughtfully, without concern for retribution or rejection. I don't care if you or others agree with me, or act or believe as I do. You have the right to do so--that very right is in jeopardy because of the weenie mentality that attempts to neutralize and categorize everything and everybody into some neat little generic package.It is foolish to think that you can project some image of hunting that doesn't consider the reality that it involves the taking of an animals life. To attempt to skirt around this implies that there is indeed something wrong that needs to be hidden.Where do you propose to draw the line? The next logical step is to remove any photos or magazines or articles--retreat, retreat! I say no. It is time to present it as it is, and to do it in manner consistent with the broadness of the spectrum.As for the general public tolerating it--yes I am saying this. I'll kill 2 birds with 1 stone.I mentioned gays , not to make a statement one way or the other here, although I do have very definite concerns here--but that is for another forum. Ify ou want to make it into something more you can, butI don't make any reference one way or the other, other than to use this issue as an illustration. It is a loaded topic, and it is very volatile. As we are regressing in our society, what was once considered shameful, and even its participants were inclined to hide their actions--now has become more widely accepted, while the partcipation in an activity such as hunting has become something , now, that we are supposed to go around and hide as if we were participating in something shameful. This paradigm shift is very troubling. It is not for us to go around hiding or being made to be shamed into condescending or compromising what we know is an acceptible practice.Our responsibility is to reverse this trend by being able to demonstrate verbally and through educating the general public on the necessity and legitimacy of hunting as completely credible and understandible. Then we won't have as many 20 year old girls reacting to me or anyone else as if I had done something vile or immoral. Her perspective led her to react in anger. Her perspective is what the problem is--her perception.I can have the perception that if I walk out of a 30 story building I can fly like superman, and find out through someone enlightening me of my faulty belief system, without having my rights infringed or being somehow violated.And don't come back with she's entitled--because that is not the issue at all. She's entitled of course, just as any one is entitled to do anything. But entitlement does not imply or distinguish right from wrong or true from false. You or I are free to smoke, do drugs, drink one's self into a stupor everyday ofyour life--but it won't change the fact that it will still hurt or kill you and others.You can allow someone their rights and still deliver the truth to them without being intolerant. It isn't necessarry to retreat into a neutral position to achieve being tolerant. It does become necesarry to show mutual respect and dignity --regardless of ones position.And, it does point to the need for a standard that transcends opinion. What was true yesterday is true tomorrow and always. Opinions and ideas come and go.
ORIGINAL: mustad
Manuman,
I am troubled with your definition of True Tolerance...
You state - True tolerance means allowing someone to be different without attacking or belittling. First off, why do you say attacking and belittling and what is the definition of that? Were you belittling the 20 year old at the gas station by concluding that she gave you a negative look with regards to your displayed deer? Were you belittling her by mentioning it here? I'm not sure your time would be worthwhile even thinking about it. More importantly, who is determining what is allowed? Is it you, me, Pamela Anderson, PETA? I think it needs to come back to a notion of what is defined as acceptable by the general population. There are laws right now which define what is acceptable and these laws can and will change as the majority consensus changes (hopefully never including anything about the display of harvested animals of any type). Why would you consider it "political correctness" to simply maximize the probabilty of the majority not having a negative impression on hunting since they can have a huge impact into what is deemed "allowed"?
Are you saying that it's the general population's responsibility to tolerate you showing your harvest? Why?
Finally, with regards to your comment on "gays", does your concept of tolerance stop at sexual preference?
Cheers,
Manuman,
I am troubled with your definition of True Tolerance...
You state - True tolerance means allowing someone to be different without attacking or belittling. First off, why do you say attacking and belittling and what is the definition of that? Were you belittling the 20 year old at the gas station by concluding that she gave you a negative look with regards to your displayed deer? Were you belittling her by mentioning it here? I'm not sure your time would be worthwhile even thinking about it. More importantly, who is determining what is allowed? Is it you, me, Pamela Anderson, PETA? I think it needs to come back to a notion of what is defined as acceptable by the general population. There are laws right now which define what is acceptable and these laws can and will change as the majority consensus changes (hopefully never including anything about the display of harvested animals of any type). Why would you consider it "political correctness" to simply maximize the probabilty of the majority not having a negative impression on hunting since they can have a huge impact into what is deemed "allowed"?
Are you saying that it's the general population's responsibility to tolerate you showing your harvest? Why?
Finally, with regards to your comment on "gays", does your concept of tolerance stop at sexual preference?
Cheers,
Manuman, you could'nt have said it any better!!!
11-29-2005 | 08:46 AM
#163
Fork Horn
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
From: Marshfield/Modena
RE: Dead deer in public view???
as long as you are respectful to the animal, i see no reason why it cannot be in public display. people should not expect to be completely sheltered from anything that might disturb them, whether it is a dead animal on the side of the road or a deer harvested by a hunter. if they havent noticed yet, dead animals are a function of the ecosystem we live in. all animals eventually starve, get killed by predators, or die of old age.
11-29-2005 | 08:53 AM
#165
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
From: NC
RE: Dead deer in public view???
I have followed most of this post, although I haven’t read all of it.
I have never paraded my kills around, not because I am opposed to it, but because I have never really thought about it. Also, I have never killed anything large enough for the rack to show over my truck bed, but maybe some day. Most of the people that I see with their kill visible seem do out of necessity rather than pride. Their vehicle does not have a truck bed or the bed of their truck is full of 4-wheeler so the deer is strapped to the 4-wheeler’s rack. Most of the hunters that I know understand that once you have killed the animal it is time for the real work to start. Personally I don’t have time to gallivant around town showing off my kill, as I have to go home and skin the animal, quarter it and get it to the butcher (and taxidermist if I’m lucky). If I want to show it off I call my buddies and they can come over and help me skin it. It actually offends me more to see 18-wheelers packed to the gills with chickens or hogs rolling down the highway headed for the slaughterhouse. While you are in DC try to get them to throw a tarp over those things too.
Red, I believe that most of the ire that you have drawn from this thread comes from the “It just urks me too no end when I see some REDNECK, backwoods, toothless, banjo pickin inbred rolling down the road in his jackedup 4x4 with a dead deer lying in the bed of the truck” quote. This was in your very first post. In my opinion it was uncalled for and I am as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours, regardless of how many deer you have killed or how long you have been hunting. What you may not understand is that “redneck does not equal stupid” and just because someone does not share your opinion that does not make them stupid either. I consider myself a “redneck” and have 2 four-year degrees, one of which is one of the most difficult under graduate degrees to complete. I currently working on my masters and hold a high level position at a Fortune 500 company. Luckily we have a good dental plan, so I have been able to hold on to all of my teeth. I guess my point is, “Try and show at least as much respectto your fellow hunters as you want them to show for their game.”
I have never paraded my kills around, not because I am opposed to it, but because I have never really thought about it. Also, I have never killed anything large enough for the rack to show over my truck bed, but maybe some day. Most of the people that I see with their kill visible seem do out of necessity rather than pride. Their vehicle does not have a truck bed or the bed of their truck is full of 4-wheeler so the deer is strapped to the 4-wheeler’s rack. Most of the hunters that I know understand that once you have killed the animal it is time for the real work to start. Personally I don’t have time to gallivant around town showing off my kill, as I have to go home and skin the animal, quarter it and get it to the butcher (and taxidermist if I’m lucky). If I want to show it off I call my buddies and they can come over and help me skin it. It actually offends me more to see 18-wheelers packed to the gills with chickens or hogs rolling down the highway headed for the slaughterhouse. While you are in DC try to get them to throw a tarp over those things too.
Red, I believe that most of the ire that you have drawn from this thread comes from the “It just urks me too no end when I see some REDNECK, backwoods, toothless, banjo pickin inbred rolling down the road in his jackedup 4x4 with a dead deer lying in the bed of the truck” quote. This was in your very first post. In my opinion it was uncalled for and I am as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours, regardless of how many deer you have killed or how long you have been hunting. What you may not understand is that “redneck does not equal stupid” and just because someone does not share your opinion that does not make them stupid either. I consider myself a “redneck” and have 2 four-year degrees, one of which is one of the most difficult under graduate degrees to complete. I currently working on my masters and hold a high level position at a Fortune 500 company. Luckily we have a good dental plan, so I have been able to hold on to all of my teeth. I guess my point is, “Try and show at least as much respectto your fellow hunters as you want them to show for their game.”
11-29-2005 | 08:54 AM
#166
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,002
Likes: 0
From: Almost Heaven. Boone Co. WV
RE: Dead deer in public view???
I just don't understand the purpose of driving around with an exposed carcass with the INTENT of showing it off to the general public. What's the point?
The only possible thing that can happen is a NEGATIVE effect on the 75% general population that are on the fence and ultimately have the upperhand in the future of hunting.
Why take the chance of doing anything to have a negative impact on the sport?
Do you really get that much joy out of showing it off to every Tom, Dick, and Harry? Is it worth that much to you?
I still say it is not a matter of PC or hiding what we do. It's simply a matter of courtesy and respect to others that may not want to see your dead deer while driving to Wal Mart.
It's not hiding the fact that you are still a great white hunter. The deer would be under a big canvas or game bag and on a trailer with a rack sticking out. You'd probably be in hunting gear .DUH!!!! Roll the window down and proclaim your excitement to everyone on the streets that you got a deer (no dont' do that either) Fear not little Johnny and soccer mom will still know you are a great hunter and know you harvested a deer.
The risk just doesn't seem to equal the reward to me. Actually I don't see how it's rewarding at all but that's JMO.
No camo in public? Let's face it soccer mom and Johnny can put 2 and 2 toghether? Wouldn't want to plant the seed!
Hide your tree-stands! Everyone knows what they are used for!
No hunting sections in Wal-mart and Dicks! The thought of Hunting and a dead deer may make someone cry!
I have a soulution! Let's just go ahead and take hunting to the "underground" and hide all aspects of it from the general public so that we can "save" our sport! [:'(]
Give me a break!
11-29-2005 | 09:03 AM
#167
Fork Horn
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Dead deer in public view???
you want us to put you in a trash bag? Take you to the land fill??? I would rather you took me to the woods and let nature take its course..Not by the side of the road but somewhere not well traveled..
11-29-2005 | 09:08 AM
#168
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,320
Likes: 0
From: collin county, TX
RE: Dead deer in public view???
First off and again, NO NEW LAWS NEEDED!
When arguements are taken to the extreme
there can never be agreement. This issue
has nothing, not one thing to do with a
breakdown of social morality. There is scant
if any real support to create legislation to
forbid displaying your kill as you travel down
the road as a step to eliminate hunting altogether
and then take away your guns. And someone
covering their kill with a tarp is not HIDING the
sport or lifestyle of hunters, they'rejust not FLAUNTING
the one aspect of hunting that some non-hunters
(which is different from anti-hunters) don't care
or want to see. And to the "don't give a rip or a
snort" people,in my opinion, YOU do much more
to hurt the sport, the tradition and the joy of
hunting and other outdoor sports than most of
the organized groups that actually try to stop us
could dream of doing. You are their greatest tool.
You will be held up as the example to the great
majority of the world and we will all be seen as
"don't give a rip or a snort, I'll do as I please"
and that is a LIE! I DO care, I DO respect and
I DO want hunting to be seen, not hidden, SEEN
by the general population as the noble and decent
activity that it truly is. Keeping people informed of
sportsmen and our outdoor lifestyle is alot more
entailed and important than flaunting a dead animal.
This is not about hunters rights, it's about hunters
attitudes and actions. Oh, and by the way, I still
think it's careless to the point of ignorant (sorry if
you're offended) to transport your table meat exposed
to the sun, fuel exhaust and road grime. Buts thats
just my opinion.
God bless & good hunting
PK
When arguements are taken to the extreme
there can never be agreement. This issue
has nothing, not one thing to do with a
breakdown of social morality. There is scant
if any real support to create legislation to
forbid displaying your kill as you travel down
the road as a step to eliminate hunting altogether
and then take away your guns. And someone
covering their kill with a tarp is not HIDING the
sport or lifestyle of hunters, they'rejust not FLAUNTING
the one aspect of hunting that some non-hunters
(which is different from anti-hunters) don't care
or want to see. And to the "don't give a rip or a
snort" people,in my opinion, YOU do much more
to hurt the sport, the tradition and the joy of
hunting and other outdoor sports than most of
the organized groups that actually try to stop us
could dream of doing. You are their greatest tool.
You will be held up as the example to the great
majority of the world and we will all be seen as
"don't give a rip or a snort, I'll do as I please"
and that is a LIE! I DO care, I DO respect and
I DO want hunting to be seen, not hidden, SEEN
by the general population as the noble and decent
activity that it truly is. Keeping people informed of
sportsmen and our outdoor lifestyle is alot more
entailed and important than flaunting a dead animal.
This is not about hunters rights, it's about hunters
attitudes and actions. Oh, and by the way, I still
think it's careless to the point of ignorant (sorry if
you're offended) to transport your table meat exposed
to the sun, fuel exhaust and road grime. Buts thats
just my opinion.
God bless & good hunting
PK
11-29-2005 | 09:08 AM
#169
Typical Buck
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 811
Likes: 0
From: New England
RE: Dead deer in public view???
Manuman,
Your first definition of Tolerance was..
True tolerance means allowing someone to be different without attacking or belittling
Your second is...
The new tolerance says that all views are on equal footing, not allowing for ANYONE to be right--if everyone is equal, then you have no concept of what is truly right or wrong, true or false--it is only opinion, and opinion and truth are not one and the same-necesarrily.
Assuming True tolerance is the same thing as New tolerance you are bouncing on different points. Your initial definition implies allowance. Allowance implies deviation from a standard. Your second definition clearly states there is no standard.
I think the remainder of your response really delves around some of the negative changes that have taken place in societal values and that it should not continue. Fine, but…
This is not an exercise of what is offending vs not offending (well, with the exception of Red’s insults which should have not been made). This is an exercise to avoid having the majority of the population of the country develop a negative impression of hunting. Granted we all have choices, but is it safe to assume that having the majority of the population holding a negative impression on hunting would be a bad thing? I believe so. In fact, I think it would really suck. This is not an act of retreating or hiding, but single act, combined with others, that can proactively shape the manner in which activities we deem valuable is shared by as many people as possible. Personally, I see value in this.
My whole point is that it is a far better and much more productive approach to first understand your audience and then personalize the message of the values of hunting… Population Control, Meat, Inherent part of our culture, One of the founding principles of the country… as reasons to have a positive view of hunting; not the right of an individual to parade around the city openly displaying a recent kill out of pride or protest.
Finally, this is not an old issue that has gone through many changes. At most, the public display of a dead deer to the extent of what is happening today is two generations old. How far did you have to drive when you went through Atlanta showing off your kill. Was this feasible 25, 50, 100, 200+ years ago. This specific issue is not one that has gone through change, it is one that is being exposed now. The effect that is will have on hunting as a whole is what needs to be determined, and potentially avoided.
Cheers,
Your first definition of Tolerance was..
True tolerance means allowing someone to be different without attacking or belittling
Your second is...
The new tolerance says that all views are on equal footing, not allowing for ANYONE to be right--if everyone is equal, then you have no concept of what is truly right or wrong, true or false--it is only opinion, and opinion and truth are not one and the same-necesarrily.
Assuming True tolerance is the same thing as New tolerance you are bouncing on different points. Your initial definition implies allowance. Allowance implies deviation from a standard. Your second definition clearly states there is no standard.
I think the remainder of your response really delves around some of the negative changes that have taken place in societal values and that it should not continue. Fine, but…
This is not an exercise of what is offending vs not offending (well, with the exception of Red’s insults which should have not been made). This is an exercise to avoid having the majority of the population of the country develop a negative impression of hunting. Granted we all have choices, but is it safe to assume that having the majority of the population holding a negative impression on hunting would be a bad thing? I believe so. In fact, I think it would really suck. This is not an act of retreating or hiding, but single act, combined with others, that can proactively shape the manner in which activities we deem valuable is shared by as many people as possible. Personally, I see value in this.
My whole point is that it is a far better and much more productive approach to first understand your audience and then personalize the message of the values of hunting… Population Control, Meat, Inherent part of our culture, One of the founding principles of the country… as reasons to have a positive view of hunting; not the right of an individual to parade around the city openly displaying a recent kill out of pride or protest.
Finally, this is not an old issue that has gone through many changes. At most, the public display of a dead deer to the extent of what is happening today is two generations old. How far did you have to drive when you went through Atlanta showing off your kill. Was this feasible 25, 50, 100, 200+ years ago. This specific issue is not one that has gone through change, it is one that is being exposed now. The effect that is will have on hunting as a whole is what needs to be determined, and potentially avoided.
Cheers,
