once a spike always a spike?
 

I ve always heard this and was wondering if there was any truth behind it.

RE: once a spike always a spike?
 

Depends. If it's 2.5yr old spike, then yes, so shoot it, if its a 1.5yr old no, it should get bigger the following year.

RE: once a spike always a spike?
 

not necessarily true. We watch a spike buck with damaged ear grow to be a decent buck a few years later. It all depends on the year they had, food and genetics.

RE: once a spike always a spike?
 

don't really think its true,they have to start out with something, don't think i'll ever see a deer'sfirst set of horns be an 8pt.with good food and genetics,they'll grow

RE: once a spike always a spike?
 

Once a spike, always a spike, is the biggest myth ever concocted!

RE: once a spike always a spike?
 

you have to remember the later in the season a doe concieves the later in the spring the fawns will be born thus leaving them lacking in the antler department for the first season. Some call spikes cull bucks. In my opinion that is a mistake. many studies have shown a spike deer to attain a healthy 8 point rack by its 3 1/2 year mark. I know this for sure a spike will never get bigger if it's killed. Let him go so he can grow, shoot a doe for meat.

RE: once a spike always a spike?
 

Several truths regarding spikes: Most spikes (90+%) are 1.5 year old deer. Spikes will grow in subsequent years into better racks. On RARE occasions, spikes can grow truly impressive antlers as a mature buck.

However, taken on average, 1.5 year old deer with FORKED antlers grow better B&C scores at maturity than 1.5 year old buck spikes.

RE: once a spike always a spike?
 

In the latest issue of Deer and Deer Hunting they had a pic of the same buck for 12 years. It was a spike for the first picture and grew into a 170 class buck. Its peak years being between 5 1/2 and 8 1/2.

RE: once a spike always a spike?
 

I agree - the biggest Myth in deer history is Shoot a Spike to clean up the gene pool.Rare exceptions to prove any different.

RE: once a spike always a spike?
 

Exactly !
this is why on big spreads that are managed, spikes are shot. not the best genes.
I have seen a 1 1/2 yr old 8 pointer

RE: once a spike always a spike?
 

I respect your opinion, but I disagree. The data in Texas is very compelling and not at all ambiguous. Data from the Kerr wildlife study, studying deer over 26 years, is clear. Recent deer capture data is reaching the same conclusion as the Kerr study. I invite you to visit the Texas Parks and Wildlife website and read the Kerr Wildlife study in its entirety.

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild...er/index.phtml

Read the pdf article titled "Understanding Spike Buck Harvest". Warning, it's over 100 pages and can get technical, but the summary pages are very compelling.

I didn't say that spikes never become good bucks. Everyone can cite the rare example of a spike becoming a record buck. But when taken as a whole, this is a very RARE event. In managing for the whole herd, one should manage for the usual not the UNususal.

This is not an easy issue, and I'm a little surprised to see a moderator weigh in with such a heavy opinion as to call something a "MYTH" when many biologists consider this area a tough one.

I know my wildlife biologist and several others in Texas firmly believe 1.5 year old spikes are inferior to their forked antlered brethren, based on data, not the rare exception.

I am NOT advocating the harvest of all spikes without some context. I think that under the right management, and if your situation allows for it, it can make good sense.

RE: once a spike always a spike?
 

I respect your opinion and that of the Texas study.Texas is an entirely different region and should not by any means dictate or become the last word on a nat'l leval on the subject of Spikes the genetics etc....etc..

I've read numerous studies,opinions,comments and attended seminars where this very subject was discussed by QDMA biologists from the nat'l down to regional leval.
I respect there opinions no matter what some or many here might think.There is nothing in stone that states all Spikes are inferior or should be culled.As many guys here will attest to many many spikes mature into 6-8-10pnts in 2nd year.

BTW - moderators are allowed to use the word myth.ThE word "myth" was NOT intended to discredit any study on the subject.There are hunters that firmly believe ALL spikes are inferior - shoot em.That is a heavy opinion and a unfounded myth.

RE: once a spike always a spike?
 

I would have to agree that most spikes are born a little late and should be allowed to grow at least another year or so before harvesting them. I harvested a nice 8 point 1 1/2 year old deer this year. Great genetics!!

RE: once a spike always a spike?
 

I also agree that almost every spike is capable of growing an impressive set of antlers at some point in his life. However, major research including that done by the QDMA does seem to suggest that spike bucks overall do not grow as big of racks as yearling 6 pointers. I still would not advocate shooting spike bucks.

RE: once a spike always a spike?
 

So you would let the spikes go, but shot a 1.5 year old with 8 points???? That's high grading your herd. Keep that up and you'll have plenty of spikes to view because that's what you'll be encouraging to do all the breeding.

Even if a spike buck is that way because he was born late, IN GENERAL, he still will not catch up to that 1.5 year old 8 point.

I advocate letting the better 1.5 year old bucks walk, and IF you are able to harvest 1.5 year olds in your harvest plan, spikes would be the ones to shoot.

RE: once a spike always a spike?
 

Kind of getting hot in here, isn't it?

RE: once a spike always a spike?
 

I know there are studies that lean both ways, but I'll stick with it being a myth! And besides, we're not really talking "book" deer here! Just "good" racks, and at times, even high scorer's!
Basically, older equals better! Plus, we're talking mostly about late-born bucks, not 1 1/2 year olds! I don't think that you can really judge a cull before 2 1/2. You'll never know what he could be, if he's dead at 1 1/2!
Along the same lines, I've read were Texas is adding about a dozen more counties to the 13" and forked horn rules, next season! Again, its the "let 'em go, and let 'em grow," theory.

RE: once a spike always a spike?
 

Not quite right on the theory in Texas.

Texas is doing away with the 6 points on an antler rule and defining the criteria as (1) at least one unbranched antler OR (2) 13" or greater spread. I understand the 13" or greater rule to protect young bucks, but why allow the harvest of a buck with an unbranched antler (read spike)?

Because Texas biologists at the TPWD think spikes have less antler potential.

Read the whole debate at http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild..._restrictions/

RE: once a spike always a spike?
 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree! It is certainly a hot, and debatable topic!
I think that you'd have to agree that it would be better to protect the spikes, than the old "East Tex" theory of "shoot all the bucks, and protect all the does!"

I've just come to believe that "cull," is a very over-used word! Some folks wouldn't know a real "cull," if it gored them in the a$$!

RE: once a spike always a spike?
 

Im glad this topic was posted because I was wanting to get opinions on this topic also. I have seen 5 spikes in 3 days. Needless only 3 of them are left. But I still don't know about this topic. I had an older gentleman tell me this weekend that it was because of all the pea's they had been eating. Something that was in them. I don't know about that though.

RE: once a spike always a spike?
 

I cant speak for all regions, compelling evidence and rare exceptions, but I will tell you this. I know for sure that a spike, standing there all by itself, does NOT offer you enough evidence or argument either way. You have to also know its age. Anyone with SOUND deer management skills knows that theres different types of spikes, age as well as health. In captivity we routinely see spikes go on to become exceptional bucks. Why? Simple. They started from genetically desirable strains, and we knew their age. Thats hard to do in the wild, though.

In the wild, if I see ANY yearling, I wouldnt shoot, IF the ground you hunt can support the numbers. If you are at capacity already, yes, shoot all small inferior bucks if you want, to help the larger ones feed better. If your herd numbers are ok, allow ALL young bucks another year to grow. Theres gotta be some "wait and see" in the wild, assuming we dont truly know their age and background. Most guys however, dont have such a strict program in place, without exceptions though.